FB: American Rivers Conference

[BeaverOfYore]

SK..Here is what I am saying.  Most kids quit after their freshman year for two reasons.  It did not work out (they got there butts whipped on the practice squad) or secondly they did not see the playing time they thought they would (lack of sticking something out).  I completely agree with looking for the kid who wants to beat out 130 others.  In todays world these kids are primadonas who have "feelings".  Its a load a crap I know but honestly that is a tough pill to swallow to know there role and be a part of a team.  How many of this years recruiting class at the burg a still around vs. how many came to camp.  My point was that the conf. is getting more and more competitive each year.  A popular pitch why sit on the bench at Wartburg for two years when you can play for us right away.  We know its out there and we have all heard it.  So taking down the rosters would elimiate the kids actually seeing the teams depth.  So if Loras is talking to a kid and says look at the evil empires rosters and how deep they are at OL look at our you can play right.  Now if the kid can go home and see this on the internet he has proof, if he can not see it then he wonders. 
We all know we are in the age of techy gadgets and internet research and a lot of decisions are formed on the internet.  This might be weak in some regards but I atleast watned to further explain why I think this way.  Take it for what you want. 

No, I get where you're coming from.  There are quite a few kids that come into Wartburg as freshmen and don't make it.  The 2006 seniors jump to mind immediately.  These guys came in with upwards of 100 freshmen but there were only about 10 or 12 seniors on the roster three years later.  It happens to every class and at every IIAC school, just to varying degrees.  And it is a damned shame to see kids with talent that grow heads too big for themselves and think they're getting "screwed" when the PT isn't there.  There have been a bunch of guys that stopped playing after their freshman or sophomore years at Wartburg that it would have been nice to still have by the time they were seniors.  Just how it goes.
As far as the recruiting angle, 90% of the kids that Wartburg recruits see a game live and in person.  If seeing the 100+ black jerseys on the home sideline at Walston-Hoover doesn't give the kids an indication of how full the roster is from year to year, then I really doubt they'd be able to get that impression from an online roster.

Agreeded.  But I will add that a lot of kids see games at Cornell, BV, Dubque, and Luther, and all the other teams in the conference.  They can see what their sidelines are made up oof as well.  Anyway you slice this could be part conspiracy theory and part truth. 

I have to agree with Klop on this one.  I know some high school seniors who looked at WB and were turned off by the number of guys on the roster, but not because of their chances to play.  They think that at a school like WB you're basically another brick in the wall, part of an endless stream of talent force-fed into a winning machine.  At BV or another lower-tier school, they think they can be part of "that class"--the group who comes in and turns a program around.  It's not being a pussy or being afraid of competition--they want to win as much as anyone and will work their tails off to achieve that goal.  They would just find it more personally fulfilling to be part of the group that made a difference in launching a normally mediocre team to the top of the conference and starting a new chapter for the program.  I don't think that's anything that should turn a coach off.

[Floyd in Iowa City]

Ok, conference questions...since I don't really feel like doing anymore work today...

What will be the conference standings for next season?

Who will Luther hire for their new coach?

Who is your schools rival and why is your school better than them?

Any schools have a coach on the hot seat?

Which teams improve next year?

Which teams take a step back next year?

Which teams stay right where they were next year?

I too decided to throw in the towel for work (at least until the high school hockey game tonight at 7:30).  These are all just a long shot, I really didn't do much research into what teams look like and it will be tough without know the number of freshman and who some of the HS state champ players are on each IIAC team.

Standings:
WARTBURG
CENTRAL
LUTHER (what am I thinking?)
COE
BVU
LORAS
SIMPSON
CORNELL
UD

Luther Coach:
Maybe Sportsknight can apply?

Rival:
Luther - cause their softball team could beat up their baseball team


Improve:
I didn't put Cornell on the bottom...and Luther 3rd?!?  They will need to get a strong RB, but with the right coach I think they could be a contender

Step Back:
UD...unless they can find a replacement for Jackson, he was huge reason why they had the success they did this year.

Stay in Place:
The Knights and Dutch both look to make the playoffs again.

I thought the 2007 Luther Baseball team tied for the conference title, won the IIAC tourney title and made the NCAA Regionals as well?  I know the 2007 Luther Softball team won the conference title, lost to Wartburg for the IIAC tourney, and made regionals as well, but I am missing your point?

What does that say about the Knight Baseball team?  I know they have won or tied for all of those conference titles in recent years, but they got beat up by a Norse team that you say could be beat up by the Norse Softball team?  You should be more proud of your teams than that!

Go Norse Baseball!

[sportsknight]

Guess its all a matter of perspective.  I never played ball in college, but I was on a very mediocre team in high school.  If I had the ability to play in college, I think I would have rather sat for a couple years on a good team than play right away and go through more losing.  Just me though.

As far as the 2nd choice question:  I was pretty well sold on Wartburg after attending a broadcasting camp the summer before my junior year of high school.  I applied a couple of other places to get an idea of how the financial aid compared, but in my mind it was Wartburg all the way.  Looking back on it, if Wartburg wasn't on my radar or didn't have the communications program that they do, I probably would have ended up at UW-Platteville.  They had a pretty good program as well, and the school is actually a half hour closer to my hometown than Waverly, but the out-of-state tuition took them out of consideration.

While I'm here, I just want to wish good luck to former Wartburg player Mitch Moore and UW-Whitewater this weekend.  If the Mount is gonna fall, it might as well be to a team with a Wartburg/IIAC connection.

[BeaverOfYore]

I've got an interesting question to pose to everyone:

Which IIAC school would have been your 2nd choice to attend, if you couldn't have went to the one you did?  Why was it your 2nd choice, and what was the factor that made you go where you did? 

Mine would have been Cornell, until I visited in person.  The "historic campus" sounds cool until you get there and realize it just means they've never renovated.  Then Reasland read the recruiting brochure aloud to me and said, "I always like to do that first--it eliminates a lot of questions."  Then the football player who gave me a tour was obviously experiencing very bad gas that day, which made the lunch of fish sticks even less appetizing.  BV didn't have to do much to beat that experience.

[Floyd in Iowa City]

Ok, conference questions...since I don't really feel like doing anymore work today...

What will be the conference standings for next season?

Who will Luther hire for their new coach?

Who is your schools rival and why is your school better than them?

Any schools have a coach on the hot seat?

Which teams improve next year?

Which teams take a step back next year?

Which teams stay right where they were next year?

2008 STANDINGS

WARTBURG
COE
SIMPSON
CENTRAL
LORAS
DUBUQUE
LUTHER
BUENA VISTA
CORNELL

LUTHERS NEXT COACH

CHARLIE WEISS

OUR BIGGEST RIVALRY

It used to be Upper Iowa when we could have the Porno Bowl:  Cocks vs. Beavers
Now I would have to say Luther.  The game is always tight and we have had their number.  Always a good game.  I remember 4 years ago when the sun started shinning on a terrible day in D-town during a 4th quarter drive only to start raining when Luther got the ball back. 

Fat Charlie is not into player development, especially the younger players.  He just thought he could spend every week working on new schemes for the upcoming opponents and that the improvements with blocking and tackling would just happen magically!  It worked well when he inherited experienced players when he first took over that job.

I didn't know we were B.V.'s rival as well!  No wonder the Norse lost all of those games to the Beavers in recent years!  

I always thought it was fun to play Loras in various sports.  When I was an athlete at Luther the coaches would talk about the rivalries over the years with Upper Iowa, Wartburg, and St. Olaf, but the Oles were about the only opponent where it was a respectful rivalry at the time.

The Wartburg players were always better than the students as far as being respectful at the time.  I had more respect for how Wartburg did things on the field than I did for some of the things I saw from Upper Iowa or Billy Penn.

[BeaverOfYore]

Ok, conference questions...since I don't really feel like doing anymore work today...

What will be the conference standings for next season?

Who will Luther hire for their new coach?

Who is your schools rival and why is your school better than them?

Any schools have a coach on the hot seat?

Which teams improve next year?

Which teams take a step back next year?

Which teams stay right where they were next year?

2008 STANDINGS

WARTBURG
COE
SIMPSON
CENTRAL
LORAS
DUBUQUE
LUTHER
BUENA VISTA
CORNELL

LUTHERS NEXT COACH

CHARLIE WEISS

OUR BIGGEST RIVALRY

It used to be Upper Iowa when we could have the Porno Bowl:  Cocks vs. Beavers
Now I would have to say Luther.  The game is always tight and we have had their number.  Always a good game.  I remember 4 years ago when the sun started shinning on a terrible day in D-town during a 4th quarter drive only to start raining when Luther got the ball back. 

Fat Charlie is not into player development, especially the younger players.  He just thought he could spend every week working on new schemes for the upcoming opponents and that the improvements with blocking and tackling would just happen magically!  It worked well when he inherited experienced players when he first took over that job.

I didn't know we were B.V.'s rival as well!  No wonder the Norse lost all of those games to the Beavers in recent years! 

I always thought it was fun to play Loras in various sports.  When I was an athlete at Luther the coaches would talk about the rivalries over the years with Upper Iowa, Wartburg, and St. Olaf, but the Oles were about the only opponent where it was a respectful rivalry at the time.

The Wartburg players were always better than the students as far as being respectful at the time.  I had more respect for how Wartburg did things on the field than I did for some of the things I saw from Upper Iowa or Billy Penn.

I'd say Loras has also become somewhat of a rival for BV, although that might change now that many of the guys who played under Osty are gone.

[Floyd in Iowa City]

OK, keep this information close at hand so you can remind me next fall how badly I predicted the 2008 season.  

Answers to doolittledog's questions:
1) Conference standings: Wartburg-Central-Luther-Simpson-Coe-Dubuque-Loras-Buena Vista-Cornell
2) Luther coach: Somebody off the Wisc. Whitewater staff
3) Biggest rival: Luther, because tradition dictates that is the way it is.  Any further explanation would probably be politically incorrect.
4) Hot seat-Nobody.  Some would be at D1.
5-6-7) Who gets better, worse, etc: Actually things stay about the same.  No team will have a regular season record that is plus or minus more than 2 regular season games.

Luther lost a lot from an offense that was not as balanced as the 2005 or 2006 seasons.  They still have some talent on that roster, but they need to prove that next year will be anything more than a .500 type season.  Having said that, for all of the lost senior starters on offense it really comes down to losing Sherden and Stavast as there still are experienced players at RB and WR.  The OL also had some depth this year and perhaps the OL coach will be a little stronger next year.

A coach that was on the Whitewater staff for a long time was voted by the players this week as the top candidate to replace Coach Hefty.  Only underclassmen were allowed to vote, and the Whitewater candidate won by 4 votes over another candidate that is currently a coordinator at another consistently national ranked school.  I believe the search committee is still looking to get this done before Christmas.  The one candidate is from the offensive side of the ball and has 6 years as a college head coach.  The other candidate has been a defensive guy for the most part and has never been a college head coach.  The offensive guy is older as well.

The person I have been talking to clearly likes the Whitewater candidate.  I am interested to see if that is the direction that the school heads towards.

Might not be a bad move to have a young deffensive minded HC running the sidelines next year for the Norse.  Now is the coach from WW still on the staff or has he since moved on? 
What school is the other candidate currently coaching at if you can divulge?

The hire will happen pretty soon, so I don't want to say too much as of yet.  Both candidates have strong ties to the WIAC in recent years (among the elite programs in the league).  The Whitewater coach is not on the current staff, but was a part of the recent success there.

[New Storm]

SK..Here is what I am saying.  Most kids quit after their freshman year for two reasons.  It did not work out (they got there butts whipped on the practice squad) or secondly they did not see the playing time they thought they would (lack of sticking something out).  I completely agree with looking for the kid who wants to beat out 130 others.  In todays world these kids are primadonas who have "feelings".  Its a load a crap I know but honestly that is a tough pill to swallow to know there role and be a part of a team.  How many of this years recruiting class at the burg a still around vs. how many came to camp.  My point was that the conf. is getting more and more competitive each year.  A popular pitch why sit on the bench at Wartburg for two years when you can play for us right away.  We know its out there and we have all heard it.  So taking down the rosters would elimiate the kids actually seeing the teams depth.  So if Loras is talking to a kid and says look at the evil empires rosters and how deep they are at OL look at our you can play right.  Now if the kid can go home and see this on the internet he has proof, if he can not see it then he wonders. 
We all know we are in the age of techy gadgets and internet research and a lot of decisions are formed on the internet.  This might be weak in some regards but I atleast watned to further explain why I think this way.  Take it for what you want. 

No, I get where you're coming from.  There are quite a few kids that come into Wartburg as freshmen and don't make it.  The 2006 seniors jump to mind immediately.  These guys came in with upwards of 100 freshmen but there were only about 10 or 12 seniors on the roster three years later.  It happens to every class and at every IIAC school, just to varying degrees.  And it is a damned shame to see kids with talent that grow heads too big for themselves and think they're getting "screwed" when the PT isn't there.  There have been a bunch of guys that stopped playing after their freshman or sophomore years at Wartburg that it would have been nice to still have by the time they were seniors.  Just how it goes.
As far as the recruiting angle, 90% of the kids that Wartburg recruits see a game live and in person.  If seeing the 100+ black jerseys on the home sideline at Walston-Hoover doesn't give the kids an indication of how full the roster is from year to year, then I really doubt they'd be able to get that impression from an online roster.

Agreeded.  But I will add that a lot of kids see games at Cornell, BV, Dubque, and Luther, and all the other teams in the conference.  They can see what their sidelines are made up oof as well.  Anyway you slice this could be part conspiracy theory and part truth. 

I have to agree with Klop on this one.  I know some high school seniors who looked at WB and were turned off by the number of guys on the roster, but not because of their chances to play.  They think that at a school like WB you're basically another brick in the wall, part of an endless stream of talent force-fed into a winning machine.  At BV or another lower-tier school, they think they can be part of "that class"--the group who comes in and turns a program around.  It's not being a pussy or being afraid of competition--they want to win as much as anyone and will work their tails off to achieve that goal.  They would just find it more personally fulfilling to be part of the group that made a difference in launching a normally mediocre team to the top of the conference and starting a new chapter for the program.  I don't think that's anything that should turn a coach off.

I agree some kids want to be in on a team that turns it around ,it takes a special kid and that is why there are turnarounds, hopefully some of the lower tier teams can recruit these type of kids.

[Dsquared]

PH...

If the kid that plays for UCLA doesn't catch a break in the pros, after watching 2 straight nights of promos for the NEW American Gladiators, it sounds as though his physique and physicality would make him a prime candidate for them

[footballdaddy]

Congrats Heys,I'm sure you're as proud of your son as I would be of mine. I hope he continues to improve over the next two years. Just not too much. j/k I had to add that. Seriously, I hope Cornell can improve. They will just make the IIAC all that much better. Like the saying goes"The sun can't shine on one dog's rear all the time."

And WTG Klop on the karma.Help me out when you can, ok?

[footballdaddy]

As far as Wartburg's roster  goes, any player who is being seriously recruited will be told about the projected depth at their position. I'm sue this happens at any school. It was for my son at the schools he was recruited by, and there was no evidence that he was told anything but the truth by each of the schools. 

[BeaverOfYore]

As far as Wartburg's roster  goes, any player who is being seriously recruited will be told about the projected depth at their position. I'm sue this happens at any school. It was for my son at the schools he was recruited by, and there was no evidence that he was told anything but the truth by each of the schools. 

How can any D-III school say with any real degree of certainty who will be at a given position on the depth chart until mid-summer?  Players do not sign a letter of intent, and you're not "committed" until you show up for camp.  I know a lot of kids who have changed their minds or transferred right up to and even during camp, so projecting depth during the winter or spring seems somewhat dishonest.  Another factor is that an upperclassman might be moved to cover a deficiency in a particular area.  I think projecting depth might be part of the reason that some kids who quit were deluded about playing time in the first place. 

[footballdaddy]

Well i would hope that a coach would have a good idea of returning starters and those who had significant playing time who are returning. No one can be absolutely certain of course (Did I hear something that sounded like Suckow?)   

[Charlie Kohawk]

I think it's interesting that Coe is consistently thought of as part of the top tier in the conference. Looking back, the last 5 years have shown that they are not quite at the "contender" level in my mind.  Check it out:

2003 - Coe went 5-5, losses to Simpson, Luther, Wartburg, BV and Loras
2004 - Coe went 7-3, losses to UD, Wartburg
2005 - Coe went 9-2, conf loss to Wartburg
2006 - Coe went 7-3, losses to Central, Wartburg and Loras
2007 - Coe went 7-3, losses to UD, Wartburg and Central

As I am looking at this, it strikes me that outside an outstanding 2005 season, which included a playoff appearance, Coe is consistently defeated by Wartburg and UD. I guess I'm wondering how people lump Coe in with the conference contenders every year when they continue to struggle with the same foes.

Thoughts?

With all due respect, Dutchfan1, your logic is flawed. The only team that has "consistently" beaten Coe is Wartburg -- each of the last five years, as your data shows. Losses to UD this year and back in 2004 is no more of a pattern than Coe's losses to Central this year and last or Loras in 06 and 03. Also, your analysis conveniently left of 2002, when Coe, Wartburg and Central were tri-champions and Coe advanced to the second round of the playoffs. Coe has shared a piece of the conference title three out of the last six years and was in the hunt for the past two. That makes them conference contenders in my book.

[BeaverOfYore]

Well i would hope that a coach would have a good idea of returning starters and those who had significant playing time who are returning. No one can be absolutely certain of course (Did I hear something that sounded like Suckow?)   

Ha, Suckow does come to mind.  I know coaches have a fairly good idea, but things can and do change quite often, so I think at can be dangerous for a coach to say too much about depth or playing time because it can create expectations from players that the coach can never meet.