FB: American Rivers Conference

[Thunderbolt]

IMHO perhaps the worst thing that has happened to D3 athletics is the addition of the playoffs.  Teams and coaches now are successful to the degree they make it deep into the playoffs and the conference competition (where the real rivalries are) are diminished.

I know its been a while since Luther got there, but are you familiar with how teams currently qualify for the playoffs?  You have to win in the conference to get there.  If you think the importance of conference games has been diminished, then I'd like to know what you think has become more important in getting IIAC teams to the postseason.

Sounds like SK has plenty of swagger in him. At least after midnight.

[Walston Hoover]

I work on commission. The only way I make a living at all is to be #1.
As for Wartburg, this wasn't supposed to be a reloading year. There's something like 15 or 17 starters off last year's team that barely stayed home at the end of November.

In today's world I hate that in order to be successful you have to be number 1 or win the championship, it just sets up a lot of people for failure. Basically your saying at the end of the season only 1 team had a successful season. From what I'm hearing from wartburg and central posters is that if they don't win conference then its a disappointing season. Well what let's look at it from a player's perspective. Let's say your a freshman or sophomore on that team, your playing your a*% off every week and just falling short, or barely getting by. Do you think that maybe that will be some motivation for the off-season, do you think that maybe a program builds itself up and occasionally it has to have a reloading year. I never won a conference championship at Luther, and I would never consider my time their unsuccessful. Give this kids a break, you'll learn way more about yourself and your program in a down year then you ever will in a successful year.

[LCNorse]

I work on commission. The only way I make a living at all is to be #1.
As for Wartburg, this wasn't supposed to be a reloading year. There's something like 15 or 17 starters off last year's team that barely stayed home at the end of November.

In today's world I hate that in order to be successful you have to be number 1 or win the championship, it just sets up a lot of people for failure. Basically your saying at the end of the season only 1 team had a successful season. From what I'm hearing from wartburg and central posters is that if they don't win conference then its a disappointing season. Well what let's look at it from a player's perspective. Let's say your a freshman or sophomore on that team, your playing your a*% off every week and just falling short, or barely getting by. Do you think that maybe that will be some motivation for the off-season, do you think that maybe a program builds itself up and occasionally it has to have a reloading year. I never won a conference championship at Luther, and I would never consider my time their unsuccessful. Give this kids a break, you'll learn way more about yourself and your program in a down year then you ever will in a successful year.

So what your saying is that if your not number 1 then you can't make a living...come on...all I was trying to say is that just because you don't win a conference championship doesn't mean you can't have a successful year. If that were the case then most years only one team would have a successful year in the IIAC. So last year only Central can say that they had a successful year. I just don't see it that way...

[Walston Hoover]

Yes. If I'm not #1 with my clients, then I do not make a living, at all. That is why I have to work my tail off to be #1 with them.

[DutchFan2004]

In today's world I hate that in order to be successful you have to be number 1 or win the championship, it just sets up a lot of people for failure. Basically your saying at the end of the season only 1 team had a successful season. From what I'm hearing from wartburg and central posters is that if they don't win conference then its a disappointing season. Well what let's look at it from a player's perspective. Let's say your a freshman or sophomore on that team, your playing your a*% off every week and just falling short, or barely getting by. Do you think that maybe that will be some motivation for the off-season, do you think that maybe a program builds itself up and occasionally it has to have a reloading year. I never won a conference championship at Luther, and I would never consider my time their unsuccessful. Give this kids a break, you'll learn way more about yourself and your program in a down year then you ever will in a successful year.

LC,

You sound like the type that advocates for games to be played and not keep score.  No one is suggesting that these kids playing their hearts out are losers if they do not win the conference championship.  The kids themselves are not losers their team as a collective is though.  No one is attacking the athletes.  If you do not have a chance to fail you can never have the chance to soar or succeed.  If you do not have a measuring stick you do not have a way to see how far you have come.   You can only have 1 automatic qualifier from this conference.  That is the prize and the goal of every IIAC team.  That is how success is defined.  That is team success.  Are there successes on the field?  Individual successes?  I would say yes to both.  I think unless you just want to show up and kick a ball around the field hit somebody knock them down and not keep score then this is the way things will be.  

[LCNorse]

That is the last thing that I'm saying...Some teams have more successful years then other teams...are you saying though that last years UD team was not successful becasue it didn't win the conference championship?...or was Centrals team not successful because it didn't win the National Championship? I would say that both teams had very successful years...all I'm trying to say is that you cannot only define a teams success based on championships...yes a win loss record is a good indicator of what type of year they had...but every program has different goals. I would say that coming into this year if cornell wins 1 or 2 conference games then they might consider that successful. I just don't think that you can tell a player that if they don't win a championship then they had an unsuccessful year...but keep keeping track of scores...please

[DutchFan2004]

That is the last thing that I'm saying...Some teams have more successful years then other teams...are you saying though that last years UD team was not successful becasue it didn't win the conference championship?...or was Centrals team not successful because it didn't win the National Championship? I would say that both teams had very successful years...all I'm trying to say is that you cannot only define a teams success based on championships...yes a win loss record is a good indicator of what type of year they had...but every program has different goals. I would say that coming into this year if cornell wins 1 or 2 conference games then they might consider that successful. I just don't think that you can tell a player that if they don't win a championship then they had an unsuccessful year...but keep keeping track of scores...please

I think you are mistaken in your saying that all teams have different goals.  I think if you took a poll of all of the IIAC teams they have one goal.  That is to win the IIAC.  I would venture a guess that even Purple Heys would say that that is Cornell's goal.  All teams want that.   As far as the keeping scores that is how your post was understood by me.  What other conclusions can you draw?  Your comment about Cornell winning a couple of IIAC games being a successful year I doubt that they would consider a 2-8 record successful.  Would they think that they have progressed yes but not successful. 

[sportsknight]

Would they think that they have progressed yes but not successful. 

Bingo.  There's a difference between success and progress.

[sportsknight]

IMHO perhaps the worst thing that has happened to D3 athletics is the addition of the playoffs.  Teams and coaches now are successful to the degree they make it deep into the playoffs and the conference competition (where the real rivalries are) are diminished.

I know its been a while since Luther got there, but are you familiar with how teams currently qualify for the playoffs?  You have to win in the conference to get there.  If you think the importance of conference games has been diminished, then I'd like to know what you think has become more important in getting IIAC teams to the postseason.

One addendum to this SK.  The main way you get to the playoffs is by winning the conference and getting the AQ.  You can get an at large invitation.  But if you don't win the conference you better only have one at the outside two losses.  Then you can still possibly get in.

I'm well aware of the at-large bids, but the only way you can guarantee yourself a trip to the playoffs is to win the league.  Otherwise you're leaving your fate in someone else's hands.

[dutchfan1]

DF2004 is a bit narrow-minded in how he defines success. Of course UD's season the last year can be considered successful. For the first time in 20 years, they were a legitimate contender. Dropping a few games does not wipe out the success of the rest of the season. The same can be said for any team that defys odds. Success is meeting and exceeding the goals you set for yourself. If your goal is to win more games than you did last year, and you do, consider it a success. I tend to side with LCNorse on this one -- saying that only one team in the conference can have a successful season is BS.

[DutchFan2004]

Would they think that they have progressed yes but not successful. 

Bingo.  There's a difference between success and progress.

There is a difference between success and goals as well.

[Thunderbolt]

In today's world I hate that in order to be successful you have to be number 1 or win the championship, it just sets up a lot of people for failure. Basically your saying at the end of the season only 1 team had a successful season. From what I'm hearing from wartburg and central posters is that if they don't win conference then its a disappointing season. Well what let's look at it from a player's perspective. Let's say your a freshman or sophomore on that team, your playing your a*% off every week and just falling short, or barely getting by. Do you think that maybe that will be some motivation for the off-season, do you think that maybe a program builds itself up and occasionally it has to have a reloading year. I never won a conference championship at Luther, and I would never consider my time their unsuccessful. Give this kids a break, you'll learn way more about yourself and your program in a down year then you ever will in a successful year.

I've read this quote over and over and I can't see anything that even remotely suggests not keeping score. Every team has more than just one goal. I doubt that every team had a stated goal of winning the IIAC this year. Goals need to be obtainable to be of any value. Not every team is capable of winning the IIAC this year. To set a goal of doing something your not capable of, would defeat the whole purpose of setting goals.

[Fannosaurus Rex]

We keep score because football is a game and it wouldn't be a very interesting game without a winner and a loser. But win or lose, it is just a game.  I want to see the team I chose to identify with win rather than lose but I am not going to judge them successes or failures based on the score of a game.
Of course if Central loses to Dubuque Saturday I fully expect the world to come to an end.

[DutchFan2004]

In today's world I hate that in order to be successful you have to be number 1 or win the championship, it just sets up a lot of people for failure. Basically your saying at the end of the season only 1 team had a successful season. From what I'm hearing from wartburg and central posters is that if they don't win conference then its a disappointing season. Well what let's look at it from a player's perspective. Let's say your a freshman or sophomore on that team, your playing your a*% off every week and just falling short, or barely getting by. Do you think that maybe that will be some motivation for the off-season, do you think that maybe a program builds itself up and occasionally it has to have a reloading year. I never won a conference championship at Luther, and I would never consider my time their unsuccessful. Give this kids a break, you'll learn way more about yourself and your program in a down year then you ever will in a successful year.

I've read this quote over and over and I can't see anything that even remotely suggests not keeping score. Every team has more than just one goal. I doubt that every team had a stated goal of winning the IIAC this year. Goals need to be obtainable to be of any value. Not every team is capable of winning the IIAC this year. To set a goal of doing something your not capable of, would defeat the whole purpose of setting goals.

You are correct I may have over reacted to this.  But when the opening line is "In todays world"  brings to mind tball and the way we want to keep any sort of judgements out of the games.  "every one is a winner for just trying" is another one of today's sayings.  I am sorry is I read this in to this post.  I think that you can have success without winning the conference. 


I think that setting goals is proper.  So if you define success by the goals you set and if you obtain those goals then by those terms you have been a success.

[Thunderbolt]

  + K for coming around to the Norse way of thinking. There's hope for you yet.