FB: American Rivers Conference

[Purple Heys]

I am by no means an expert, but I have officiated Football, Basketball, and Baseball for 20+ years; I have been the UIC (Umpire in Chief) for the local Little Leagues...it doesn't attest to my skill or lack thereof, but I do have some experience.  As an official you need to MAKE the call.

In baseball, you signal FAIR/FOUL, SAFE/OUT, or STRIKE so there is no confusion;

In Basketball, you hit the Whistle and raise your hand;

And in Football, YOU THROW THE FLAG, YOUR BEAN BAG, YOUR HAT, OR ANY LOOSE ARTICLE OF CLOTHING so there is NO DOUBT a call has been made.

A Head Linesman or  Line Judge doesn't amble on over to the Referee and converse in secret about a call he was thinking of making.

If I'm the Referee in that game, at that point (and really anytime) I ask, "Where's the Flag?"

No Flag, no call...especially not at that point in the game.  If you don't have the conviction to MAKE the call, there was no call to be made.

[5 Words or Less]

A new conference for Cornell, Coe and Luther?
Posted on Nov 18, 2009 Cedar Rapids Gazette Online by Jeff Johnson.

OK, that's jumping the gun. Maybe by a lot.

But there is a president's meeting next week of the 14 schools that comprise the Associated Colleges of the Midwest and on the agenda is the possible creation of a new NCAA Division III athletics conference. The 14 schools in the ACM include Iowa Conference members Cornell, Coe and Luther, as well as Grinnell.

Others are Beloit, Carleton, Colorado College, Knox, Lake Forest, Lawrence, Macalester, Monmouth (Ill.), Ripon and St. Olaf.

To explain further, the ACM, according to its Web site, is a "consortium of academically excellent, independent liberal arts colleges located in Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Colorado." There has been previous discussion about some or all of the ACM schools breaking off and forming their own athletics conference, and apparently there will be more next week.

"There's not a lot to say about this ACM conference issue," Cornell President Leslie Garner said in a voice-mail message to The Gazette. "The ACM is an academic consortium, and periodically the issue of whether we should consider an athletic conference comes up. It's been on the table for some time.

"The question is are we going to take it off the table and consider it more seriously? I won't know much more about that until after that meeting next week."

Luther has been a longstanding member of the nine-school Iowa Conference, while Coe and Cornell joined in 1998. While Coe has enjoyed widespread IIAC success, Cornell has not.

"We knew that there were some serious discussions going on last summer and over the early fall," IIAC Commissioner Chuck Yrigoyen said of the ACM. "But we have been under the impression those talks were dead.

"We'd hate to see them go. Unfortunately schools make those decisions, and that's the way it is."

Stay tuned for more.

[DutchFan2004]

I felt kind of bad for Central.  UMHB had to be the toughest draw ...

We felt sorry for ourselves with the draw too, wish it could have come in a later round as we are better than a "1 and done" playoff team, but that's the breaks.  You have to take what they give you and do your best.  We have had some tough early round draws, like the year we had to go to UWW first round.   

Wishing this or that had gone differently doesn't change the results.  UMHB was the better team on that day, but proud to say that be it the 2001 team at Linfield or this Central team against UMHB, our backs might be to the wall, but we never quit playing.

Well said I think that if you want to be the best you have to win against the best and UMHB was one of the best.  Yes with other matchups we may have had more games but if you lose along the way you are done.  Hopefully this will make the underclassmen hungry and work harder. 

[doolittledog]

5WOL, what's your take on that article?  It's been getting some talk on this board.  We know it was brought up on here earlier this fall.  Is this something that is going to happen?  And if it is.  What would be the advantages for those schools to form their own conference?  I just don't see any. 

[5 Words or Less]

5WOL, what's your take on that article?  It's been getting some talk on this board.  We know it was brought up on here earlier this fall.  Is this something that is going to happen?  And if it is.  What would be the advantages for those schools to form their own conference?  I just don't see any. 

Not sure what to think.

[DutchFan2004]

Two things:

About officials and their calls or non-calls.  I was talking with my youngest brother yesterday ... he is a H.S. ref in California.  His crew was officiating a play-off game Friday night and one of the crew called a pass-interference which Mike said was a bad call ... resulting in lots of boos.  Later in the game, the same official called another penalty against the same team, and one of that team's fans in the stands yelled out:  "Good call ref ... but you still stink!"

About Central and St. John's fans on here.  Maybe its only my IIAC prejudice, but it seems to me that Central fans are taking their loss far more classier than the Johnnie fans are.  When you are accustomed to winning, a loss can be pretty hard to take.  But the Dutch fans on here are doing it in style. 

And finally ... GO COE!

Thanks for the ckind words for Dutch Nation.  When you get beat you get beat take your hat off to the winner and move on.  You can't change the outcome.  As for the Johnnie fans there are lots of decent guys that are Johnnie fans.  They like to dish it out and they can take it for the most part.  There are some that that are not good fans and think that they are superior.  For the most part I think they are few and far between but there are some bad fans.  We al have bad fans don't think as a whole the Johnnies are bad fans.  

[DutchFan2004]

5WOL, what's your take on that article?  It's been getting some talk on this board.  We know it was brought up on here earlier this fall.  Is this something that is going to happen?  And if it is.  What would be the advantages for those schools to form their own conference?  I just don't see any. 

Not sure what to think.

Not sure what to think either but when you look at the distance for those schools if they did make a new conference they would really be looking at some long distances and larger expenses to play the games.  I don't see Luther wanting to end such a long association with the IIAC.  Cornell is the only team that I could see ending as they have not had much success in the IIAC.  Coe has had some success so I don't see they leaving either. 

[Purple Heys]

When I'm the Crew Chief in any game...I tell my guys make the call you see.  If there is an issue we get together and sort it out.

If there is no laundry on the field, then there is no call.  Play on.

I don't think Central could have taken advantage and won...but it's a pity, to me, that a weak-kneed official didn't have the kahookies to drop a flag and then went and reported the infraction (misinformed of the rule apparently and no less!) and that robbed us fans on both sides of 2 or 3 more plays and one of the more exciting finishes to a college football game.  Imagine those last plays...

This was not a bang-bang play.  They had time to think, time to know the rule and still made the wrong call.  In the SEC and the Pac-10 crews get put on timeouts.  These guys' names should be withdrawn from post season work next year.  These aren't volunteers.

[Walston Hoover]

OK, been swamped the last week catching up from football season.
Can someone explain to me what happended on Central's onside kick? It will take too long to go back through and read it.
I know in HS the kicker can be offside to kick it. Ankeny's kicker lines up a yard or 2 past the 40 and takes a banana-type route to the ball.

Someone posted the relevant portion of the rule book, and it would seem that that was just a blown call.  Seemingly, neither the kicker or the holder (if any) can EVER be offside.

OK, been swamped the last week catching up from football season.
Can someone explain to me what happended on Central's onside kick? It will take too long to go back through and read it.
I know in HS the kicker can be offside to kick it. Ankeny's kicker lines up a yard or 2 past the 40 and takes a banana-type route to the ball.

Someone posted the relevant portion of the rule book, and it would seem that that was just a blown call.  Seemingly, neither the kicker or the holder (if any) can EVER be offside.

Yes. I knew that was the issue in HS, but didn't know how the rule applied to NCAA.  How does that call get blown? That is worse than Iowa in their bowl game with Florida a few years ago. And I hate the Hawks.

[DutchFan2004]

When I'm the Crew Chief in any game...I tell my guys make the call you see.  If there is an issue we get together and sort it out.

If there is no laundry on the field, then there is no call.  Play on.

I don't think Central could have taken advantage and won...but it's a pity, to me, that a weak-kneed official didn't have the kahookies to drop a flag and then went and reported the infraction (misinformed of the rule apparently and no less!) and that robbed us fans on both sides of 2 or 3 more plays and one of the more exciting finishes to a college football game.  Imagine those last plays...

This was not a bang-bang play.  They had time to think, time to know the rule and still made the wrong call.  In the SEC and the Pac-10 crews get put on timeouts.  These guys' names should be withdrawn from post season work next year.  These aren't volunteers.

One thing we always say when reffing games at any level.  Make sure what you have before you call it. 

[Charlie Kohawk]

Football season isn't even over yet, and already Wartburg's roster has been removed from its Web site. I find this curious since rosters for other fall sports remain. Regardless, I took the liberty of downloading the roster before it was removed. Any football recruits wondering where they might stack up on the Knight roster can look here:

2    Jourdan Cousin    DB    5-11    181    Jr.    Spencer , Iowa /Spencer
2    Eric Kist    DB    5-8    166    Fr.    Eagle Grove , Iowa /Eagle Grove
3    Matt Gustafson    WR    5-8    153    Jr.    Faribault , Minn. / Faribault
4    Josh VandenHul    DB    5-9    164    So.    N. Sioux City , S.D./Dakota Valley
5    Andrew Creary    DB    6-1    203    Jr.    Knoxville , Iowa / Knoxville
5    Torrence Harris    DB    5-11    165    Fr.    Chicago , Ill. / Lyons Township
6    Matt Wickert    WR    6-1    189    Jr.    Memphis , Mo. / Scotland County
6    Connor Dahlstrom    DB    5-11    165    Fr.    Eldridge, Iowa/North Scott
7    Clint Donovan    WR    5-10    182    Sr.    Solon, Iowa/Solon
8    Josh Mugge    LB    6-0    194    Jr.    Cherokee, Iowa/Washington
8    Ross Wiersma    WR    6-2   200    So.    Sibley, Iowa/Sibley-Ocheyedan
9    Alex Boom    RB    5-11    195    Sr.    Manchester , Iowa / West Delaware
10    Nick Yordi    QB    6-2    180    Sr.    Solon, Iowa/Solon
10    Ethan Charley    DB    5-9    152    Fr.    Reinbeck, Iowa/Gladbrook-Reinbeck
11    Jason Roskam    WR    6-1    185    Jr.    Sioux Center , Iowa / Sioux Center
12    Dustin Broshous    QB    6-5    189    So.    Stockton , Ill. /Stockton
13    Ghaffar Dairo    RB    5-11    193    Fr.    Calumet City , Ill. /Thornwood
14    Trent Rasmussen    QB    5-11    170    Jr.    Clarion, Iowa/Clarion-Goldfield
15    Brandon Moeller    DB    5-9    169    Jr.    Fort Dodge , Iowa / Fort Dodge
15    Will Indianos    QB    5-9    172    Fr.    Gainesville , Fla. /Oak Hill
16    Marcus Williams    K    5-8    165    So.    Council Bluffs , Iowa /Abraham Lincoln
16    Ryan Wurtz    QB    6-6    195    Fr.    Milford , Iowa /Okoboji
17    Mark Lueschow    DB    6-2    205    Fr.    Cresco , Iowa /Crestwood
17    Dan Mysnyk    WR    5-8    137    Fr.    Iowa City , Iowa /City
18    Dan Marshall    QB    6-1    193    Fr.    Manchester , Iowa / West Delaware
18    Mike Polaski    K    5-8    165    Sr.    Cedar Rapids , Iowa / Jefferson
19    Bryan Woods    WR    6-1    182    So.    Oelwein , Iowa /Oelwein
20    Tony Stenberg    DB    5-11    183    Fr.    Atkins , Iowa / Benton Community
20    David Hoehne    DB    5-7    154    Fr.    Elma , Iowa /Crestwood
21    David Brooks    DB    6-2    187    So.    Bettendorf , Iowa / Bettendorf
21    Aaron Zetterlund   DB    6-1   180   Fr.   Keokuk. Iowa/Keokuk
22    Levi Helbling    WR    6-0    173    So.    Malvern , Iowa /East Mills
22    Curt Hruska    WR    5-11    161    Fr.    New Hampton , Iowa /New Hampton
23    Brandon Sims    WR    6-1   178    Fr.    South Holland , Ill. /Walther Lutheran
23    John Burnett    DB    5-10    178    Fr.    Des Moines , Iowa /Dowling
24    Ben Rector    LB    6-0    187    So.    Carlisle , Iowa / Carlisle
24    Julious Calderon   RB   6-0   180   Fr.   Des Moines, Iowa/Lincoln
25    John Mallen    DB    5-8    160    So.    Britt , Iowa /West Hancock
26    Riley Anderson    DB    5-10    162    Fr.    Dubuque , Iowa / Hempstead
27    Tyson Sulzberger    LB    5-9    190    Sr.    Muscatine , Iowa / Muscatine
27    Nathan Moeller    DB    5-11    165    Fr.    Fort Dodge , Iowa / Fort Dodge
28    Antwon Harris    WR    5-7    145    Fr.    Naperville , Ill. / Naperville Central
28    Ilyas Qawishabazz    RB    6-0    220    Fr.    Chicago , Ill. /King College Prep
29    Andy Schmidt    LB    5-10    190    Jr.    Solon, Iowa/Solon
30    Devin White    K/P    6-1    178    Jr.    Decorah , Iowa /Decorah
31    Logan Hansen    LB   6-1   202   So.   Glenville, Minn./Glenville-Emmons
32    Kyle Winfrey    RB    5-11    197    Fr.    Richton Park , Ill. /Rich Central
33    Reese Thompson    RB    6-1   166    Fr.    Van Horne , Iowa / Benton Community
34    Chris Reddick    RB    5-9    170    Fr.    Naperville , Ill. / Wheaton Academy
35    Chad Jensen    LB    5-7    179    Fr.    Iowa City , Iowa /West
36    Scott Hruska    DB   5-10   170   Fr.   New Hampton, Iowa/New Hampton
36    Garrett McGrane    DB    6-2    180    Fr.    Fairbanks , Iowa / Wapsie Valley
37    Spencer Policha    DB    6-0    185    Sr.    Clinton , Iowa /Clinton
38    Deonte Brown    RB    5-10    216    Fr.    LaGrange Park , Ill. / Lyons Township
39    Ryan Staack    DB    5-9    154    Fr.    Shell Rock, Iowa/Waverly-Shell Rock
39    Robby Salmon    P    6-0    202    So.    Mason City , Iowa / Mason City
41    Devin Reese    LB    5-9    182    Fr.    Cedar Rapids , Iowa / Washington
42    Colin Egan    RB    5-10    217    So.    Waukon , Iowa /Waukon
43    Josh Wegmann    TE    6-3    225    Sr.    Epworth , Iowa / Western Dubuque
44    Todd Sampson    TE    6-1   223    Sr.    Nevada , Iowa/Nevada
45    Justin Denner    LB    5-11    186    So.    Waverly, Iowa/Waverly-Shell Rock
45    Whitley Teslow    LB   6-1   176   Fr.   Decorah, Iowa/Decorah
46    Mitch Blythe    FB/TE    6-2    239    Jr.    Central City, Iowa /Central City
47    Blake Suckow    LB    6-3    210    Jr.    West Union , Iowa / North Fayette
48    Chase Reding    LB    6-2    215    So.    Algona , Iowa /Bishop Garrigan
49    Matt Tschetter    LB    6-2    208    So.    Milford , Iowa /Okoboji
50    Jesup Fritsch    LB    5-10    209    So.    Dubuque , Iowa / Hempstead
51    Schylor Altenhofen    DL    5-9    193    Fr.    Wellman, Iowa/Mid-Prairie
51    Brandon Petersen    DL    6-0    207    Sr.    Atlantic , Iowa / Atlantic
52    Jason Shupp    LB    6-1   210    Fr.    Cedar Rapids , Iowa /Kennedy
53    Jim Ruport    DL    6-1    216    Jr.    Urbana, Iowa/Center Point-Urbana
54    Mike Gurius    OL    5-11    265    Sr.    Alleman , Iowa /North Polk
54    Willie Beeler    OL    5-11    214    Fr.    Dolliver, Iowa/Armstrong-Ringsted
55    Aaron Majerus    DL    6-3    202    Fr.    Oelwein , Iowa /Oelwein
56    Cody Iverson    DL    6-2    215    So.    New Hampton/New Hampton
57    Josh Franzen    LB    6-3    196    So.    Elgin , Iowa / North Fayette
58    Braden Kos    LB    5-11    186    Jr.    Wellman, Iowa/Mid-Prairie
58    Justin Perry    LB    6-2    213    Fr.    Indianola , Iowa /Indianola
60    Connor Jones    DL    5-10    206    Sr.    Colfax, Iowa/Prairie City-Monroe
60    Patrick Kolker    DL    5-11    218    Fr.    Clear Lake , Iowa / Clear Lake
61    Jon Orr    OL    6-2    276    So.    Coggon , Iowa / Maquoketa Valley
62    Alex Covington    OL    5-11    239    Fr.    Ankeny , Iowa / Ankeny
63    Bryan Mueller    OL    6-1    269    Jr.    Postville , Iowa /Postville
64    Zach Samson    OL    6-2    269    Jr.    Atkins , Iowa / Benton Community
65    Morgan O'Connor    OL    6-0    253    Jr.    Fort Dodge , Iowa / Fort Dodge
65    Nevin Lansing    LB    6-5    190    Fr.    West Union , Iowa / North Fayette
66    Chad Crawford    DL    5-9    239    Fr.    Galena , Ill. / Galena
67    Tony Brown    OL    6-2    289    Sr.    Manchester , Iowa / West Delaware
68    Spenser Herkelman    OL    6-5    289    Jr.    Maquoketa , Iowa /Maquoketa
68    Jake Keppy    LB    6-2    187    Fr.    Durant , Iowa /Durant
69    Joe Muldoon    OL    6-4    231    Sr.    Des Moines , Iowa / Hoover
70    Ethan Kraft    OL    6-5    242    So.    Lime Springs , Iowa /Crestwood
71    Adam Pedersen    OL    6-5    247    Jr.    Jefferson, Iowa/Jefferson-Scranton
72    Andy Larsen    OL    6-2    215    Fr.    Ankeny , Iowa / Ankeny
73    Lucas Rorah    DL    6-2    213    So.    Delmar , Iowa /Northeast
73    Jordan Young    OL    6-1    304    Fr.    Cedar Rapids , Iowa / Washington
74    Kevin Huss    OL    6-4    263    So.    Ashton , Iowa /Sheldon
75    Colton Hahle    OL    6-4    337    Fr.    Mason City , Iowa / Mason City
75    Ryan Mertens    K    6-0    194    Fr.    Grinnell , Iowa /Grinnell
76    Caleb Dillon    OL    6-0    239    Fr.    Dakota Dunes, S.D./Dakota Valley
77    Mike Havertape    OL    6-2    275    Sr.    Ryan , Iowa / West Delaware
78    Kyle Huss    OL    6-4    250    So.    Ashton , Iowa /Sheldon
79    Travis Vlantes    OL    6-4    265    Sr.    Mason City , Iowa / Mason City
80    P.J. Mott    WR    6-3    237    Jr.    Story City, Iowa/Roland-Story
80    Jacob Schrom    TE    6-4    219    So.    Janesville , Minn. /JWP
81    Josh Kruel    WR    6-1    169    Fr.    Warrenville , Ill. / Wheaton Academy
82    Alex Ross    WR    6-2    205    Sr.    Epworth , Iowa / Western Dubuque
82    Ryan Winder    WR    6-3   165    So.    Mount Vernon , Iowa / Mount Vernon
83    Austin Cole    TE    6-5    215    Jr.    Manchester , Iowa / West Delaware
84    D.J. Looft    WR    6-3    177    Fr.    Armstrong, Iowa/Armstrong-Ringsted
85    Dan Petullo    WR    6-0    184    Fr.    Waterloo , Iowa /West
85    Derek Wood    K    6-1    191    Fr.    Reinbeck, Iowa/Gladbrook-Reinbeck
86    Robert Nichols    WR    6-2    185    Sr.    Ottumwa , Iowa / Ottumwa
87    Seth Smith    TE    6-2    190    Fr.    Davenport , Iowa /West
88    Jon Housholder    WR    6-3    198    So.    West Des Moines , Iowa /Waukee
89    Reed Pedersen    K/P    6-3    207    So.    Jefferson, Iowa/Jefferson-Scranton
90    Derek Snakenberg    DL    6-3    232    Jr.    Sigourney, Iowa/Sigourney-Keota
91    Jared Olson    DL    6-2    211    Jr.    Waterloo , Iowa /West
92    Corey Turner    DL    5-10   246   Fr.   Waterloo, Iowa/East
93    Drew Bowers    DL    5-11    218    Sr.    Waterloo , Iowa /West
93    Brok Dawley    DL    6-3    200    Fr.    Montezuma, Iowa/Montezuma
94    Ross Naylor    DL    6-2    200    Fr.    Ankeny , Iowa / Ankeny
95    Dain Dockter    DL    6-2    234    Sr.    Madison , Wis. /Middleton
95    Tanner Shonka    DL    6-2   215   So.   Tripoli, Iowa/Tripoli
96    Nilan Lansing    DL    6-1    237    Jr.    West Union , Iowa / North Fayette
97    Ben Knutson    DL    6-3    212    Sr.    St. Charles , Iowa/Interstate 35 ( Truro )
98    Jared Tucker    DL    6-1    240    Sr.    Strawberry Point , Iowa /Starmont
99    Jordan Anderson    DL    6-2    225    So.    Williams, Iowa/Northeast Hamilton

[DutchTackle]

I'm not sure I'm too impressed with officiating mechanics that suggest you throw out any loose article of clothing.  The rule on freekicks is pretty clearly stated: "When the ball is kicked, all members of the kicking team must be behind the ball with the exception of the kicker and the holder."  Don't let my online name fool you - I have no connections with Central."
Previous post was correct, if there's no flag on the ground-there's no penalty!

DutchTackle

I am by no means an expert, but I have officiated Football, Basketball, and Baseball for 20+ years; I have been the UIC (Umpire in Chief) for the local Little Leagues...it doesn't attest to my skill or lack thereof, but I do have some experience.  As an official you need to MAKE the call.

In baseball, you signal FAIR/FOUL, SAFE/OUT, or STRIKE so there is no confusion;

In Basketball, you hit the Whistle and raise your hand;

And in Football, YOU THROW THE FLAG, YOUR BEAN BAG, YOUR HAT, OR ANY LOOSE ARTICLE OF CLOTHING so there is NO DOUBT a call has been made.

A Head Linesman or  Line Judge doesn't amble on over to the Referee and converse in secret about a call he was thinking of making.

If I'm the Referee in that game, at that point (and really anytime) I ask, "Where's the Flag?"

No Flag, no call...especially not at that point in the game.  If you don't have the conviction to MAKE the call, there was no call to be made.

[SpeedKills84]

I'm in no way saying he is not deserving of all conference,  I've watched him play for 2 years and he's a fine athlete,  but ALL Conference TWICE in the same year, is there precedent for that?  

Neil Suckow (Coe) - 1st Team Offense (ret.), and 2nd Team Offense (rb) as a freshman
Walner Belleus (UD) - 1st Team Offense (ret.), 1st Team Offense (wr), and 2nd Team Defense (db) as a senior

These are the recent ones that come to mind.  There might be others, but I honestly didn't feel like digging through all the archives.  Both guys had a ton of buzz surrounding them which undoubtedly helped.  To this day, I'm not sure Belleus deserved 3x All-Conference in one season, but it is what it is.    

[CaliRamRL6]

Neil Suckow (Coe) - 1st Team Offense (ret.), and 2nd Team Offense (rb) as a freshman
Walner Belleus (UD) - 1st Team Offense (ret.), 1st Team Offense (wr), and 2nd Team Defense (db) as a senior

These are the recent ones that come to mind.  There might be others, but I honestly didn't feel like digging through all the archives.  Both guys had a ton of buzz surrounding them which undoubtedly helped.  To this day, I'm not sure Belleus deserved 3x All-Conference in one season, but it is what it is.    

I think Breitbach did it for Coe as a return man and a DB when he was a junior. The thing with Belleus can be debated. No matter what anyone thinks about him, as a coach, he was someone that was constantly making plays on tape. You had to account for him in all phases of the game. I'm too lazy to go look at stats but he was a great athlete and good football player.

[CaliRamRL6]

Charlie, I needed a good laugh. I cracked up when I read your post.