FB: American Rivers Conference

[footballdaddy]

Over 1000 Students Protest Wartburg College:

http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2009/03/25/news/local/doc49ca3d98b8d3f636088054.txt+

But the article I found the most interesting was in the Chronicle of Higher Education that discussed in detail Wartburg's ENORMOUS debt which is about equal to their endowment.

Seems like they won't be able to buy student-athletes and championships for too many more years to come or their debt will outgrow their endowment and they will really be in trouble.

I still have yet to figure out where Wartburg is "buying" athletes. Having one student there now and another joining him next year I feel I can give an opinion. Yes, one did get an excellent aid package but it was earned with a 4.0 GPA. He also got a similar offer from another IIAC school and one not as good from a third school.  The other one is not competing in athletics but received a similar package to another student that will be competing. So Wartburg must be "buying" a lot of all state music performers too, much to the chagrin of other music programs in the IIAC.

AEN can prbbaly correct me but I believe almost all Wartburg students receive some kind of financial package from the college.  Obviousy, any increase in costs is of great interest to me,but my kids are with me in believing that they will have similar expenses graduating from Wartburg in four years compared to their friends who will graduate from state schools in an average of five years.

I would like to see more money in the bank, but I think all IIAC schools are vulnerable in similar ways.

[dutchfan1]

I don't think anyone disputes financial aid given to students. I would bet that 95% of ALL IIAC students receive some form of financial aid. Most schools work very hard to keep tuition competitive with one another, and as affordable as the state schools with the aid they give to students.

I *think* that people on here take issue with the athletic scholarships, er, "leadership grants" that particular athletes receive. These "leadership grants" (or thinly veiled athletic scholarships) are what some people would consider the purchase price of some of the state's finest athletes that are considering D3 schools in Iowa.

Leadership grants -- is that what they are still called up there? They seem to go to football players and wrestlers, I've heard.

[Gray Fox]

Bernie Carbo....end of story.

Sidd Finch and his 168 mile per hour fastball.  I hope his career as a french horn player was worth it.

I was totally buying that story while reading it in SI way back in the day.  I showed it to my mom and it took her about 2 seconds to realize it was an April Fools joke. 

Maybe that right there was an indicator of my future education at UD...while the rest of my family matriculated to what might be considered more prestigious schools of higher learning

The subhead of the article read: "He's a pitcher, part yogi and part recluse. Impressively liberated from our opulent life-style, Sidd's deciding about yoga — and his future in baseball." The first letters of these words spell out "Happy April Fools Day - ah(a) fib"

[Klompen]

Type, erase, type, erase.  My fingers are itching to type and my brain keeps saying erase.   

[Klopenhiemer]

Lets be for real for a minute.  If we are going to sit around and bull**** each other then lets at least pick a waterhole to meet at that has cold adult drinks.  In this world is getting more and more competitive on every level.  One of the biggest issues that college are facing now is the online programs that the fact that kids do not actually have to set foot on a campus to get a degree anymore. 

Athletics are a big part of every school.  Does Wartburg do some shady things in regards to leadership grants?  Sure they probably do.  But point in the gun in your direction Coe and Central fans.  You guys have had good season in the 2000's.  Are you offering leadership grants?  I will point the gun at myself.  BV has quite the basketball program yet no one goes around spouting off they give leadership grants.  For all I know they do, as does Coe, Central and every other IIAC school that wants to compete. 

Now has Wartburg been a bit more visible at this?  Sure they have, hell they have damn near put them selves in bankruptcy over the "W".  Now all the Wartburgers can jump on and chew my ass about how untrue that is, but there is to much talk about this, to many stores about this, and Ohle leaving does not help the situation. 

I mean come on Central has 450 kids on the football roster, are you telling me they are all Dutch Reformed and really want to stand on the sideline.  There has to be something in the water down there as well. 

[5 Words or Less]

Maybe UIU is buying Wartburg!!!

[dutchfan1]

Look, I'm not saying that Wartburg is any worse than BV, Simpson, Central, or any other school in the conference. It's competitive, sometimes downright cutthroat in this economy, so schools are doing what they have to do. BUT, the perception has been there (for at least the last 10-15 years) that Wartburg is doing something shady and has a way of "purchasing" athletes. That perception was earned one way or another.

It always makes me laugh when people (certain posters in particular) put their hands up in "confusion" and claim they don't know where this reputation comes from. The reputation comes from the way their financial aid office deals with premier athletes. It may or not be a fair stereotype, but it's out there.

[Klopenhiemer]

Look, I'm not saying that Wartburg is any worse than BV, Simpson, Central, or any other school in the conference. It's competitive, sometimes downright cutthroat in this economy, so schools are doing what they have to do. BUT, the perception has been there (for at least the last 10-15 years) that Wartburg is doing something shady and has a way of "purchasing" athletes. That perception was earned one way or another.

It always makes me laugh when people (certain posters in particular) put their hands up in "confusion" and claim they don't know where this reputation comes from. The reputation comes from the way their financial aid office deals with premier athletes. It may or not be a fair stereotype, but it's out there.

I can agree with this completely.  I was merely trying to see if anyone would would come forward from the Wartburg side and defend the school with someone more than "Welcome to 12 years ago"

[doolittledog]

Aren't there rules to this at the D3 level?  I thought there was something out there that athletes have to be within 4-5% of regular students for finantial aid.  For what it's worth, my boss (who is a Wartburg grad) just told me the finantial aid he got from Wartburg made it the same to go there as it would have been to go to UNI.  And he might be even farther away from being an athlete than I am.  He said most every student at Wartburg while he was there were given pretty generous aid grants. 

If a school has a lot of money to throw at students, then great.  If the school is giving more aid to athletes then the general student body, then not so great.  Then again, the ratio of athletes at most D3 schools is pretty high.  So who knows. 

[coocooforcoekohawk]

Maybe UIU is buying Wartburg!!!

Knightcocks, sounds good!

you just subtract the s at the end of Knights and take out the word "are" and we've been calling them that for years.

[sportsknight]

Look, I'm not saying that Wartburg is any worse than BV, Simpson, Central, or any other school in the conference. It's competitive, sometimes downright cutthroat in this economy, so schools are doing what they have to do. BUT, the perception has been there (for at least the last 10-15 years) that Wartburg is doing something shady and has a way of "purchasing" athletes. That perception was earned one way or another.

It always makes me laugh when people (certain posters in particular) put their hands up in "confusion" and claim they don't know where this reputation comes from. The reputation comes from the way their financial aid office deals with premier athletes. It may or not be a fair stereotype, but it's out there.

I can agree with this completely.  I was merely trying to see if anyone would would come forward from the Wartburg side and defend the school with someone more than "Welcome to 12 years ago"

Not sure if that last bit was meant as a slight against me, but I'm going to take it that way and respond.  

In my experience, Wartburg doesn't give special consideration to athletes in the admission/financial aid process any more than it does to any other type of student.  The shear number of Wartburg students that are athletes (as high a percentage as 60% in recent years) goes against that line of thinking.  I'm very good friends with a former Wartburg admissions director, and he could only think of one situation in his 9 years in the admissions department involving where the rules were so much as bent to allow an athlete into school.

The "leadership grants" that we keep hearing referred to are actually called the Wartburg Grant, and there's a fairly high percentage of students that receive that help for no other reason than they need the help.  That said, there have been some situations where students who achieved certain campus positions either received the Grant for the first time, or had the dollar amount of their Wartburg Grant increase.  I didn't get the WG right out of the gate as a freshman, but my junior year when I was Wartburg TV's Station Manager, there it was.  Does that mean that Wartburg is trying to "buy" the best student TV station in the state?

We should be honest with ourselves about these things.  They happen everywhere.  One of my high school classmates played baseball at Loras.  He told me that he received a special scholarship for attending a Catholic elementary school that his older brother, who attended the same elementary school but didn't play baseball, didn't receive.  If Division III schools weren't able to offer significant financial aid packages to all students (not just student athletes), then what would be the incentive to attend a smaller, private school?  Is the education we got in the IIAC that much better than what we would have received at a larger, public school?

So why is "big, bad Wartburg" the target once again?  Well, success leads to speculation.  And if you don't believe me, just ask Mark McGwire, Alex Rodriguez, or the New England Patriots.  Except that in all of those cases, there was actual wrongdoing to be found.  On second thought, ask Lance Armstrong.  His sport is one of the dirtiest in the world, and he dominated it like no other.  He was investigated time and time again, and has probably pissed in more cups that all of us combined, but nothing has ever stuck to him.

[sportsknight]

Maybe UIU is buying Wartburg!!!

Knightcocks, sounds good!

you just subtract the s at the end of Knights and take out the word "are" and we've been calling them that for years.

Or just precede it with "Coe girls love..."

[footballdaddy]

Thanks SK for expanding on the points I was trying to make. I can only comment on what I know to be true. In my experoence if there was any evidence of questionable student aid, it came from a school other than Wartburg.

[Kohawk Remedy]

Look, I'm not saying that Wartburg is any worse than BV, Simpson, Central, or any other school in the conference. It's competitive, sometimes downright cutthroat in this economy, so schools are doing what they have to do. BUT, the perception has been there (for at least the last 10-15 years) that Wartburg is doing something shady and has a way of "purchasing" athletes. That perception was earned one way or another.

It always makes me laugh when people (certain posters in particular) put their hands up in "confusion" and claim they don't know where this reputation comes from. The reputation comes from the way their financial aid office deals with premier athletes. It may or not be a fair stereotype, but it's out there.

I can agree with this completely.  I was merely trying to see if anyone would would come forward from the Wartburg side and defend the school with someone more than "Welcome to 12 years ago"

Not sure if that last bit was meant as a slight against me, but I'm going to take it that way and respond.  

In my experience, Wartburg doesn't give special consideration to athletes in the admission/financial aid process any more than it does to any other type of student.  The shear number of Wartburg students that are athletes (as high a percentage as 60% in recent years) goes against that line of thinking.  I'm very good friends with a former Wartburg admissions director, and he could only think of one situation in his 9 years in the admissions department involving where the rules were so much as bent to allow an athlete into school.

hmmm....could this have a couple of years ago? maybe giving a "special package" to an incoming student? 

[Klopenhiemer]

Look, I'm not saying that Wartburg is any worse than BV, Simpson, Central, or any other school in the conference. It's competitive, sometimes downright cutthroat in this economy, so schools are doing what they have to do. BUT, the perception has been there (for at least the last 10-15 years) that Wartburg is doing something shady and has a way of "purchasing" athletes. That perception was earned one way or another.

It always makes me laugh when people (certain posters in particular) put their hands up in "confusion" and claim they don't know where this reputation comes from. The reputation comes from the way their financial aid office deals with premier athletes. It may or not be a fair stereotype, but it's out there.

I can agree with this completely.  I was merely trying to see if anyone would would come forward from the Wartburg side and defend the school with someone more than "Welcome to 12 years ago"

Not sure if that last bit was meant as a slight against me, but I'm going to take it that way and respond.  

In my experience, Wartburg doesn't give special consideration to athletes in the admission/financial aid process any more than it does to any other type of student.  The shear number of Wartburg students that are athletes (as high a percentage as 60% in recent years) goes against that line of thinking.  I'm very good friends with a former Wartburg admissions director, and he could only think of one situation in his 9 years in the admissions department involving where the rules were so much as bent to allow an athlete into school.

The "leadership grants" that we keep hearing referred to are actually called the Wartburg Grant, and there's a fairly high percentage of students that receive that help for no other reason than they need the help.  That said, there have been some situations where students who achieved certain campus positions either received the Grant for the first time, or had the dollar amount of their Wartburg Grant increase.  I didn't get the WG right out of the gate as a freshman, but my junior year when I was Wartburg TV's Station Manager, there it was.  Does that mean that Wartburg is trying to "buy" the best student TV station in the state?

We should be honest with ourselves about these things.  They happen everywhere.  One of my high school classmates played baseball at Loras.  He told me that he received a special scholarship for attending a Catholic elementary school that his older brother, who attended the same elementary school but didn't play baseball, didn't receive.  If Division III schools weren't able to offer significant financial aid packages to all students (not just student athletes), then what would be the incentive to attend a smaller, private school?  Is the education we got in the IIAC that much better than what we would have received at a larger, public school?

So why is "big, bad Wartburg" the target once again?  Well, success leads to speculation.  And if you don't believe me, just ask Mark McGwire, Alex Rodriguez, or the New England Patriots.  Except that in all of those cases, there was actual wrongdoing to be found.  On second thought, ask Lance Armstrong.  His sport is one of the dirtiest in the world, and he dominated it like no other.  He was investigated time and time again, and has probably pissed in more cups that all of us combined, but nothing has ever stuck to him.

SK my post was not directed at your entirely.  I did find a bit amusing when Willie U bring something to the table that was not discussed on this board and then he gets the "Welcome to 3 weeks ago treatment". 

My post agreed with a lot of your points.  I do think that every IIAC does give some type of special grants from time to time to get the right student athlete or student in the door.  It no different in the music or art department.  Its just those are much less visible departments.  Believe it or not students athletes are usually given the benefit of the doubt on every campus including Wartburg.  Nobody wants to come down on a stud unless he makes a huge mistake.  Being a student athlete you have the backing of the coaching staff and their connections to help in sticky situations.  They are much more visible people on campus, thus can get away with some things time to time. 

Do I think that Wartburg was trying to buy the best student run radio station in the state no.  I think you probably showed you were worth your salt so you were rewarded.  Nothing wrong with that. 

The big bad Wartburg thing gets old to me.  I will be honest, I have no issue with any of the Wartburgers on here.  But let me tell you this.  9 kids went to Wartburg from my class.  Everyone one of them returned as the biggest prick  you had ever seen.  My uncle who went to Wartburg is a prick.  Its be orange, its be Wartburg, its were the best suck on our rear ends.  Thats the reason you guys get the knock that you do.  Every time I visited Waverly while I was at BV I could smell the arrogance coming from a mile away.  I was on every campus in the IIAC and spent multiple nights visiting friends at 7 of the schools in the conference.  Wartburg was the only one that made me throw up.  But SK, I do not feel that way about you, daddy, hoover, or warthog.