FB: American Rivers Conference

[Thunderbolt]

OK, been swamped the last week catching up from football season.
Can someone explain to me what happended on Central's onside kick? It will take too long to go back through and read it.
I know in HS the kicker can be offside to kick it. Ankeny's kicker lines up a yard or 2 past the 40 and takes a banana-type route to the ball.

Watching the Central coach and the referee exchange kicking motions for several minutes, didn't leave much doubt as to who the foul was called on or why. It appeared they were debating where his plant foot was. Not what the rule was. I think like Klomp and Fan Rex and DF1 and others have said, the better team probably escaped with one that was getting away from them.

[Thunderbolt]

Congrats to Central on a successful season and good luck to Coe in the rest of the playoffs.

I was looking at the All Conference list and I saw that both Bladt (Alan with BV and Don with Cornell) brothers made the 1st team defense. Can anyone remember a time that brothers have made 1st team all conference in the same season?

My Congratulations to Coe on their win and to Central for a great season.    

I too had a chance to look at the IIAC All Conference Teams and want to congratulate all the players that were honored.  I'm sure each is very deserving but I did see one anomoly,  Tyler Takes (Coe)  was named 2nd Team at WR and also 2nd Team at Return Specialist.  I'm in no way saying he is not deserving of all conference,  I've watched him play for 2 years and he's a fine athlete,  but ALL Conference TWICE in the same year, is there precedent for that? Just Curious.  Generally these awards spread the wealth a bit and I was surprised to see BV with 7 and Simpson only 1 yet we beat BV and their overall record was 1 win better.  Go Figure.

All that said, I have a very personal connection to a player that I feel was overlooked and will use this forum for his 15 seconds of fame.   He led the IIAC in Kick Off return yards (736), was second in the conference in Kick Off Return Average (Regular season 24.5), FIFTH in the nation in kick off return Yards, led Simpson in All Purpose yards (759)  plus had 42 tackles, 2 interceptions and a forced fumble in 2009 plus 42 tackles and 4 interceptions in 2008 yet didn't garner even an honorable mention. To John Wolfe, congratulations on a very good year and very good career at Simpson.

Let me be the 2nd one to congradulate John Wolfe on a great career. Maybe I'm bragging, but I bet I've watched more IIAC football games in person and on the net than anyone else on this board. I've had the chance to watch two games in person one Saturday, and thanks to the late start for Wartburgs Homecoming, watched most of Luther/Cornell before switching to the knights/Coe and then listened to UD/Simpson one Saturday. I've watched every team in the conference play at least twice, except BV (one time in the mud) I can tell you that there are a lot of good football players in this conference. For me to pick an all conference team based on what I've seen, would be a grave injustice to the kids. The coaches that do the voting see so much more than you or I, that we just shouldn't question it.
I really like the way the IIAC does it as opposed to other conferences. We have a nine team league with 65 players recieving 1st team- 2nd team or Honorable mention. The WIAC is an 8 team conference with 77 players for the same spots. Would you feel better if the IIAC recognized 15 DBs for 8 teams like the WIAC?

[Thunderbolt]

Football season isn't even over yet, and already Wartburg's roster has been removed from its Web site. I find this curious since rosters for other fall sports remain. Regardless, I took the liberty of downloading the roster before it was removed. Any football recruits wondering where they might stack up on the Knight roster can look here:

2    Jourdan Cousin    DB    5-11    181    Jr.    Spencer , Iowa /Spencer
2    Eric Kist    DB    5-8    166    Fr.    Eagle Grove , Iowa /Eagle Grove
3    Matt Gustafson    WR    5-8    153    Jr.    Faribault , Minn. / Faribault
4    Josh VandenHul    DB    5-9    164    So.    N. Sioux City , S.D./Dakota Valley
5    Andrew Creary    DB    6-1    203    Jr.    Knoxville , Iowa / Knoxville
5    Torrence Harris    DB    5-11    165    Fr.    Chicago , Ill. / Lyons Township
6    Matt Wickert    WR    6-1    189    Jr.    Memphis , Mo. / Scotland County
6    Connor Dahlstrom    DB    5-11    165    Fr.    Eldridge, Iowa/North Scott
7    Clint Donovan    WR    5-10    182    Sr.    Solon, Iowa/Solon
8    Josh Mugge    LB    6-0    194    Jr.    Cherokee, Iowa/Washington
8    Ross Wiersma    WR    6-2   200    So.    Sibley, Iowa/Sibley-Ocheyedan
9    Alex Boom    RB    5-11    195    Sr.    Manchester , Iowa / West Delaware
10    Nick Yordi    QB    6-2    180    Sr.    Solon, Iowa/Solon
10    Ethan Charley    DB    5-9    152    Fr.    Reinbeck, Iowa/Gladbrook-Reinbeck
11    Jason Roskam    WR    6-1    185    Jr.    Sioux Center , Iowa / Sioux Center
12    Dustin Broshous    QB    6-5    189    So.    Stockton , Ill. /Stockton
13    Ghaffar Dairo    RB    5-11    193    Fr.    Calumet City , Ill. /Thornwood
14    Trent Rasmussen    QB    5-11    170    Jr.    Clarion, Iowa/Clarion-Goldfield
15    Brandon Moeller    DB    5-9    169    Jr.    Fort Dodge , Iowa / Fort Dodge
15    Will Indianos    QB    5-9    172    Fr.    Gainesville , Fla. /Oak Hill
16    Marcus Williams    K    5-8    165    So.    Council Bluffs , Iowa /Abraham Lincoln
16    Ryan Wurtz    QB    6-6    195    Fr.    Milford , Iowa /Okoboji
17    Mark Lueschow    DB    6-2    205    Fr.    Cresco , Iowa /Crestwood
17    Dan Mysnyk    WR    5-8    137    Fr.    Iowa City , Iowa /City
18    Dan Marshall    QB    6-1    193    Fr.    Manchester , Iowa / West Delaware
18    Mike Polaski    K    5-8    165    Sr.    Cedar Rapids , Iowa / Jefferson
19    Bryan Woods    WR    6-1    182    So.    Oelwein , Iowa /Oelwein
20    Tony Stenberg    DB    5-11    183    Fr.    Atkins , Iowa / Benton Community
20    David Hoehne    DB    5-7    154    Fr.    Elma , Iowa /Crestwood
21    David Brooks    DB    6-2    187    So.    Bettendorf , Iowa / Bettendorf
21    Aaron Zetterlund   DB    6-1   180   Fr.   Keokuk. Iowa/Keokuk
22    Levi Helbling    WR    6-0    173    So.    Malvern , Iowa /East Mills
22    Curt Hruska    WR    5-11    161    Fr.    New Hampton , Iowa /New Hampton
23    Brandon Sims    WR    6-1   178    Fr.    South Holland , Ill. /Walther Lutheran
23    John Burnett    DB    5-10    178    Fr.    Des Moines , Iowa /Dowling
24    Ben Rector    LB    6-0    187    So.    Carlisle , Iowa / Carlisle
24    Julious Calderon   RB   6-0   180   Fr.   Des Moines, Iowa/Lincoln
25    John Mallen    DB    5-8    160    So.    Britt , Iowa /West Hancock
26    Riley Anderson    DB    5-10    162    Fr.    Dubuque , Iowa / Hempstead
27    Tyson Sulzberger    LB    5-9    190    Sr.    Muscatine , Iowa / Muscatine
27    Nathan Moeller    DB    5-11    165    Fr.    Fort Dodge , Iowa / Fort Dodge
28    Antwon Harris    WR    5-7    145    Fr.    Naperville , Ill. / Naperville Central
28    Ilyas Qawishabazz    RB    6-0    220    Fr.    Chicago , Ill. /King College Prep
29    Andy Schmidt    LB    5-10    190    Jr.    Solon, Iowa/Solon
30    Devin White    K/P    6-1    178    Jr.    Decorah , Iowa /Decorah
31    Logan Hansen    LB   6-1   202   So.   Glenville, Minn./Glenville-Emmons
32    Kyle Winfrey    RB    5-11    197    Fr.    Richton Park , Ill. /Rich Central
33    Reese Thompson    RB    6-1   166    Fr.    Van Horne , Iowa / Benton Community
34    Chris Reddick    RB    5-9    170    Fr.    Naperville , Ill. / Wheaton Academy
35    Chad Jensen    LB    5-7    179    Fr.    Iowa City , Iowa /West
36    Scott Hruska    DB   5-10   170   Fr.   New Hampton, Iowa/New Hampton
36    Garrett McGrane    DB    6-2    180    Fr.    Fairbanks , Iowa / Wapsie Valley
37    Spencer Policha    DB    6-0    185    Sr.    Clinton , Iowa /Clinton
38    Deonte Brown    RB    5-10    216    Fr.    LaGrange Park , Ill. / Lyons Township
39    Ryan Staack    DB    5-9    154    Fr.    Shell Rock, Iowa/Waverly-Shell Rock
39    Robby Salmon    P    6-0    202    So.    Mason City , Iowa / Mason City
41    Devin Reese    LB    5-9    182    Fr.    Cedar Rapids , Iowa / Washington
42    Colin Egan    RB    5-10    217    So.    Waukon , Iowa /Waukon
43    Josh Wegmann    TE    6-3    225    Sr.    Epworth , Iowa / Western Dubuque
44    Todd Sampson    TE    6-1   223    Sr.    Nevada , Iowa/Nevada
45    Justin Denner    LB    5-11    186    So.    Waverly, Iowa/Waverly-Shell Rock
45    Whitley Teslow    LB   6-1   176   Fr.   Decorah, Iowa/Decorah
46    Mitch Blythe    FB/TE    6-2    239    Jr.    Central City, Iowa /Central City
47    Blake Suckow    LB    6-3    210    Jr.    West Union , Iowa / North Fayette
48    Chase Reding    LB    6-2    215    So.    Algona , Iowa /Bishop Garrigan
49    Matt Tschetter    LB    6-2    208    So.    Milford , Iowa /Okoboji
50    Jesup Fritsch    LB    5-10    209    So.    Dubuque , Iowa / Hempstead
51    Schylor Altenhofen    DL    5-9    193    Fr.    Wellman, Iowa/Mid-Prairie
51    Brandon Petersen    DL    6-0    207    Sr.    Atlantic , Iowa / Atlantic
52    Jason Shupp    LB    6-1   210    Fr.    Cedar Rapids , Iowa /Kennedy
53    Jim Ruport    DL    6-1    216    Jr.    Urbana, Iowa/Center Point-Urbana
54    Mike Gurius    OL    5-11    265    Sr.    Alleman , Iowa /North Polk
54    Willie Beeler    OL    5-11    214    Fr.    Dolliver, Iowa/Armstrong-Ringsted
55    Aaron Majerus    DL    6-3    202    Fr.    Oelwein , Iowa /Oelwein
56    Cody Iverson    DL    6-2    215    So.    New Hampton/New Hampton
57    Josh Franzen    LB    6-3    196    So.    Elgin , Iowa / North Fayette
58    Braden Kos    LB    5-11    186    Jr.    Wellman, Iowa/Mid-Prairie
58    Justin Perry    LB    6-2    213    Fr.    Indianola , Iowa /Indianola
60    Connor Jones    DL    5-10    206    Sr.    Colfax, Iowa/Prairie City-Monroe
60    Patrick Kolker    DL    5-11    218    Fr.    Clear Lake , Iowa / Clear Lake
61    Jon Orr    OL    6-2    276    So.    Coggon , Iowa / Maquoketa Valley
62    Alex Covington    OL    5-11    239    Fr.    Ankeny , Iowa / Ankeny
63    Bryan Mueller    OL    6-1    269    Jr.    Postville , Iowa /Postville
64    Zach Samson    OL    6-2    269    Jr.    Atkins , Iowa / Benton Community
65    Morgan O'Connor    OL    6-0    253    Jr.    Fort Dodge , Iowa / Fort Dodge
65    Nevin Lansing    LB    6-5    190    Fr.    West Union , Iowa / North Fayette
66    Chad Crawford    DL    5-9    239    Fr.    Galena , Ill. / Galena
67    Tony Brown    OL    6-2    289    Sr.    Manchester , Iowa / West Delaware
68    Spenser Herkelman    OL    6-5    289    Jr.    Maquoketa , Iowa /Maquoketa
68    Jake Keppy    LB    6-2    187    Fr.    Durant , Iowa /Durant
69    Joe Muldoon    OL    6-4    231    Sr.    Des Moines , Iowa / Hoover
70    Ethan Kraft    OL    6-5    242    So.    Lime Springs , Iowa /Crestwood
71    Adam Pedersen    OL    6-5    247    Jr.    Jefferson, Iowa/Jefferson-Scranton
72    Andy Larsen    OL    6-2    215    Fr.    Ankeny , Iowa / Ankeny
73    Lucas Rorah    DL    6-2    213    So.    Delmar , Iowa /Northeast
73    Jordan Young    OL    6-1    304    Fr.    Cedar Rapids , Iowa / Washington
74    Kevin Huss    OL    6-4    263    So.    Ashton , Iowa /Sheldon
75    Colton Hahle    OL    6-4    337    Fr.    Mason City , Iowa / Mason City
75    Ryan Mertens    K    6-0    194    Fr.    Grinnell , Iowa /Grinnell
76    Caleb Dillon    OL    6-0    239    Fr.    Dakota Dunes, S.D./Dakota Valley
77    Mike Havertape    OL    6-2    275    Sr.    Ryan , Iowa / West Delaware
78    Kyle Huss    OL    6-4    250    So.    Ashton , Iowa /Sheldon
79    Travis Vlantes    OL    6-4    265    Sr.    Mason City , Iowa / Mason City
80    P.J. Mott    WR    6-3    237    Jr.    Story City, Iowa/Roland-Story
80    Jacob Schrom    TE    6-4    219    So.    Janesville , Minn. /JWP
81    Josh Kruel    WR    6-1    169    Fr.    Warrenville , Ill. / Wheaton Academy
82    Alex Ross    WR    6-2    205    Sr.    Epworth , Iowa / Western Dubuque
82    Ryan Winder    WR    6-3   165    So.    Mount Vernon , Iowa / Mount Vernon
83    Austin Cole    TE    6-5    215    Jr.    Manchester , Iowa / West Delaware
84    D.J. Looft    WR    6-3    177    Fr.    Armstrong, Iowa/Armstrong-Ringsted
85    Dan Petullo    WR    6-0    184    Fr.    Waterloo , Iowa /West
85    Derek Wood    K    6-1    191    Fr.    Reinbeck, Iowa/Gladbrook-Reinbeck
86    Robert Nichols    WR    6-2    185    Sr.    Ottumwa , Iowa / Ottumwa
87    Seth Smith    TE    6-2    190    Fr.    Davenport , Iowa /West
88    Jon Housholder    WR    6-3    198    So.    West Des Moines , Iowa /Waukee
89    Reed Pedersen    K/P    6-3    207    So.    Jefferson, Iowa/Jefferson-Scranton
90    Derek Snakenberg    DL    6-3    232    Jr.    Sigourney, Iowa/Sigourney-Keota
91    Jared Olson    DL    6-2    211    Jr.    Waterloo , Iowa /West
92    Corey Turner    DL    5-10   246   Fr.   Waterloo, Iowa/East
93    Drew Bowers    DL    5-11    218    Sr.    Waterloo , Iowa /West
93    Brok Dawley    DL    6-3    200    Fr.    Montezuma, Iowa/Montezuma
94    Ross Naylor    DL    6-2    200    Fr.    Ankeny , Iowa / Ankeny
95    Dain Dockter    DL    6-2    234    Sr.    Madison , Wis. /Middleton
95    Tanner Shonka    DL    6-2   215   So.   Tripoli, Iowa/Tripoli
96    Nilan Lansing    DL    6-1    237    Jr.    West Union , Iowa / North Fayette
97    Ben Knutson    DL    6-3    212    Sr.    St. Charles , Iowa/Interstate 35 ( Truro )
98    Jared Tucker    DL    6-1    240    Sr.    Strawberry Point , Iowa /Starmont
99    Jordan Anderson    DL    6-2    225    So.    Williams, Iowa/Northeast Hamilton

Where's last years Freshman flavor of the day?

[AZDutchman]

I am by no means an expert, but I have officiated Football, Basketball, and Baseball for 20+ years; I have been the UIC (Umpire in Chief) for the local Little Leagues...it doesn't attest to my skill or lack thereof, but I do have some experience.  As an official you need to MAKE the call.

In baseball, you signal FAIR/FOUL, SAFE/OUT, or STRIKE so there is no confusion;

In Basketball, you hit the Whistle and raise your hand;

And in Football, YOU THROW THE FLAG, YOUR BEAN BAG, YOUR HAT, OR ANY LOOSE ARTICLE OF CLOTHING so there is NO DOUBT a call has been made.

A Head Linesman or  Line Judge doesn't amble on over to the Referee and converse in secret about a call he was thinking of making.

If I'm the Referee in that game, at that point (and really anytime) I ask, "Where's the Flag?"

No Flag, no call...especially not at that point in the game.  If you don't have the conviction to MAKE the call, there was no call to be made.

Well said.

[AZDutchman]

When I'm the Crew Chief in any game...I tell my guys make the call you see.  If there is an issue we get together and sort it out.

If there is no laundry on the field, then there is no call.  Play on.

I don't think Central could have taken advantage and won...but it's a pity, to me, that a weak-kneed official didn't have the kahookies to drop a flag and then went and reported the infraction (misinformed of the rule apparently and no less!) and that robbed us fans on both sides of 2 or 3 more plays and one of the more exciting finishes to a college football game.  Imagine those last plays...

This was not a bang-bang play.  They had time to think, time to know the rule and still made the wrong call.  In the SEC and the Pac-10 crews get put on timeouts.  These guys' names should be withdrawn from post season work next year.  These aren't volunteers.

Also well said, but
lets say the ref had the 'kahookies' to come on this site or answer the direct question.....
Did you blow the call? and he answered, Yes. Then what?
I myself, expecially in my earlier years, have opened a rule book after the game. I know that we were in a playoff game and the best of the best should be in there, but even they will make a mistake. As you stated, a call needs to be made at the time of the infraction so there is no confusion. When he didn't throw the flag, the confusion started. The focus went to where his foot was at the time of the kick and not that it doesn't matter where his foot was.
I can not remember seeing the meeting of the minds after the play (all the refs getting together), but if they did there had to be confusion even in that pow wow. No one had the 'kahookies' to say, hey wait a minute that's not the rule.
You made a great and valid point, but I don't think there will be any hanging today. A suspension I could agree upon. I almost want to think that a suspension would fall into a catagory as an apology to the Dutch for the mistake.

[AZDutchman]

........I would have really liked to have seen the 2 or 3 more plays though!

[Storm Chaser]

Let me be the 2nd one to congradulate John Wolfe on a great career. Maybe I'm bragging, but I bet I've watched more IIAC football games in person and on the net than anyone else on this board. I've had the chance to watch two games in person one Saturday, and thanks to the late start for Wartburgs Homecoming, watched most of Luther/Cornell before switching to the knights/Coe and then listened to UD/Simpson one Saturday. I've watched every team in the conference play at least twice, except BV (one time in the mud) I can tell you that there are a lot of good football players in this conference. For me to pick an all conference team based on what I've seen, would be a grave injustice to the kids. The coaches that do the voting see so much more than you or I, that we just shouldn't question it.
I really like the way the IIAC does it as opposed to other conferences. We have a nine team league with 65 players recieving 1st team- 2nd team or Honorable mention. The WIAC is an 8 team conference with 77 players for the same spots. Would you feel better if the IIAC recognized 15 DBs for 8 teams like the WIAC?



Not really looking for additional spots, really thought lofty stats on returns both in conference and nationally would have earned Return Specialist spot.   DB spot particularly at safety slots varies pretty wildly depending on the defensive concept employed.  Some defenses use their safeties more as additional linebacker(s) particularly if they have strong corner play.  If a safety can consistently roll up tight and become the 8th / 9th man in the box his tackle count likely will go up dramatically so I find comparing stats at that position particularly tough.  Let's face it, Central and Coe got nearly half of the 54 1st and 2nd team spots and often good players look even better when surrounded by other good players. Strong pass rush equals interceptions in the secondary, great blocking makes for long runs at the halfback slot, etc, etc.

[Klompen]

As one of the few that actually called a Kohawk victory on here, I have a couple of requests. 

1. Fellow Kohawk fans need to stay classy.  I know that there were some Johnie fans being over the top with their comments, but lets stay on task, enjoy the victory and hope for more.

2. Please, please, please stop saying it was "untypical" game for the Johnnies.  First of all, lets just pretend that "untypical" is the correct word.........the Kohawks are in the op 5 in the country in turnover margin, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that they had a big advantage in that department.

3.  FWIW, Coe was missing their starting running back, their two top receivers coming into the season, and their QB for the 4th quarter.  They overcame a lot to hold on to the lead, and I am really proud of them! 

4.  Lastly, SJ did outgain Coe by a considerable amount.  But, by forcing 6 turnovers, Coe's defense gave the offense short fields to work with making big yardage drives few and far between.

+k to you for all of this points, particularly reminding your fans to stay classy.  You won and it is always better to be gracious in victory AND in defeat. 

On point 4 - any Central or non-Central fan from the IIAC 2007 well remembers how many times one of the few stats Central won was the score.  You can run up and down the field at will, but if you don't get it in the endzone, those yards in the middle won't matter.  Coe did it by forcing turnovers and getting a short field.  Keep it up and you keep playing, yards don't matter, the score does.

[Klompen]

OK, been swamped the last week catching up from football season.
Can someone explain to me what happended on Central's onside kick? It will take too long to go back through and read it.
I know in HS the kicker can be offside to kick it. Ankeny's kicker lines up a yard or 2 past the 40 and takes a banana-type route to the ball.

Watching the Central coach and the referee exchange kicking motions for several minutes, didn't leave much doubt as to who the foul was called on or why. It appeared they were debating where his plant foot was. Not what the rule was. I think like Klomp and Fan Rex and DF1 and others have said, the better team probably escaped with one that was getting away from them.

That is the probably the best way of putting it.  I don't know that we would have won, but it is too bad we didn't get to find out.  As to the better team thing, I want to revise that just slightly.  The better team for 2 or 3 quarters won.  Central was the better team in the last quarter and a half.  Including better play calling, as we would have picked up a sure thing first down rather than throwing deep on 3rd and a foot.  Looking at the final stats, and the score being the only one that truly matters, we really played them as close as the final score in the end.  It just took us too long to get going.  I don't want to take anything away from UMHB at all.  Many of us have said the better team won, but they weren't THAT much better in the final analysis.  They jumped out to the lead and just managed to hang on.  

Oh, and for those that didn't see the play and had questions, there was no holder on the onside kick.  People just mentioned that because it was in the rule.  The ref and Mac were very clearly arguing about the kicker's plant foot and it was a blown call.  It would have been a real challenge to score with only 28 or so second left and no time outs, so I'm not arguing that we should be the team playing or that UMHB is not deserving.  Just agreeing that the call was blown.  It is what it is and you can't change it.  But the games clearly showed that the IIAC was worthy of two teams and that is the silver lining that all of us non-Coe fans need to be happy about.  (Non-Coe meaning their fans get to be happy they are still playing.)  Now go Coe and UMHB.  Keep making us look good.

[footballdaddy]

Football season isn't even over yet, and already Wartburg's roster has been removed from its Web site. I find this curious since rosters for other fall sports remain. Regardless, I took the liberty of downloading the roster before it was removed. Any football recruits wondering where they might stack up on the Knight roster can look here:

Where's last years Freshman flavor of the day?

He took the midnight train in the middle of the season, just after Thompson started getting significant yards.

Wartburg takes their roster down because they don't want to miss an athlete because he thinks there are a lot of returning players at his position. Many Wartburg players are not playing at the positions they were playing in high school. Couple that with the normal off season attrition, and the roster isn't very accurate.

For instance: our starting fullback came in on the DL, went to OL, then went to fullback as a sophmore and now is a FB/TE. If he would have thought there were too many returning DL, he wouldn't have given Wartburg the opportunity to recruit him therefore missing out on a lot of playing time at another position.

[Klompen]

Football season isn't even over yet, and already Wartburg's roster has been removed from its Web site. I find this curious since rosters for other fall sports remain. Regardless, I took the liberty of downloading the roster before it was removed. Any football recruits wondering where they might stack up on the Knight roster can look here:

Where's last years Freshman flavor of the day?

He took the midnight train in the middle of the season, just after Thompson started getting significant yards.

Wartburg takes their roster down because they don't want to miss an athlete because he thinks there are a lot of returning players at his position. Many Wartburg players are not playing at the positions they were playing in high school. Couple that with the normal off season attrition, and the roster isn't very accurate.

For instance: our starting fullback came in on the DL, went to OL, then went to fullback as a sophmore and now is a FB/TE. If he would have thought there were too many returning DL, he wouldn't have given Wartburg the opportunity to recruit him therefore missing out on a lot of playing time at another position.

So, you're willing to be deceptive in not letting prospective athletes see that regardless of which position they might be playing, there are too many returning players at that spot?   

[sportsknight]

Football season isn't even over yet, and already Wartburg's roster has been removed from its Web site. I find this curious since rosters for other fall sports remain. Regardless, I took the liberty of downloading the roster before it was removed. Any football recruits wondering where they might stack up on the Knight roster can look here:

[footballdaddy]

If a player thinks he needs to go where there are not a lot of players at his position so he has a chance to play, maybe he isn't as good as he thinks he is. The best players play regardless of age. It doesn't matter if there are 3 or 13 competing for a spot, the best will play and the others won't.

[Klompen]

If a player thinks he needs to go where there are not a lot of players at his position so he has a chance to play, maybe he isn't as good as he thinks he is. The best players play regardless of age. It doesn't matter if there are 3 or 13 competing for a spot, the best will play and the others won't.

So why take down the roster right away?  You just contradicted yourself.

[Klompen]

Football season isn't even over yet, and already Wartburg's roster has been removed from its Web site. I find this curious since rosters for other fall sports remain. Regardless, I took the liberty of downloading the roster before it was removed. Any football recruits wondering where they might stack up on the Knight roster can look here:

We could go back to talking about financial aid offers or bond ratings.