FB: American Rivers Conference

[Storm Chaser]

With respect to Wartburg Roster-gate...would I really want a ballplayer who was scared off by reading a roster in the first place?

PH - 
Maybe Wartburg is just getting smart and wants to dispel the recruiting rumor "be careful with Wartburg, they'll bring 90 freshmen in every year and many never get a fair look"  Hell even D1 players often want to play as freshman and worry about what upper classmen are ahead of them. Besides who'd want to go through 4 years of their life wearing "black and orange"   Even Purple would be better than "Black and Orange" For G--'s Sake   

By the way congrats to JR.

First, thanks...we are very proud out here.  I find myself sympathizing with your take on young Mr. Wolfe.  We felt somewhat slighted last year...but you can see that there is a bias against teams with the losing record.  There are lot of good players in the IIAC

I also think there would have been a chance that the 4 players that got All-IIAC nods might not have gotten as much IF we had lost to Loras and finished 0-8 in the conference again.  Jr. and/or Bladt might have been bumped down to 2nd team, and/or,  King and/or Zasada may not have gotten the HM nods.  I think Cornell picked up a tiny bit of momentum for those guys when we won.

Life ain't fair - move on.  I still scratch my head how BV a team Simpson beat lands 7 on 1st and 2nd team and Simpson gets 1 on second team.  No offense but we also beat Cornell in a very good ball game in which John had a pick in the end zone that helped turn that game. I suspect group dynamics plays a role as well, some of the coaches have been around the conference for awhile and Simpson has a bunch of young fiesty bucks - who knows.

[BoBo]

Of course this opens up an entirely different issue on player hoarding.

Is Wartburg's Roster-gate a player hoarding ploy?  Is UW-W's purported practice of grey-shirting, a thinly veiled player hoarding technique?
Are we ready to open this can o' worms again?   

  Evidence???

[coocooforcoekohawk]

Of course this opens up an entirely different issue on player hoarding.

Is Wartburg's Roster-gate a player hoarding ploy?  Is UW-W's purported practice of grey-shirting, a thinly veiled player hoarding technique?
Are we ready to open this can o' worms again?   

  Evidence???

What is grey shirting?
I am not familiar with ths term.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Of course this opens up an entirely different issue on player hoarding.

Is Wartburg's Roster-gate a player hoarding ploy?  Is UW-W's purported practice of grey-shirting, a thinly veiled player hoarding technique?
Are we ready to open this can o' worms again?   

  Evidence???

What is grey shirting?
I am not familiar with ths term.

A 'redshirt' (no longer allowed, except for medical reasons) could practice with the team but, as long as they never entered a game, preserved a year of eligibility.

A 'greyshirt' can practice with the team pre-season, but not once the season begins.  Thus, by simply not playing (or practicing once the season begins) one year, they also preserve the 'extra' year of eligibility.

IMO this is one of the few clear-cut advantages state schools have over privates - while 5 (or more) years is the norm anyway at many state schools, a player at a private would probably have to have very rich and very indulgent parents to deliberately take an extra year.

[warthog]

Regarding Rostergate, perhaps Walston or one of the other former Knights could confirm what I have understood to be the practice at Wartburg when the season ends. 
I know a former Knight who sat through it four times and indicated it kind of goes like this: The next day or so after the last game of the season, the team gets together for one last time and a few appropriate remarks are made.  At some point during the meeting the seniors are told they can leave the room.  When the door closes behind them the juniors are told this is now their team and they are the leaders.  I was told seniors know that time is coming, but it still hard to take when you walk out as a group that last time.  Removing the roster is all part of the reality that next year starts on Monday after the last game.  I don't see it as anything more than emphasising the fact that you don't live in the past.  In most years it means success for next season doesn't come based on the current season's success.  This year that may mean that the 2010 Knights aren't defined by the disappointing third place IIAC finish in 2009.

[warthog]

Thought for the day:

“If you want to catch more fish, use more hooks.”

George Allen

[BoBo]

Of course this opens up an entirely different issue on player hoarding.

Is Wartburg's Roster-gate a player hoarding ploy?  Is UW-W's purported practice of grey-shirting, a thinly veiled player hoarding technique?
Are we ready to open this can o' worms again?   

Evidence???

What is grey shirting?
I am not familiar with ths term.

A 'redshirt' (no longer allowed, except for medical reasons) could practice with the team but, as long as they never entered a game, preserved a year of eligibility.

A 'greyshirt' can practice with the team pre-season, but not once the season begins.  Thus, by simply not playing (or practicing once the season begins) one year, they also preserve the 'extra' year of eligibility.

IMO this is one of the few clear-cut advantages state schools have over privates - while 5 (or more) years is the norm anyway at many state schools, a player at a private would probably have to have very rich and very indulgent parents to deliberately take an extra year.

Thank you Mr. Ypsi...you got to this before I could post. However, with the amount of aid that seems to be distributed to athletes at private schools, Mount Union calls them Leadership Grants, how many of them are actually paying anywhere close to fully published tuition. I've read testimonials on PP from some former UWW players indicating they paid more to attend UWW as non-residents than they would if they attended some of the privates who were recruiting them because of these grants and aids.  One well known case this year was at UW-Platteville where their starting QB (Nick Anderson) is a freshman in eligibility, but participated in pre-season workouts in 2008 up to the first game.  He didn't make the 100 man roster and just attended school for a year.  This year he went back to the football team and was the starting QB before he was injured. I'm not aware of any current UWW player who is the result of this practice - if I did I would let you know.  If P. Heys wants to sling mud, I hope the wind is not blowing back at him.

[Mr. Ypsi]

BoBo,

I've posted a number of times that the published tuition gap between publics and privates is an illusion, since relatively few private students pay full 'list' price (not all that many public students do either, but the gap between public and private is usually no where near as great as the 'list' prices).  However, as regards the 'greyshirting', my experience is that at most privates (perhaps publics as well, not sure) aid (other than loans) is limited to four years.  Thus (if my impression is correct) that 'greyshirt' year would be full list price.  And at list price, the privates are at a significant disadvantage.

Don't shoot the messenger - I've argued for years against the 'publics oughta be kicked out of d3' crowd that both sides have relative advantages, and price differential is highly exaggerated.  But for this particular situation, I think publics perhaps do have a clear advantage.

[Charlie Kohawk]

Removing the roster is all part of the reality that next year starts on Monday after the last game.  I don't see it as anything more than emphasising the fact that you don't live in the past.  In most years it means success for next season doesn't come based on the current seasons success.  This year that may mean that the 2010 Knights aren't defined by the disappointing third place IIAC finish in 2009.

Yada, yada, yada. What a load of crap. Or, at minimum, poor justification for a deceptive recruiting tactic. Otherwise, why stop with the roster? Why not remove results, stats and everything about the past season? 

[footballdaddy]

One last comment on "rostergate". The roster at any school is not accurate as soon as the last game is over. Beyond the obvious loss of seniors, many players quit at the end of the year and others leave for various reasons as the offseason progresses. Why go through the effort to maintain it? What's the point in leaving it up? I'll second Hey's point about the roster scaring players away.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I've seen many silly controversies over the years, but 'rostergate' has to be near the top!  An IIAC team is still alive; let's focus, folks!

In three pickems, I have taken St. Thomas at even or -2.5; I took Coe at +7.5.  Could people explain which of these picks (if any) are crazy, and why?

(FWIW, I plan to root for Coe, despite 2 of my picks; not sucking-up, just full disclosure.   Unless IWU is involved, I try to separate head from heart when picking; and even then, sometimes. )

[BoBo]

Mr. Ypsi, I fully understand and respect your thoughts on this subject. I've read what you've said in the past and it's consistant with this. I just disagree that public schools are doing this as a standard operating procedure to get a competitive advantage.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Mr. Ypsi, I fully understand and respect your thoughts on this subject. I've read what you've said in the past and it's consistant with this. I just disagree that public schools are doing this as a standard operating procedure to get a competitive advantage.

I have no reason to believe publics are using 'greyshirting' as a deliberate advantage (and don't think I implied such), but IF my impressions are correct, it probably IS that.

My overall view is that publics and privates each have various advantages and that, bottom line, neither has a compelling argument for ridding d3 of the other.

[BoBo]

Mr. Ypsi, I fully understand and respect your thoughts on this subject. I've read what you've said in the past and it's consistant with this. I just disagree that public schools are doing this as a standard operating procedure to get a competitive advantage.

I have no reason to believe publics are using 'greyshirting' as a deliberate advantage (and don't think I implied such), but IF my impressions are correct, it probably IS that.

My overall view is that publics and privates each have various advantages and that, bottom line, neither has a compelling argument for ridding d3 of the other.

I didn't intend to put those words in your mouth.  But, I can live with your last sentence. Time to put this to rest. 

[coco]

I did hear quite a bit of boooos in the back ground after that call??

(side note: I promise, Mom didn't see this game.)

You weren't hearing it right.  It was NOOOOOOOOOOO!  Kind of like SportsKnights reaction to the end of the strip bars in East Dubuque.   

You know in my heart, even down 35-14, I still believed we would come back.  And the way the O was playing at that time, particularly Snead, I don't know that we couldn't have gotten a miracle.  But just as Linfield moaned and groaned over the Miracle in the Mud loss to Central years ago.  If we had taken care of business better earlier, it wouldn't have come down to that.   And you don't read "Mishap in the Mud" you google "Miracle in the mud" and watch it.   Central and Linfield battled to OT in the playoffs at the Catdome.  Linfield scored a FG in their OT attempt with the ball.  Central was stopped and had to go with a FG attempt to tie.  But in the mud, the kick never got off the ground.  Hit, then lineman, Reid Evans in the backside.  He turned around and picked the ball up while Linfield fans and players flooded the field after the apparent win.  Meanwhile, Evans hands the ball off to Central running back, Joe Ritzert who runs through the fans and players flooding the field to score the game winning TD.  Thus the start of the Linfield battle cry "LEAVE NO DOUBT" and Central's mantra, play until the whistle blows.

Klompen,

Some Linfield history...

"Leave No Doubt" was created before the Miracle in the Mud occurred. It originated because Linfield was on the bubble and didn't make it into the playoffs as a Pool B team. The following season the Wildcat players came up with Leave No Doubt as their slogan, to ensure that they would leave no doubt in the committee's mind as to who should be chosen for the playoffs. It worked.

You must have been at that first game. We had hoped to play Central again this year, with a different outcome.