FB: American Rivers Conference

[Purple Heys]

Coe's non-conference games next year are Olivet Nazarene and Iowa Wesleyan.

Not to be outdone, Wartburg just announced their non-conference schedule; they'll face off against California School for the Deaf in Riverside and Sister Mary Catherine's College for the Perpetually Perplexed.

[doolittledog]

I don't know any of the other schedules. I just happen to know about Coe because I saw them play the past two weeks. Sorry.

Thanks anyways though, Pat.  

All of this puzzles me.  

Cornell is basically saying they can't compete, so they are moving conferences.  I think they could compete if they just gave a bit more support to football.  I believe most of their other sports are already competitive in the IIAC.  If they want to be associated with like minded schools that emphasize academics...well, they aren't really emphasizing academics if you are pulling your students out of class more often and incurring bigger budgets because of all of the added travel.  Cornell would also likely be saying goodbye to the longest running college football rivalry west of the Mississippi with Coe.  

Coe has two NAIA schools scheduled for their non-con next year also seems odd.  I know it isn't easy to fill out a schedule, but there has to be D3 options out there that aren't too far away travel wise.  Olivet Nazarine and Iowa Wesleyan both went 2-9 last season.  I would suspect Coe will be 2-0 after their non-con portion of the schedule is complete!!!

[doolittledog]

From a football perspective, staying in the IIAC may well be a Sisyphean Task for Cornell.  (Look it up 'hack fan)

There is a difference between being persistent and being too dumb to quit.

From Cornell's perspective, a league with the likes of Grinnell, Knox, Ripon, etc. would seem more equitable to their present level of commitment.

Let's say this happens...and the new league eventually gets a AQ berth...an 8-2 or 7-3 league winning Cornell team could get into the playoffs when an 8-2 or 9-1 Wartburg or Coe or Central would not.  And then most likely get blown out in the 1st round like the MWC usually does.

What is the timing/process for a new league to get an AQ bid?

I am on the fence.  I think there is more commitment to athletics than most outside folks realize.  I think they can have satisfactory levels of IIAC success, even in football. (Plenty is going on right now in other sports).  This new football coach hire is an opportunity to vet that.  I like the IIAC and it's upper tier status in D3.  I think getting to a point to win the IIAC in football is difficult to imagine even for an eternal optimist like me...but I have seen the desire within the people in that Athletic Department and that gives me hope.

With the money Cornell will have to put into athletics just in travel expenses, they could probably add into the budget while staying in the IIAC and help them become more competitive.  Plus, it does seem a little contridictory to say you want to put more emphasis on academics than athletics and then pull your students out of class twice as much because of all the travel this move will bring on. 

Dubuque won 9 conference games in the 1990's and then only won another 2 in the first 5 years of this decade.  It would have been easy to run away, but they didn't.  And you can't put that all on the Chlapaty family and their money for the improvement at UD. 

[DBQ1965]

Purple Heys ...

Kudos on your introduction of "Sisyphean" to our dialogue here.  Just one more reason to like youl.

[Purple Heys]

Double D,

My preference would be to see the Rams stay in the IIAC.  It should be noted here that I have no say in their decision.  I can understand their reasoning for considering an alternative. 

Us romantics like the idea of a 120 year old rivalry.  I don't want say we are joined at the hip with our red-headed step siblings in Cedar Rapids whose collective clocks we just cleaned in Basketball last night...but I digress.   

I think the current symmetry of the IIAC (if only we could find a partner for BV) is good for logistics.  That said, Cornell's One Class at a Time schedule does not hurt them as much as other schools if more athletic travel were to occur.

I did not originally consider Cornell's student population diversity to be a factor, but it appears that it is.  Perhaps Cornell feels it may attract some more  IL and WI student-athletes if they played more games there.  The extra tuition revenue offsets the travel expenses, I guess.

[Purple Heys]

Purple Heys ...

Kudos on your introduction of "Sisyphean" to our dialogue here.  Just one more reason to like youl.

Just doing my part to up the collective intellectual wattage around here.   

[Purple Heys]

I will say this...it makes me sick to watch other teams we've beaten in the past in non-conference play go on to have 5, 6, and 7 win seasons.

I watched the Rams margin for error be ever so slim in so many IIAC games over the past 4 years.  If we were MWC or the MIAA or NATHC, I believe we'd be a .500 or better team over that same span.  Winning is winning and losing is losing at any level.  Losing takes a huge toll when it is not in your make up to accept it.  I could see it burn inside Jr. and wondered sometimes if he would crack.  I am proud that he didn't.

Lakeland went to the D3 playoffs.  Lakeland.  They lost their non-conference games 40-17, 42-19, 50-34 and 70-7.  Lakeland went to the D3 playoffs.  They went 6-1 in league, good for a ticket to the dance just like Coe and Central(who delivered the 40-17 loss).

Some folks at Cornell may see a path like this as the answer to the difference between persistence and too dumb to quit.

[doolittledog]

I will say this...it makes me sick to watch other teams we've beaten in the past in non-conference play go on to have 5, 6, and 7 win seasons.

I watched the Rams margin for error be ever so slim in so many IIAC games over the past 4 years.  If we were MWC or the MIAA or NATHC, I believe we'd be a .500 or better team over that same span.  Winning is winning and losing is losing at any level.  Losing takes a huge toll when it is not in your make up to accept it.  I could see it burn inside Jr. and wondered sometimes if he would crack.  I am proud that he didn't.

Lakeland went to the D3 playoffs.  Lakeland.  They lost their non-conference games 40-17, 42-19, 50-34 and 70-7.  Lakeland went to the D3 playoffs.  They went 6-1 in league, good for a ticket to the dance just like Coe and Central(who delivered the 40-17 loss).

Some folks at Cornell may see a path like this as the answer to the difference between persistence and too dumb to quit.

I understand what you're saying.  But, Cornell went 2-8 this season with 4 games lost by single digits.  If Cornell goes 2-2 in those games you have a 4-6 campaign under your belts.  For me, I would rather go somewhere between 4-6 and 6-4 every year in the IIAC, than to go 7-3 in the NATH like Lakeland and then get beat 70-7 in the first round of the playoffs.  Whoopee, we made the playoffs.  Now lets go get our butts whupped by Whitewater as a present.  It WILL cost Cornell more money to move to another conference.  Invest that same amount of money and stay in the IIAC and they will see a good return on their investment.  And their poor students won't have to travel on 5+ hour bus rides to most conference schools!!!

But, none of us on here really have a say.  And, it sounds like Cornell has already made their decision, so no amount of talking on here will have any affect.  I think it's a bad decision, a really really bad decision, but oh well. 

[doolittledog]

I don't know how to transfer a quote from another forum... "The Roop" over on the Midwest Conference basketball board wrote this...

What we are not hearing is perhaps more intriguing/confusing than what makes the papers. I was hoping to hear from another source at an ACM member school but given the time that has passed and the fact that that particular school has chosen to stay put, I doubt I'll hear anything further.

So what I have heard is this. (Yes the source is reliable) There are aspects of this ACM proposal that could eliminate conference championships and post season NCAA play. Effectively turning every athletic program into an intramural. Sure it would count as a varsity game and teams would still travel, however, once the regular season is over that's all you get. Who would want to play or coach in a situation like that ??

I don't see how any progress is being made especially if those things come to pass. Nor do I like the idea of kicking three schools to the curb just because they aren't in the private club.

No post season play if this ACM conference comes together.  Just play each other during the regular season and then that is it according to that post.  I can't imagine that would be too enticing to kids or coaches.  I'm sure the academic side of those schools might consider that a great deal...not too many others I would think would like that!!!

[Old Dutch]

Coe's non-conference games next year are Olivet Nazarene and Iowa Wesleyan.

Not to be outdone, Wartburg just announced their non-conference schedule; they'll face off against California School for the Deaf in Riverside and Sister Mary Catherine's College for the Perpetually Perplexed.

Purple, you gotta stick around just to give us Iowegians a little sense of humor.  +k  Hopefully Cornell sticks around, after all the loses were pretty d*** competitive games and if they can get some depth they will compete quite well.

Central at least went into tough conferences for non-con games, even though they are playing basically .500 teams (4-6 Osh Kosh and 6-4 Augie).  In the end that will get better play for Pool C should they not win the AQ then Coe's two trips into NAIA (see UW Stevens Point slight this year).  Although guaranteeing two wins appears to look good to the selection committee.

[footballdaddy]

Let me throw this out there for discussion:

Which is better, 2-0 over some patsies or 0-2 against top level teams?

[warthog]

I never thought Luther was giving serious consideration to leaving the IIAC for a less competitive league.  I would guess they have been one of the three most successful overall programs in the IIAC.  Having known Dr. Torgerson since his days as an assistant football coach and biology professor at Wartburg, I can tell you he doesn't back away from a challenge.  Joining a conference that would be two steps away from fielding club teams wouldn't be given any serious consideration by the Rick Torgerson I know.  I could see him saying, "Not only no, Hell No!"

[Pat Coleman]

Let me throw this out there for discussion:

Which is better, 2-0 over some pasties or 0-2 against top level teams?

If your goal is to win the conference, I think the latter. At least you get tested and you learn something about your team.

[5 Words or Less]

... There are aspects of this ACM proposal that could eliminate conference championships and post season NCAA play ...

Was that a D4 objective?

[warthog]

As to my previous post speculating that Luther has been one of the three most successful overall IIAC programs.  Since the 2002-2003 school year when the first conference all-sport trophy was awarded, Luther has finished third once and has been second six times. (three 2nd place ties and three 2nd place alone)

I would say, next to my Knights, over the past seven years Luther has been the second most successful athletic program in the IIAC.  That sure wouldn't lead me to believe they would be looking for a new home.