FB: American Rivers Conference

[NorseFan]

Warthog, great post.  You should really consider becoming an admissions counselor. 

[DutchFan2004]

Iowa City Dad,

I forgot to address your question about Central fans at the game this weekend.  I am totally guessing here but I think Central could take as many as 1500-2000 fans.  It's along trip and who knows what the weather will do.  But I would say at a low Central will have 1,000.  GO DUTCH

My comment may have come off badly about Coach MC.  Let me say that he is the biggest reason my son went there.  He was honest with him direct and we felt didn't blow any smoke.  It was just that by the time coach MC had come Wartburg had talked to him alot.  I think any IIAC school is a great institution.  He just has to find the right fit.  Your son will know when he knows.  Thats all I can say.

[Charlie Kohawk]

Maroon&Gold,
I'm looking forward to Saturday as well. It should be great game between two worthy teams. What is the tailgating atmosphere like at Concordia? Are there any nearby watering holes that you'd recommend for Kohawk Nation?

[Already_Gone]

***Alreadygone, check the NCAA championship handbook.  All the information is in there, and nobody is making it up as they go along.***

If you can pull some set criteria from that 'handbook' that explains this selection process in detail, please feel free to pull it and post it.

Otherwise, if it's all the same to you, I'll pass on the reading of the NCAA handbook. I'd rather slam my head against the garage door for a couple of hours.

Btw - 500 to 1,000 extra students between Iowa Conference schools and those in Minny?

Perhaps at your beloved St. John's.

But the vast majority of the Minny D3s are markedly ... markedly ... larger than the biggest Iowa Conference schools.

As far as tuition - you seem to have access to a lot of really neat information. What is the tuition at ... say ... St. Olaf? As compared to ... say ... Dubuque?

The bottom line is - this is all about the Bens. This has nothing to do with rankings or evening out playing fields. The NCAA will make more money from these games being played in the stadiums in the big schools. And that's all the suits and ties truly care about when the day is done.

Finally, seems to me that, since you (and the committee) are pretty sure that the playing fields for Concordia and Coe are basically level and that the former is just flat out better than Coe .. then a simple eight-hour bus ride south and overnight stay in beautiful downtown Cedar Rapids would be of very little concern for the Cobbers.

[IowaCityDad]

To both WartHog and DutchFan,

THANK YOU both for your excellent insights!

For some reason, I failed to mention Wartburg.  They have also recruited him alot this year, and my son is also very interested.  We just haven't made the time to make it there, but he very much wants to.  My older daughter was interested in Wartburg because of the Music program, and we did visit twice, so I am very aware of the excellent academics.  She ended up going to Iowa and is a soph. vocal major.  

I agree wholeheartedly about academics being first consideration.  All of the schools he is considering are strong.  My son was been disgnosed with ADD as a 1st grader, and was on medication up until his soph. year in HS.  He has done a tremendous job dealing with it, but it has affected his GPA in a traditional classroom setting.  His GPA is a very modest 2.72, but he scored a 30 on his ACT and is extremely bright.  This is one of the major reaons we like the Cornell "one class at a time" academic structure.  He is doing an overnight at Cornell later this week.

He is yet undecided on a field of study, but has particular (and wide-ranging) interests in Psychology, Architecture, and Exercise Science.

I do believe we will try to make it to the Central game this Saturday.  I LOVE college football!  I just need to dig up a bright red coat.  My sister in Lincoln could ship us some Husker coats, but I'd NEVER wear them!

Thanks again, and I am very glad I found this board.

[Already_Gone]

***The enrollment thing is a dead issue.  The fact is that neither  WIAC or MIAC teams do much recruiting from the general student body.  It isn't like we hang signs in the dorms saying "Football Tryouts Today." If you're playing football in the WIAC or MIAC it's probably because you were recruited to play before you got there.  Not because we have more students to try out.***

Who's saying ANYTHING about that?

Certainly not me.

The point is this: a school that, for WHATEVER reason, can support a student body twice ... three ... five ... seven times as many as another has a natural advantage.

It goes like this - the Iowa kid who's a good athlete, a good player, but who may not qualify for a PRIVATE school in this state may just end up going to Iowa or Iowa State or UNI and end his football career at that point.

Whereas the same kid in Minnesota and Wisconsin may well be able to - for whatever reason - find a niche at a smaller school in those states. And, ergo, make those teams deeper.

The numbers don't really lie - as much as you'd like them to.

Again - a school that can support a large enrollment is just going to naturally have more of an opportunity to build deeper teams.

And it has NOTHING to do with hanging out signs for try-outs.

***If you want to talk about how unfair our size is you'd have a better argument if you focused it on facilities.  That's an area in which we may have the advantage.***

I would - but they go hand-in-hand.

[DutchFan2004]

Iowa City Dad

Look us up I will have a picture of #10 button on my coat.  I don't have a red coat so I'll probably wear my Iowa coat.  If your son got a 30 on the ACTS he'll be able to handle the load at any college.  Cornell may only have one class at a time but they cover alot of ground every day.  One class my seem easy but the pace of one class is faster than he is used I can guarantee you that.  Look us up if you come up and I'd be happy to chat with you there. 

[johnnie_esq]

Already_gone- I don't see why you're lumping the MIAC with the WIAC if you are discussing the qualification issue.  Because tuition are basically identical between MIAC/IIAC schools, there is no advantage there; and because ACT/SAT scores are, I'll bet, similar in the MIAC, there is no competitive advantage there.  The MIAC's advantage may lie in its proximity to Minneapolis; then again, I'll bet the IIAC squads are equidistant from Chicago and Mpls, so it depends on how you promote it, I guess.

As far as the WIAC schools go, they limit their squads to 100 players.  SJU, despite being 1/3 to 1/5 the size of many of the WIAC schools, has almost 200 on its team.  If the WIAC had no numbers restrictions, I'd agree with you; but that cap does a ton to keep the field somewhat level, as the limitation on depth slows the process down.  That way you don't have incoming frosh who may be 120th on the chart initially but grow into their bodies and make the top 22 by their junior year; in a WIAC program that kid would be cut and have likely found other interests, if he is even recruited at all.

The tuition issue may give an initial advantage to WIAC schools over the MIAC/IIAC, in that it'll be sticker price cheaper, but the drawback is the school has 5 times as many students, and not the alumni support or reputation of Central or SJU, so you, in essence, get what you pay for.  Also, it often takes 5 years to get  through a state school, so you'll pay one extra year that you wouldn't otherwise, so it ends up being about the same. 

With redshirts being gone, I think that MIAC/IIAC is on the same playing field as the WIACers.  Last I checked, the IIAC beat the WIAC rep a few years ago in the playoffs, so what happened since to turn the tables?  If anything, I think the rules changes since make the matchups even more fair than they were before.

IMO, facilities are just as good at private schools, especially those with strong alumni bases (Central, Wartburg, SJU, et al.). I personally would rather play in a facility that is full and lively, not necessarily a huge one which sits half empty.

[kohawk2004]

Iowa City Dad -

I totally agree with DutchFan.  The one class at a time format of Cornell is actually much tougher than it seems (A credit to Cornell).  Dutch was also absolutely right about ACT scores.  If your son can get a 30, he can succeed at any Iowa Conference school.  My only addition is to look for a school with a program that can provide tutors for students in need.  Coe has an Academic Acheivement Program that arranges for students to have tutors for any class they need.  This program is used by plenty of students at Coe, and not necessarily the ones with learning issues.  I was a tutor at Coe and for a few semesters and tutored students with a 2.5 and a 4.0 gpa.

[Already_Gone]

Okay, Johnnie ... I can sense this is going nowhere.

I've made a very obvious point - D3 schools that can support five times the enrollment of other D3 schools have a natural advantage.

You reject that theory.

You tell me, all in all, things are just about equal on the D3 level.

I disagree ... but ... fine.

But ... tell me ... why, in your opinion, is the Iowa Conference champion traveling eight hours to play the runner-up in your conference for a first round game?

[DutchFan2004]

Kohawk 2004,


Good point I forgot to point the tutors out at Central too.  I also know that Wartburg has them.  The one common thing you will find in the IIAC is academic excellance.  That is why I like the IIAC they are committed to getting their kids their degree.  That's a huge difference between public schools and the IIAC.  The IIAC takes pride in getting the kids done in 4 years.  If you are looking that 5th year or so sure adds some expense on the back side of college expenses. 

[Pat Coleman]

Got us good there johnnie_esq - Who are you,  some coach from SJU that has all this info about the selections?  Must be all that extra time you have up their in the artic......   This board is for fans!  Tell us more oh wise one. 

Gotta love playoff time, when all the newbies show up and run their mouth.

[Pat Coleman]

But ... tell me ... why, in your opinion, is the Iowa Conference champion traveling eight hours to play the runner-up in your conference for a first round game?

In my opinion, it's because
1) Concordia-Moorhead is a better team than Coe.
2) Coe's only loss is to a two-loss team, Moorhead's only loss is to an unbeaten team.

[dutchfan1]

Wow -- miss a day, and you miss a lot in here!!

First of all, Congratulations Coe and Central for their playoff berths!  Best of luck -- represent the IIAC well. Each school has a tough road -- I have tremendous respect for each of the first round foes.

IowaCityDad -- welcome aboard! You're joining the board at a very exciting time of the season! Congrats on having a son who is looking at D3 schools in the state. It's been said, but I would like to reiterate that each school has unique strengths to offer any student/athlete. Personally, I'm excited that your son is considering playing football for the Dutch! Make sure to heed the advice already given -- at the D3 level, the emphasis is definitely on the student part of "student/athlete." That being said, he will be able to get the assistance he needs to succeed at any of the schools in the conference. Make sure he attends the school that is the right "fit" for him. I'll look forward to seeing you in the stands in coming years. Drop me a line (at the email on my profile) if you have any questions, as I am more than happy to answer specifics about Central.

Already_gone -- can we drop the discussion about school size unfairly stacking a particular conference? In some ways, yes, a larger school can be an advantage. In other ways, the schools in the WIAC are disadvantaged -- they are beat up week after week in conference play, making success in the off-season more difficult. Irregardless, we shouldn't be whining about it, but welcoming the opportunity to play them. My definition of a champion is defeating the best -- we can't be the best unless we play the best and really test ourselves. It makes our job more difficult, yes, but the rewards that much sweeter. Deal with it.

Finally, Lance, what's the status on the pre-season pick-em?

GO CENTRAL!!!!

[Already_Gone]

Your objectivity is underwhelming, Mr. Pat Coleman.

Would be interested in an explanation of *why* you hold that opinion. Beyond the tired "match the score" routine.

Btw - next time you're on ESPN ... smile more.