FB: American Rivers Conference

[Ash Park]

Sorry for the long post, but I am extremely tired of Cornell not winning in much of anything and wish the administration would change some things...like their attitude. ccram33s post really got me going.To be a winner you at least have to have a winners attitude..oh and it might help if everyone has it..not just a few people.

[Ash Park]

While yes my dream was to play college football and I fulfilled that, it was also to win a lot of games and championships. We did win some games, but not anywhere close to where I dreamed of and set goals for as far as winning. Some dreams and goals never come true or are achieved.

I do realize Cornells position as a bottom feeder but maybe as a WHOLE team or a WHOLE athletic program they need to raise their standards a bit.

[SpeedKills84]

Yeah I'm going to go ahead and say that even though the administration and some students think Cornell is that much above every school in the IIAC in academics they are not. I believe every school in this conference is a good school and you can get a good education at any of them.....as much as it hurts to say this..even at Coe

I agree I have never heard anyone say anything about thinking Wartburg players will be going to the NFL. Cornell might have higher admission standards than everyone else in the conference but that is the only difference I see and I have known people who got into college with a 18 or lower on their act or below a 3.0 gpa out of high school who went to an IIAC school and actually earned better grades than in high school.

In my opinion the administration at Cornell needs to wake up and realize they are not an Ivy league school. Their standards at Cornell are too high. The classes their are not any tougher than any other IIAC school. I had friends who transferred in and were thinking that it was going to be tough then realized that it wasn't bad at all.

Part of the problem at Cornell and sorry ccram33 no offense to you is that people are too complacent with losing. They say things like oh well at least we have good academics....and....oh wait. Why not be like well we are good at academics, athletics, music, theatre etc. I know of a couple schools in this conference that can say that. I don't think I even need to list them.

Wow.  Cornell is not better academically than any other school?  The classes aren't tough?  I would think Cornell has slightly better academics than a couple schools at least.  Sorry UD.  I guess if you're a Kin major its not hard.  If you can tell me that P Chem, Calc, Biochem, Programming, Econ, etc. isnt hard I guess you belong in Mensa.  Complacent with losing?  I would argue thats about 5% of the athletic population.  And those people are so damn awful they just don't care.  I cared about how we did...my friends cared....my teammates cared.  Some of us had more success than others, but I never recall someone happy about losing.  There's no way the school's standards are too high.  There were plenty of people there during my time that ate bowls of rocks for breakfast and lost three teeth before realizing it.  I can't even begin to name the people who didn't make it out in four years....Cornell is a good academic school and they hold themselves as one.  It's just too bad the athletics has to suffer.   

[tinman08]

Cornell is not better academically than any other school?  I am also a little surprised with those words.  I guess Forbes must've messed up then when they listed Cornell as one of the top 25 liberal arts schools.  This article sums it up: 

http://news.cornellcollege.edu/2008/05/05/new-rankings-in-forbes-put-cornell-in-top-25/

[Ash Park]

Cornell is not better academically than any other school?  I am also a little surprised with those words.  I guess Forbes must've messed up then when they listed Cornell as one of the top 25 liberal arts schools.  This article sums it up: 

http://news.cornellcollege.edu/2008/05/05/new-rankings-in-forbes-put-cornell-in-top-25/

My words were that they are not that much better. Do I think Cornell is a better academic institution than a UD sure I do, but to be honest I know people who have gone to just about every school in the IIAC and there are tough classes at every school. Do I think Cornell is the best academic instituition in the conference? yeah I do, but do I think we are that much better where we should start using the saying when we lose hey its ok you are going to be working for us some day...um no. C'mon this is the school I graduated from. Of course I'm proud of where I went to school but not happy about the administration there. I believe that Coe, Luther and Central are all excellent academic institutions and can be listed up there with Cornell. I would just like to see Cornell realize that those schools can do both, why can't we.

[Ash Park]

Yeah I'm going to go ahead and say that even though the administration and some students think Cornell is that much above every school in the IIAC in academics they are not. I believe every school in this conference is a good school and you can get a good education at any of them.....as much as it hurts to say this..even at Coe

I agree I have never heard anyone say anything about thinking Wartburg players will be going to the NFL. Cornell might have higher admission standards than everyone else in the conference but that is the only difference I see and I have known people who got into college with a 18 or lower on their act or below a 3.0 gpa out of high school who went to an IIAC school and actually earned better grades than in high school.

In my opinion the administration at Cornell needs to wake up and realize they are not an Ivy league school. Their standards at Cornell are too high. The classes their are not any tougher than any other IIAC school. I had friends who transferred in and were thinking that it was going to be tough then realized that it wasn't bad at all.

Part of the problem at Cornell and sorry ccram33 no offense to you is that people are too complacent with losing. They say things like oh well at least we have good academics....and....oh wait. Why not be like well we are good at academics, athletics, music, theatre etc. I know of a couple schools in this conference that can say that. I don't think I even need to list them.

Wow.  Cornell is not better academically than any other school?  The classes aren't tough?  I would think Cornell has slightly better academics than a couple schools at least.  Sorry UD.  I guess if you're a Kin major its not hard.  If you can tell me that P Chem, Calc, Biochem, Programming, Econ, etc. isnt hard I guess you belong in Mensa.  Complacent with losing?  I would argue thats about 5% of the athletic population.  And those people are so damn awful they just don't care.  I cared about how we did...my friends cared....my teammates cared.  Some of us had more success than others, but I never recall someone happy about losing.  There's no way the school's standards are too high.  There were plenty of people there during my time that ate bowls of rocks for breakfast and lost three teeth before realizing it.  I can't even begin to name the people who didn't make it out in four years....Cornell is a good academic school and they hold themselves as one.  It's just too bad the athletics has to suffer.   

I bet a majority of those people actually had good test scores but socially and common sense smart they had none. As for the people who didn't make it out in four years...it is becoming more and more common for people to go an extra semester or year everywhere. I can't even begin to name the people who had to go a little bit longer because of switching majors or transferring in or having to drop a block for illness which is a luxury at Cornell I believe because you don't lose as much as you would in the semester plan. Again I'm not saying people are necesarily happy with losing but complacent just kind of like blah whatever another loss. I don't know what percentage that is and you threw out 5% but I'm not going to begin to guess one but all I know is that it is too many. I know you had success there but that was pretty much all individual success in track and I'm not taking anything away from that at all. Yes I love my alma mater but they are doing things wrong or at least were...I'm not sure what is going to happen with a new ad and how much pull he will have. It is possible to have high standards both academically and athletically.

[Purple Heys]

Yeah I'm going to go ahead and say that even though the administration and some students think Cornell is that much above every school in the IIAC in academics they are not. I believe every school in this conference is a good school and you can get a good education at any of them.....as much as it hurts to say this..even at Coe

I agree I have never heard anyone say anything about thinking Wartburg players will be going to the NFL. Cornell might have higher admission standards than everyone else in the conference but that is the only difference I see and I have known people who got into college with a 18 or lower on their act or below a 3.0 gpa out of high school who went to an IIAC school and actually earned better grades than in high school.

In my opinion the administration at Cornell needs to wake up and realize they are not an Ivy league school. Their standards at Cornell are too high. The classes their are not any tougher than any other IIAC school. I had friends who transferred in and were thinking that it was going to be tough then realized that it wasn't bad at all.

Part of the problem at Cornell and sorry ccram33 no offense to you is that people are too complacent with losing. They say things like oh well at least we have good academics....and....oh wait. Why not be like well we are good at academics, athletics, music, theatre etc. I know of a couple schools in this conference that can say that. I don't think I even need to list them.

Jr. don't like losing, nor do I.  There are a lot of young men and coaches on that team that share that sentiment.

[Purple Heys]

Sorry for the long post, but I am extremely tired of Cornell not winning in much of anything and wish the administration would change some things...like their attitude. ccram33s post really got me going.To be a winner you at least have to have a winners attitude..oh and it might help if everyone has it..not just a few people.

I guess I just don't get it.

I have never seen a college administrator take the field.  So how is it they are the root cause?

Plenty of places with high academic standards find ways to compete...and do not most IIAC schools have relatively high standards compared to a State school?

Look, I don't like losing, Jr doesn't like it...but football is part of the means to an end.  His degree will be the most valued thing he takes from this. 

Even if Cornell doesn't win another game for the rest of his career, and he would hate that, I believe that it will not defeat him.  For his 4 years he will have worked as hard as any kid that played at Wartburg or Central or Mount Union.  I see that in other Cornell kids too.

That is what makes me proud.

[DutchHawk]

I was reading the press release from Central today and says they played 20 Sophs and 11 Freshman Saturday...lost by 2 points on a last minute field goal. I dont know about everyone else but that sure is a good thing to see us go neck and neck with the pre-season league favorites with that many starters returning, all the while having over 31 Fresh and Sophs on the field all day.

Scary for the rest of the conference

[TrainsEqualCrowdNoise]

I'll have to agree with both Ash and Speed here even though they are arguing two differing view points.  The majority of students at Cornell are more concerned with which piece of the human chess board they will get to be this week or what type of protest against society they can make than the outcomes of the athletic teams.  The administration is much the same, and does not seem to feel that athletics are as important to the success of the college.  Cornell does not need to lower its academic standards in order for there to be success produced throughout the athletic department.  What needs to be done is a commitment towards athletics in the ways of funding and general awareness throughout campus.  I would not be shocked to hear that there is a rather large groups of staff and students that don't even know which athletic teams Cornell actually fields.

Speed is right, that those who are apart of the athletic community are far from complacent with losing.  The athletes at Cornell are just as determined and dedicated as any in the conference.    However, these athletes only make up a small percentage of the population of the student body, and the most of the rest could care less.  I don't have much first hand knowledge about how this is at other schools, but what I can tell from fan support and attendance, this doesn't seem to occur at the other schools in the conference.  So in essence both of you fellas are correct.

There has to be a reason that programs that are consistently in the top of the conference do so well, and not just in football but all sports.  That reason is that these schools give their athletic programs the funding and tools to be the best.  Wartburg just created a new "multi" center.  Central just upgraded its field.  Their athletes have the equipment and support they need to maximize their potential.  I remember the first time we played at Luther and traveled from the locker rooms to the field.  We passed by the weight room and looked in and I thought to myself, "Wow, that place is huge.  Why is our weight room so tiny?"  Cornell has made a small attempt to remodel its facilities, but by no means has it taken the type of commitment that other schools have made.

Basically, I think it all comes down to priorities.  Until the school's administration decides to see athletics as a way to increase enrollment and as a cheap way to advertise, the athletics at Cornell will never consistently be good.  We may have our All-american wrestlers, or all conference performers, but we will never consistently year to year have them.  But in the end, the thing that matters most is that we received an education and that we received our degrees.  This athletic success would just have been icing on the cake.

I apologize for being so long winded....

[DBQ1965]

Since Ash Park tossed out Cornell and UD in the same breath ... let me say that my UD education prepared me well for my two master's degrees and a doctorate which followed.

[doolittledog]

Since Ash Park tossed out Cornell and UD in the same breath ... let me say that my UD education prepared me well for my two master's degrees and a doctorate which followed.

Yes, and when I was at my frat reunion this summer I noticed I was there with a doctor, a dentist, airline pilots, a Lt. Col. in the Army, a bank vice president and so on.  Another thing I can think of is when I would come home from school 20 odd years ago and talk to friends of mine from high school.  I had friends at all three state schools and each of the IIAC schools.  Most classes we took were very similar.  In fact, most of the Gen Ed classes like macro and micro econ and the accounting classes had the same text books at each school. 

Hayden Fry had a great quote..."Sports is such a great vehicle to promote and bring recognition to not only the whole university, but the state."  I think that is especially relevant at the D3 level.  When I hear stories of the BV faculty printing a book entitled "100 years of meatheads" or when I read the story of Mt. Senario College that dropped athletics so they could focus on academics...only to see the school close shortly after.  I think sometimes school administrations need to be reminded that although the idea of college is to get a degree, sports can be used as advertising for the school.  While athletics does take up part of your budget, I think it more than makes up for it with increased enrollments.  Another thing to consider is alumni donations.  Alumni that can look back and remember all the extra curricular activities they were in are more likely to donate money back to their school.  If they did nothing but go to class for 4 years I doubt they will be as likely to donate to their school.  UD has figured this out.  Hopefully, Cornell can figure this out as well.  You don't have to be winning conference championships, but being competitive in most sports and putting some money into your facilities can work wonders to student moral and alumni giving. 

[KCDutch]

Yes, and when I was at my frat reunion this summer I noticed I was there with a doctor, a dentist, airline pilots, a Lt. Col. in the Army, a bank vice president and so on.  Another thing I can think of is when I would come home from school 20 odd years ago and talk to friends of mine from high school.  I had friends at all three state schools and each of the IIAC schools.  Most classes we took were very similar.  In fact, most of the Gen Ed classes like macro and micro econ and the accounting classes had the same text books at each school. 

Few employees at a bank are not VPs..........not to diminish being a vp at a bank, but the bank I work for has thousands of VPs.

[Klopenhiemer]

Since Ash Park tossed out Cornell and UD in the same breath ... let me say that my UD education prepared me well for my two master's degrees and a doctorate which followed.

Yes, and when I was at my frat reunion this summer I noticed I was there with a doctor, a dentist, airline pilots, a Lt. Col. in the Army, a bank vice president and so on.  Another thing I can think of is when I would come home from school 20 odd years ago and talk to friends of mine from high school.  I had friends at all three state schools and each of the IIAC schools.  Most classes we took were very similar.  In fact, most of the Gen Ed classes like macro and micro econ and the accounting classes had the same text books at each school. 

Hayden Fry had a great quote..."Sports is such a great vehicle to promote and bring recognition to not only the whole university, but the state."  I think that is especially relevant at the D3 level.  When I hear stories of the BV faculty printing a book entitled "100 years of meatheads" or when I read the story of Mt. Senario College that dropped athletics so they could focus on academics...only to see the school close shortly after.  I think sometimes school administrations need to be reminded that although the idea of college is to get a degree, sports can be used as advertising for the school.  While athletics does take up part of your budget, I think it more than makes up for it with increased enrollments.  Another thing to consider is alumni donations.  Alumni that can look back and remember all the extra curricular activities they were in are more likely to donate money back to their school.  If they did nothing but go to class for 4 years I doubt they will be as likely to donate to their school.  UD has figured this out.  Hopefully, Cornell can figure this out as well.  You don't have to be winning conference championships, but being competitive in most sports and putting some money into your facilities can work wonders to student moral and alumni giving. 

A student drew a cartoon for the student ran/faculty supervised newspaper entitled 100 years of meatheads.  Just to be fair I wanted to point out that a faculty member did approve this in the paper, there was no book written about this. 

[Klopenhiemer]

Sorry for the long post, but I am extremely tired of Cornell not winning in much of anything and wish the administration would change some things...like their attitude. ccram33s post really got me going.To be a winner you at least have to have a winners attitude..oh and it might help if everyone has it..not just a few people.

I guess I just don't get it.

I have never seen a college administrator take the field.  So how is it they are the root cause?

Plenty of places with high academic standards find ways to compete...and do not most IIAC schools have relatively high standards compared to a State school?

Look, I don't like losing, Jr doesn't like it...but football is part of the means to an end.  His degree will be the most valued thing he takes from this. 

Even if Cornell doesn't win another game for the rest of his career, and he would hate that, I believe that it will not defeat him.  For his 4 years he will have worked as hard as any kid that played at Wartburg or Central or Mount Union.  I see that in other Cornell kids too.

That is what makes me proud.

I have heard the faculty thing time and time again.  I truly believe that it has to start with the coach and him getting the school excited about football again.  When I visited Coe, and I am going to be brutally honest, I thought the place was a dump.  The football field was a disaster, the weight room was less than to be desired, and the dorm rooms were pitiful.  Kids were sleeping on beds made from plywood and 2 x4 's.  But the program was winning football games and the kids who I met were very excited about being there.  Hence why Coe scored so high with me.  I figured if all the players were this fired up, I could live with these conditions. 

I have heard people say that Cornell is a dump and that it needs updating.  Well when you do not win a conference game in 2+ years and counting, why would anyone want to update the facility.  If Cornell could somehow salvage this season and carry this momentum into recruiting season and put another good one on the  board, things might change.  Remember people this program is not that far removed from players like Matt Ditch and Chris Lovely.