FB: American Rivers Conference

D3Dutchman · December 20, 2013, 11:50:58 PM

Quote from: doolittledog on December 19, 2013, 03:46:02 PM
Goofing off beats working...

So, for the about to be Senior classes...

Coe 17-5 1 title
Wartburg 16-6 1 title
Dubuque 15-7 1 title
Central 14-8
Simpson 14-8
BVU 10-12
Luther 4-18
Loras 1-21

BVU 10-12
Loras 3-0
Luther 2-1
Simpson 2-1
Central 1-2
Dubuque 1-2
Coe 0-3
Wartburg 0-3

Central 14-8
Loras 3-0
Luther 3-0
BVU 2-1
Coe 2-1
Dubuque 1-2
Simpson 1-2
Wartburg 1-2

Coe 17-5 1 title
BVU 3-0
Loras 3-0
Luther 3-0
Wartburg 3-0
Simpson 2-1
Central 1-2
Dubuque 1-2

Dubuque 15-7 1 title
Loras 3-0
Luther 3-0
BVU 2-1
Central 2-1
Coe 2-1
Simpson 2-1
Wartburg 0-3

Loras 1-21
Luther 1-2
BVU 0-3
Central 0-3
Coe 0-3
Dubuque 0-3
Simpson 0-3
Wartburg 0-3

Luther 4-18
Loras 2-1
BVU 1-2
Central 0-3
Coe 0-3
Dubuque 0-3
Simpson 0-3
Wartburg 0-3

Simpson 14-8
Loras 3-0
Luther 3-0
Central 2-1
Wartburg 2-1
BVU 1-2
Coe 1-2
Dubuque 1-2

Wartburg 16-6 1 title
BVU 3-0
Dubuque 3-0
Loras 3-0
Luther 3-0
Central 2-1
Simpson 1-2
Coe 0-3

The biggest thing that stands out to me is that there is no dominant program right now in the IIAC. Always fun to watch the D3 title game, and tonight Whitewater showed that it was the class of D3. The transitive property of football is misleading at best, but take a Central team (that could have won the IIAC just as easily as anyone else) that played UW Oskosh to 4 points, who in turn played Whitewater to 3 points, and you have to think that the best teams in the IIAC at least would belong on the same field as UWW (maybe hope to keep it close for a half). So, what's it gonna take for a IIAC team to make a deep run in the playoffs, and what program is best positioned to take that next step? What barriers stand in the way? NAIA schools from Iowa have made championship runs in each of the past two years...why can't a D3 team from Iowa? Are they poaching talent that would have been in the IIAC 5 years ago?

Mr. Ypsi · December 20, 2013, 11:57:17 PM

Probably in some cases, but the main difference is NAIA teams don't face UMU or UWW.

(Not sure the NAIA even has anyone who can match UMHB, NCC, Linfield, or even Bethel.)

doolittledog · December 21, 2013, 09:09:31 AM

Walston Hoover once said the top 10 in the NAIA would compare favorably to 15th-25th ranked in D2, but after that the NAIA was basically D3 football.

We've seen over the last few years during preseason scrimmages that Central and Simpson weren't matching up to Grand View and William Penn. Those are two top 10 programs at this time. Grand View has a recruiting pipeline to Texas and has really started to recruit Iowa heavily. I'm not sure about Billie Penn. That is part of the problem.

Another thing is there are 5 teams in the IIAC that are pretty much even steven right now. In the past we would only have a top 3 teams duking it out at the top of the conference. Of the 5 teams in the IIAC that have a winning conference record over the past 3 seasons...Coe has gone 7-5 against the other 4 teams. Dubuque, Simpson, and Wartburg have gone 6-6. Central has gone 5-7. There isn't much difference between 5 of the 8 schools in the conference, and Buena Vista is really just a half notch below those 5. That means 6 of 8 schools are pretty decent in football at this point, and who knows what the future holds for Luther in the next few years. That's dividing up the talent in a big way.

What that suggests is a bunch of pretty decent teams in the conference means there really isn't any GREAT team in the conference. All that said, Wartburg got a big win in the 1st round of the playoffs this year and were 5 yards short of getting a 2nd round win against a good Bethel team. 1 more play and Wartburg would have been into the final 8 in the country in D3.

NAIA going from 5 schools in Iowa to 10 schools today plays a part. I think kids in the past were more inclined to play at a proven winner (we've had posters on here say as much) and today that might not be the case. And in the end, it might actually just be dumb luck that we haven't had a team make a deep run in the playoffs for a few years. We match up well against the top teams in our region, we've just been coming up a little short. That tends to even out over time. (see Iowa losing all their close games one year and then winning all their close games the next)

D3Dutchman · December 21, 2013, 11:14:35 AM

Yeah, comparing NAIA and D3 is an argument I love and hate at the same time. Really it's apples and oranges when you try to compare a league with 240 members to a league with 90, because of the natural disparity between the haves and have nots at the top and bottom of each respective league. Over on the general board there was a guy who used to track the matchups, and over time, D3 had the upper hand. That said, the top teams don't seem to play each other that often (Oskosh handled the defending NAIA Natl champions fairly easily this year, but I think both teams were down just slightly from the year before). I tend to think that our top 90 equal their top 90, and that the very cream of the crop D3 teams outpace anything NAIA has, which is a product of the powerhouse programs/name recognition they have built, not necessarily because of their affiliation with NCAA Division III. Bottom line is that this is only a question that can be answered on the field in a real game (not a scrimmage), and that isn't going to happen anytime soon. Especially given NAIA's delusion that they match up better with DII, and the fact that DIII schools get absolutely no credit for beating quality NAIA schools when it comes time for the post season. Their is no incentive for the two to play each other for any other reason than a last resort schedule filler.

As for what is keeping a IIAC team from making a deep run, I agree with a lot of the things you have to say doolittle. Over the past 10-15 years there have been 4-5 teams that have made those runs (with the quarters being the ceiling I believe). Of those teams, I am most familiar with the 2000 Dutch. That was a legitimate national championship caliber team. They had SJU on the ropes and lost a heart breaker. SJU went on to demolish their semifinal opponent and lose by a field goal to MU in the title game. As great as that team was, they were not dominant. They needed the ball to bounce in their direction (literally), more than once that year, to get to where they got (bottom line is they just had a refuse to lose mentality...great group of guys). Take that team, and put it into today's recruiting environment. Let's say a couple of key players get seduced by a partial schollie offer from Billie P or Grand View, and choose to go play NAIA ball. Maybe one goes to Coe because of their recent success, and another really likes those facilities being built in Dubuque. Your margin for error is gone pretty quickly. I truly believe small college football talent in this state is spread too thin right now for a dominant program to emerge. What's it gonna take for someone in the IIAC to overcome this parody, and the recent NAIA incursion (which for some reason seems to only be happening in Iowa)? For sustained dominance, it's gonna take a school to figure out a way to set itself apart in the eyes of recruits, and I think that needs to be multifaceted (eg. facilities alone ain't gonna do it). Time will tell I guess. For now, I think it's possible for a team to have the stars align every now and again. You just need a group of kids to come together and decide they are going to make a commitment to do whatever it takes. Hopefully that group is in Pella right now

Easier said than done, I know.

doolittledog · December 21, 2013, 01:29:21 PM

I think even if you take the NAIA out of the equation, there was a big gap between the top 3 and the bottom 5-6 in the past, that you don't see today.

Over the past 3 seasons we have 5 schools with a winning conference record, and a BVU team that's close to .500

Coe 17-5 1 title
Wartburg 16-6 1 title
Dubuque 15-7 1 title
Central 14-8
Simpson 14-8
BVU 10-12
Luther 4-18
Loras 1-21

If you go back to the 10 years prior to these last 3 seasons you get...

Wartburg 68-14 5 titles
Central 65-17 6 titles
Coe 58-24 3 titles
---------------------------
Simpson 39-43
BVU 38-44
Luther 36-46
Loras 34-48
Dubuque 21-61
Cornell 14-68

That was a BIG drop off after the top 3 teams from 2001-2010 to the past 3 years where the top 5 teams basically are even-steven, and if you go back to just the last 2 seasons 6 of the 8 conference schools have winning records in conference play. That might have more to do with recent playoff success than an influence from new NAIA schools.

warthog · December 22, 2013, 06:10:30 PM

Wartburg finishes the season with a #15 ranking in the final D3 poll.

Looks like the steamroll over Illinois Wesleyan and a close loss to Bethel was enough to convince voters that the Knights were for real.

I have to be honest here and admit I didn't see this coming before the season started. I thought Wartburg would be respectable, but the IIAC title and a close playoff loss to a highly rated team was more than I saw in the crystal ball.

The coaching staff did a nice job with this year's edition of Wartburg Football.

badgerwarhawk · December 24, 2013, 02:28:21 PM

Merry Christmas to all of you IIAC dudes and dudettes.

Spurrier · December 25, 2013, 05:55:04 AM

Merry Christmas from the spurrier family to the Spartan nation

wartknight · December 25, 2013, 09:58:19 AM

Merry Christmas IIACers, family & friends. Knights will be loading it up even better in 2014!
Time to get the bird in the Charbroil.

doolittledog · December 25, 2013, 10:30:04 AM

Merry Christmas to all. For the next few months I will pay more attention to basketball and maybe even some wrestling while I search for any football news I can find

While drinking from a UD Spartan coffee mug that Santa brought me

Fannosaurus Rex · December 26, 2013, 11:55:09 AM

Central has its 2014 schedule posted. It is always good to see some new opponents and finally one in the Chicago metro area.

Date Opponent Location Time/Results Live!
Sept. 6 Benedictine (Ill.) Lisle, Ill. 1 p.m.
Sept. 13 Monmouth (Ill.) Pella 6 p.m.
Sept. 20 Maranatha Baptist (Wis.) Pella 1 p.m.
Oct. 4 *Wartburg Pella 1 p.m.
Oct. 11 *Luther Decorah 1 p.m.
Oct. 18 *Loras Pella 1 p.m.
Oct. 25 *Coe Cedar Rapids 1 p.m.
Nov. 1 *Simpson Pella 1 p.m.
Nov. 8 *Buena Vista Storm Lake 1 p.m.
Nov. 15 *Dubuque Pella 1 p.m.

wartknight · December 27, 2013, 04:49:54 AM

Quote from: doolittledog on December 25, 2013, 10:30:04 AM

While drinking from a UD Spartan coffee mug that Santa brought me

You must have been a bad boy

doolittledog · December 27, 2013, 06:43:15 PM

Quote from: wartknight on December 27, 2013, 04:49:54 AM
Quote from: doolittledog on December 25, 2013, 10:30:04 AM

While drinking from a UD Spartan coffee mug that Santa brought me
You must have been a bad boy

I'm surrounded by Wartburg neighbors...I couldn't bring myself to include Wartburg swag in my house

doolittledog · December 27, 2013, 07:57:25 PM

Once again, because goofing off beats working...

Conference titles after 25 years of conference play 1923-1947

Simpson - 6
Upper Iowa - 5
Luther - 4
Central - 3
Dubuque - 2
Iowa Wesleyan - 2
Parsons - 2
Iowa Teachers - 2
St. Ambrose - 1
William Penn - 1

Conference titles after 50 years of conference play 1923-1972

Luther - 10
Central - 8
Simpson - 8
Upper Iowa - 7
Parsons - 6
Dubuque - 3
Iowa Wesleyan - 3
St. Ambrose - 3
Wartburg - 3
Buena Vista - 2
Iowa Teachers - 2
William Penn - 2

Conference titles after 75 years of conference play 1923-1997

Central - 22
Simpson - 12
Luther - 11
Upper Iowa - 7
Dubuque - 6
Parsons - 6
Wartburg - 6
Buena Vista - 4
William Penn - 4
Iowa Wesleyan - 3
St. Ambrose - 3
Iowa Teachers - 2

Conference titles through 91 years of conference play 1923-2013

Central - 30
Wartburg - 13
Simpson - 12
Luther - 11
Dubuque - 7
Upper Iowa - 7
Parsons - 6
Buena Vista - 4
Coe - 4
William Penn - 4
Iowa Wesleyan - 3
St. Ambrose - 3
Iowa Teachers - 2

How about...Conference titles over the 1st 25 years 1923-1947

Simpson - 6
Upper Iowa - 5
Luther - 4
Central - 3
Dubuque - 2
Iowa Wesleyan - 2
Parsons - 2
Iowa Teachers - 2
St. Ambrose - 1
William Penn - 1

Conference titles over the 2nd 25 years 1948 - 1972

Luther - 6
Central - 5
Parsons - 4
Wartburg - 3
Buena Vista - 2
Simpson - 2
St. Ambrose - 2
Upper Iowa - 2
Dubuque - 1
Iowa Wesleyan - 1
William Penn - 1

Conference titles over the 3rd 25 years 1973-1997

Central - 14
Simpson - 4
Dubuque - 3
Wartburg - 3
Buena Vista - 2
William Penn - 2
Luther - 1

Conference titles over the past 16 years 1998 - 2013

Central - 8
Wartburg - 7
Coe - 4
Dubuque - 1

doolittledog · December 27, 2013, 08:38:54 PM

How about we just completed the 1st year of the last decade of the 1st century of Iowa Conference Football.

Team 23-32 33-42 43-52 53-62 63-72 73-82 83-92 93-02 03-12 13-22
BVU 0 0 1 0 1 2 0 0 0 0
Central 0 1 2 1 4 4 8 6 4 0
Coe --- --- --- --- --- --- --- 1 3 0
Dubuque 0 2 1 0 0 3 0 0 1 0
Loras 0 0 0 --- --- --- 0 0 0 0
Luther 1 3 0 3 3 1 0 0 0 0
Simpson 4 2 1 0 1 0 2 2 0 0
Wartburg --- 0 0 2 1 1 1 3 4 1