FB: American Rivers Conference

[Willie University]

You can have a great running QB who is not an accurate thrower and you can contain him.  He is predictable. 

That is not true. Jermar Jackson was a great running QB and an average passer at best and NO ONE could contain him and he was certainly not predictable.

Willie U

In UD's history and record books, Shawn Tate was a ten times better passer then Jermar Jackson, but not so gifted running the ball. Tate made a 1st team all american WR out of matt plummer his freshman year and if I remember correctly, his 2 other weapons also came close to 1000 yards.

Tate and Jackson were the best QB's UD has ever had and litter the record books at UD and I believe some IIAC records still stand as well. They were VERY different QB's for sure.

I think in the pros, you have to have a better passing QB to be successful. At this level and even D2 and D1, either will work because the game is so much slower at all positions then in the Pros.  Of course, the pro teams are made from the BEST of all college athletes and ALL of them are fast at their positions which makes the "passing" component of being a QB more important.

[desertgator]

I looked back at Jemar's best season and UD lost 4 games.  In those 4 games he was contained.  He averaged just over 50 yards rushing and at least two turnovers just glancing at the stats.  Although he did seem to complete passes at a higher percent??? (at least for him)  He was obviously an exceptional athlete and should be proud of his accomplishments, as should all alum from the school.  Good year.

[Willie University]

I looked back at Jemar's best season and UD lost 4 games.  In those 4 games he was contained.  He averaged just over 50 yards rushing and at least two turnovers just glancing at the stats.  Although he did seem to complete passes at a higher percent??? (at least for him)  He was obviously an exceptional athlete and should be proud of his accomplishments, as should all alum from the school.  Good year.

Actually, his best season UD went 7-3. The year before he was 6-4. Both years tied for 3rd in the IIAC. This could of course be a debate that we would have to end up agreeing to disagree. I am sure Central faithful will say they had a very difficult time containing Jermar even though they ended up beating UD in triple over time one of those years as would other IIAC teams that beat us those years.

And 50 yards for a QB rushing is still pretty dang good. I don't debate that a running QB can't be contained period but at this level, either a running QB or passing QB can be great and you can't just make an all-inclusive statement about being able to contain one easier then another. If Jermar was containable, then UD wouldn't have gone from cellar dweller to 3rd in the conference 2 years in a row. In fact, without Jermar, some would say we would have stayed in the cellar.

And yes, as an alum, I am proud of his and all Spartan accomplishments.
Willie U

[desertgator]

Willie U, I like your passion.  He was a difference maker.  Hopefully UD has a great year other than the Cornell game! ha ha

[Ram2]

That just goes to show that being able to run the ball successfully in the IIAC plays a huge part to winning in the IIAC!!

Just look at the 2004 Luther team. Once Sheridan moved to RB full-time, which was at game 5. In that span they/we went 5-1.  Granted as a team they played as well as anybody in the league  in all aspects of the game offense, defense, and special teams, but him averaging just over 175 ypg in that span definitely helped make things easier on both sides of the ball!!!! Field position for the defense and clock management for the O. And might I say, team moral was very high!!!!! believe me I was there!!

[Ram2]

I looked back at Jemar's best season and UD lost 4 games.  In those 4 games he was contained.  He averaged just over 50 yards rushing and at least two turnovers just glancing at the stats.  Although he did seem to complete passes at a higher percent??? (at least for him)  He was obviously an exceptional athlete and should be proud of his accomplishments, as should all alum from the school.  Good year.

Actually, his best season UD went 7-3. The year before he was 6-4. Both years tied for 3rd in the IIAC. This could of course be a debate that we would have to end up agreeing to disagree. I am sure Central faithful will say they had a very difficult time containing Jermar even though they ended up beating UD in triple over time one of those years as would other IIAC teams that beat us those years.

And 50 yards for a QB rushing is still pretty dang good. I don't debate that a running QB can't be contained period but at this level, either a running QB or passing QB can be great and you can't just make an all-inclusive statement about being able to contain one easier then another. If Jermar was containable, then UD wouldn't have gone from cellar dweller to 3rd in the conference 2 years in a row. In fact, without Jermar, some would say we would have stayed in the cellar.

And yes, as an alum, I am proud of his and all Spartan accomplishments.
Willie U

I totally agree!!!!

[desertgator]

RAM2 are you coming back this year?  If not are you going to coach somewhere?

[Purple Heys]

The Spread can be shown to work 2 ways...


Exhibit A.
When triggered by an effective passing QB, it is a pass first offense where running effectively when necessary is set up by the passing attack.
Examples in the IIAC are Central '07 (QB, Connell), Wartburg '08 (QB, Yordi).  Connell was a very adept passer who could run effectively...Yordi is an even better runner though maybe not quite the passer as Connell was.  Either way both led their teams to National Quarterfinal finishes.

Exhibit B.
When triggered by an effective running QB, it is a run first offense where passing effectively when necessary is set up by the threat of the run.
Example Jermar Jackson, UD '07.  Jackson was a powerful runner, though not especially accurate as downfield thrower, when throwing shorter routes, on a defense committed to stopping him, this created mismatches on the outside and led to a season where they took an undefeated Central team to 3 OT's.

IMHO the benefit of A over B, should you be fortunate enough to have such a talent, is that no lead is safe and comeback victories are more likely.  One merely has to review the '07 Dutch and the '08 Kaniggets' seasons to see the proof.

The fact is that running teams will always have difficulty playing catch up.

[Purple Heys]

So the flip side is...

Is a passing offense good for one's defense.  Incomplete passes stop the clock and get no positive yards.  Your defense more likely spends more time on the field, wearing down. 

What do you defensive guys think about having to back a passing offense?

Lastly, a passing team is more susceptable to the weather.  Not a problem in San Diego...could be an issue in Iowa.

[warthog]

On another issue: Old number 76 is getting hitched, congratulations JV.

[MediaGuy]

Let me first say that I have followed this board and the IIAC for over ten years and this is my first post.  My involvement with a certain team in the conference has prohibited by participation in the chat although I do love the spirited conversation.  That being said, It would be unethical for me to offer opinions or insight due to the aformentioned involvement, but I would love to share any public information or national media info that pertains to the IIAC, and I would also voulonteer my services as a non-parcial moderatior for any statistical or informational "arguements".

So as my first official informational update, the first pre-season polls are out.  Granted the accuracy and genuine research that goes into these pre-season polls is questionable, because both of these magazines commit more pages to pictures of cheerleaders than coverage of D3 football, here they are:

Lindy's 2009 Football D3 Poll
1. Mount Union
2. UW-Whitewater
3. North Central
4. Delaware Valley
5. Monmouth
6. St. John's
7. Mary Hardin-Baylor
8. St. Thomas
9. Willamette
10. Ithaca
11. Otterbein
12. Rowan
13. Central
14. Wartburg
15. Hardin-Simmons
16. Occidental
17. Washington & Jefferson
18. North Carolina Wesleyan
19. Wabash
20. Aurora
21. Franklin
22. Rensselaer
23. Redlands
24. Johns Hopkins
25.Trine

No IIAC Players named to either First or Second team pre-season All-American

Sporting News 2009 D3 Pre-Season Poll
1. UW-Whitewater
2. Mount Union
3. St. John's
4. Mary Hardin-Bayor
5. Delaware Valley
6. Rowan
7. Hardin-Simmons
8. North Central
9. Wartburg
10. Wabash
11. Monmouth
12. Curry
13. Washington & Jefferson
14. Christopher Newport
15. Wesley
16. Bridgewater (Va.)
17. Hobart
18. Johns Hopokins
19. Wheaton (Ill.)
20. Case Western Reserve
21. Cortland
22. Redlands
23. UW-La Crosse
24. Lycoming
25. Otterbein

Central included in the "Teams to Watch"

Punter Kurtis Brondyke listed as First team All-American

Sorry for the long post, I will now sit back and invite the spirited discussion begin.

[doolittledog]

Welcome to the board.  I love stats and more stats, so keep it coming. 

I think Wartburg is in about the right place.  Central, in the Lindy's poll is probably there on reputation.  I think the Sporting News poll is correct to list Central as a "team to watch"  With the history the Dutch have that would make sense.   

[dutchfan1]

MediaGuy -- welcome to the board!

Lindy's did exactly what they do every year -- that take a list of the usual suspects from the last 15-20 years and puts them on a list with no particular rationale for the order. D3 is such an afterthought to them -- as long as Mt. Union claims the top spot, the rest will sort itself out.

Sporting News looks like the put a little more thought and research into their poll. Interesting. There are several teams that I think are probably too high... #3 St. John's, #8 North Central, #9 Wartburg (sorry guys), #22 Redlands....I don't know. I guess we'll see how the season shakes out.

[DBQ1965]

Willie U ...

I appreciated your comments regarding Tate and Jackson as the best QBs ever for UD ... but era by era or generation by generation, I would say they were among the best.

For example, in the mid-60s, UD had a transfer from the Air Force Academy by the name of Paul Krause.  He re-wrote the record books at the time (still is listed among the Top Ten UD QBs statistically) and I'm pretty sure was All-Conference his senior year.  At the time, he was "the best" ... now among the best ... along with players like Tate and Jackson.

REMEMBER THE SPARTANS!

95 Day until kick-off! 8)

[Willie University]

Willie U ...

I appreciated your comments regarding Tate and Jackson as the best QBs ever for UD ... but era by era or generation by generation, I would say they were among the best.

For example, in the mid-60s, UD had a transfer from the Air Force Academy by the name of Paul Krause.  He re-wrote the record books at the time (still is listed among the Top Ten UD QBs statistically) and I'm pretty sure was All-Conference his senior year.  At the time, he was "the best" ... now among the best ... along with players like Tate and Jackson.

REMEMBER THE SPARTANS!

95 Day until kick-off! 8)

I went to one of my old programs to look up the records.....

The top 4 all time passers at UD were:
Shawn Tate- 6395 (3 years at UD)
Jermar Jackson- 5839 (4 years at UD)
Roger Waialee- 4127 (2 years at UD)
Paul Krause- 3634 (2 years at UD)

So, based on that info, I think it is hard to say who the BEST was? Tate had the most career yards but who knows what Krause and Waialee would have done if they would have played for 4 years? BUT, for that matter, Tate actually didn't start until like the 3rd game of his 1st season and missed some time to injury in one of the other seasons. In total, I think he played in maybe 25 games.

I will stand by Tate as the BEST passing QB UD has ever had with Waialee and Krause as close 2nd's and Jackson as the 4th best passing QB and best Running QB.

Willie U