FB: American Rivers Conference

[BeaverFan3208]

As much as I agree  about Brautigham and COY, I think it would be criminal if the Knights won the conf and he did not get coach of the year. Lets not forget he inherited a team coming off their worst season since 1997 and is only in his second year as a head man.
No way McMartin wins COY this year. If its not Koehler, its Brautigham.

Sounds like you think Koehler should win it unless the Knights lose to Central, then it should be Brautigham   Why wouldn't McMartin be COY if the Dutch go undefeated   If the Knights win the conference, why does Koehler automatically get it  Isn't the Knight loss to Augsburg a worse loss than a Dutch loss to the Knights   I think Brautigham gets COY. 

If McMartin wins it this year, then I will become a conspiracy theorist about a plot against the evil empire because of Willis getting slighted. When he didn't win, it was because everyone expected Wartburg to be at the top anyway (That was the explanation from a lot of people).
I know how hard it is to stay at the top with everyone gunning for you, but the precedent (I know it doesn't count) has been set already.

Walston - There are 3 coaches who deserve to win COY and they are McMartin Koehler and Brautigham. If Central beats your beloved "empire" then yes McMartin deserves to win not Koehler. And If Wartburg wins out and so does Dubuque you can't honestly say that Brautigham has no chance. All you have to do is look at what he has done with the program lately and it speaks for itself. When i first got into the league DU was a joke. When I was done they had become a very good football team.

[ramfan27]

Assuming both Wartburg and Central win this week I would say you give the coach of the year to whoever wins the game.  Yes Central and Wartburg were picked to win the conference, but McMartin has done it without the reigning two time conference MVP.  If people told me Schuring would be hurt as much this year as he was before the season, I don't know that I would've picked the Dutch as the favorite.  Not to mention you can't win as many close games as the Dutch did without great coaching, thats what separates teams in games like that.  Say the Knights were to slip against the Rams this weekend (fingers crossed!  ) and then go on to beat the Dutch next week, I'd say Brautigham would have a pretty good shot at it.  As far as MVP honors, for me it's the same debate as the Heisman.  Do you pick the best player on the best team (Troy Smith) or do you pick the actual player who is the best player in the conference.  If you go with the first scenario, it's probably Connell right now, if you go with the second criteria I'd definitely go with Sherden, IMHO.

You should qualify that by saying best "Offensive" player.

ANd dbljay- I'm taking into account that Koehler is only in his 2nd year as the head man at Wartburg and has yet to win a conf title (also the team hasn't since 2004). If Willis were still there, I say give it to Brautigham. He's had a lot more time to mold the team the way he wants it to be than Koehler.

Probably true W-H, but it's hard for any defensive player to win an MVP award when people, media, etc pay more attention to offensive stats than defensive stats.  A defensive player would probably have to have season which no other player before him has had to win it, and even then if there was an offensive player who had a very good season it would be tough for the defensive guy.  Just buy pure precedent.  Someone said earlier if Cody Kelley didn't win it a few years ago, they didn't think of the defensive guys this year should get it.  I would tend to agree with that.  

[Walston Hoover]

ANd dbljay- I'm taking into account that Koehler is only in his 2nd year as the head man at Wartburg and has yet to win a conf title (also the team hasn't since 2004). If Willis were still there, I say give it to Brautigham. He's had a lot more time to mold the team the way he wants it to be than Koehler.

Are Koehler's ideas/visions for Wartburg that different from Willis that he needs time to re-shape the Knights?

Moreso than an outsider would think.
Obviously both had similar goals (championships)
but Willis was a Defensive coach and Koehler is an offensive coach and if you take out the fact that they are are (were) football coaches, you wouldn't find too many more similarities between them.

[doolittledog]

Hey, DutchHawk, tell us about your recruiting visits.  I always like hearing what you guys thought of schools on your visits and why you liked or disliked the coaches or schools. 

now doolittle are you going to take offense and make a big deal out it, if dutchhawk says he was creeped out by the UD coach 

It all depends...I might get creeped out if he tells me Brautigam gave him a long hard hug and he wondered if Brautigam had a mouse in his pocket!!!

I'm way too old to get worked up about much of anything these days, especially sports.  Sports are a nice release from our everyday worries and the demands and pressures from work.  But I don't think I will start an internet war over anything I hear on here.

I just like hearing what people have to say from their experiances and why they chose one school over another or why one school creeped them out  

[Walston Hoover]

partially true Beaver fan,
McMartin may deserve it with a win, but I don't think he gets it this year. It is a race between Koehler and Brautigham (although UD may have had a better argument for him to win the award last year.)
The precedent set by the coaches in this conference is that if you are good, you are expected to stay good. If a team has one good year and they beat a couple teams they shouldn't, that coach will get COY.
If the UD QB is the best player in the conf, then I would expect more from the Coach of the year.

[Ash Park]

Regarding Player of the Year...

To not mention Chris Gustafson is a disservice to the effort this young man puts out EVERY play EVERY weekend.

Gus leads the league in tackles, he's blocked 4 kicks this year...just about every big play Cornell had, he's been involved in.

Sure, Cornell's Defense has its issues...take him and put him at LB for Wartburg or Central and you tell me how much recognition this kid would get...he gets no where near what he should get that's for sure.

That he has NOT quit after what has to be a frustrating season is a tribute to his leadership, character, and ability.  Guarantee you that he won't be quitting on the next two games either.

Imagine how things would be at Cornell without him.

Gustafson is one hell of a player and will probably be an all-conference selection. He plays hard and has no quit in him and I'm sure if he was on a team with a better record or better defense he would probably be mentioned.  I will agree with you that he will never quit. You just aren't going to see many guys especially on defense getting that much recognition with Cornell's record. Is he deserving to be mentioned with the MVP award? Yes and No I guess. I say yes for the same reasons you think so Heys, but honestly I can see why he isn't.

[Kohawk Krazy]

No one  in any league at any level that plays on a last place team will be considered for a League MVP award.

[ramfan27]

I agree about Gus, probably will be an all conference selection and probably will be team MVP, but it's hard to make noise for conference MVP from a team that is winless in the conference.  He is definitely one guy any team would love to have.  And I can assure you Gus only knows one speed, be it Saturdays or any day in practice, the kid goes hard 24/7.

[Walston Hoover]

No one  in any league at any level that plays on a last place team will be considered for a League MVP award.

I agree with a Kohawk on something!!!
I think you'll find at pretty much every school, they think their LB's are the best. That's because the LB's ARE usually the best athletes on the team. Decent players on BAD defenses tend to have the best stats. Ask every LB who has ever played at BV. When you are on the field for that many plays, you will get a lot of tackles.
Nothing to slight Gustafson, as I'm sure he is a great young man, but what you say about him in your posts probably applies to 80% or more of the starting LBs in the league. It may be a little harder for him to come back series after series, week after week of getting your butt kicked though.

[DutchFan2004]

I will speak to the precedent thing.  One thing you have to look at when that happened the conference was a totally different make up of coaches.  How many new ones are there since I was not paying attention to IIAC football when that happened.  I know Central, Wartburg, and BV are all different.  Loras is different but was Coach Osty at BV at that time?  You talk of precendents like this was the Supreme Court I don't think the coaches look at it that way and I don't think there are any special rules for a vote like that. I for one do not even know how the COY is chosen does anyone know for sure?  I think the merits of Coach K, Coach Mac, and Coach B are all worthy of the nod.  The rest of the coaches and voters I assume know what it took to get them there and I believe they have more informed opinions than us. 

[Walston Hoover]

Hefty, Niemann, Osty, Brautigham, ANderson as an assistant, Koehler as an assistant were all around in '03 and '04 when non-winners of the conf title were COY.
edit: Raeburn was as well.

[DutchFan2004]

The only thing I will say about the Weber comments and POY.  I think the comment that there isn't a player on the team better than him in all positions he plays.  I looked it up and they only list two punt returners Weber for Wartburg and Kain for Simpson.  I believe there is a player on Wartburgs own roster that is a better returner and has one more TD returning punts more that Weber and that would be Suckow.  Didn't he return one against Coe?  So he may have more opportunities that Suckow but from watching Suchow the last 3 years and one more in two weeks I would have to give him the nod as a punt returner.  The DB and receiver are other issues but on the punt returner IMO Suckow is better.  

[DutchFan2004]

So five new head coaches.  Walston do you know how COY is chosen.  Do assitants vote?  Or is it just head Coaches. 

Purple Nation sorry I forgot about Dillon being new as well don't want to leave you guys out of the discussion. 

[Walston Hoover]

If it is the same this year as it has been in the past, some time around week 6 or 7, head coaches send in ballots, of players they are nominating for AC awards and they nominate coaches as well. I think in principle it gives the other coaches a chance to check out some of the nominees the last few weeks of the season. Whether the head coaches fill them out or assistants fill them out for the coach is a mystery to me.
The Sunday after the last game, the head coaches meet and decide from that list. For some reason I think there is a qualifier that you can't vote for a player from your own team, but I'm quite certain there's lobbying that goes on.
Obviously a coach isn't going to nominate himself for COY, so he'd better have a buddy somewhere else in the IIAC.
It would be interesting if there was a media pool that put together an AC list as well, like the radio guys from each school.
I'd be willing to do an AC team from the posters here.  I'll work on that as the weekend approaches and we can vote next week. I'll do it over email.

[Purple Heys]

No one  in any league at any level that plays on a last place team will be considered for a League MVP award.

I might have well expected such an ignorant observation from a Coe-nucklehead...bring on that -k,  baby!

...now slowy, with your lips moving and your fingers tracing reread what I wrote.

I wrote:  "To not mention Chris Gustafson is a disservice to the effort this young man puts out EVERY play EVERY weekend."

There were other defensive players mentioned , 'backers in particular, when we all know that it is extremely unlikely even a defensive standout from a 1st place team will get such an honor; I felt such Gus deserved at least a mention in that group.

By the way ask Andre Dawson how he feels about his 1987 MVP award for the LAST PLACE Cubs.

Rack me!