FB: American Rivers Conference

[AZDutchman]

I was trying to piece all the posts together with the rostergating, red shirt, grey shirt and tuition. It seems to be an old news thing. The topic seemed to have originated this time from Wartburg posting their roster with out seniors listed? Am I getting it?

My thoughts...
Yes, I looked at the website/roster before making a decision where to send my son. I looked at an old program, how deep, records, etc...
The main decision came down to two things, the coaching staff and the school.

I believe the coaching staff at Central works on not only making a better player on the field, but a better person off the field. Competition for a position... I really didn't care if my sons position was ten deep. Competition for a position is a great thing. I believe it makes a better player. If a player is not good enough to be in the slot, he shouldn't be in there. 

Central College... I believed that this was (and is) the best fit for my son. It seems that through all the post that I read on this subject, the word education was not mentioned. That is exactly why my son is at Central. He's there to get an education with the opportunity to play football. Student/Athlete.

[AZDutchman]

Regarding Rostergate, perhaps Walston or one of the other former Knights could confirm what I have understood to be the practice at Wartburg when the season ends.  
I know a former Knight who sat through it four times and indicated it kind of goes like this: The next day or so after the last game of the season, the team gets together for one last time and a few appropriate remarks are made.  At some point during the meeting the seniors are told they can leave the room.  When the door closes behind them the juniors are told this is now their team and they are the leaders.  I was told seniors know that time is coming, but it still hard to take when you walk out as a group that last time.  Removing the roster is all part of the reality that next year starts on Monday after the last game.  I don't see it as anything more than emphasising the fact that you don't live in the past.  In most years it means success for next season doesn't come based on the current seasons success.  This year that may mean that the 2010 Knights aren't defined by the disappointing third place IIAC finish in 2009.

This I find to be very interesting. My son who is a senior, the team/coach did the exact opposite. They had the seniors stay in the last meeting and asked everyone else to excuse themselves. I'm not sure which of the two is better. The way you put it sounds like a good approach.

[badgerwarhawk]

  However, as regards the 'greyshirting', my experience is that at most privates (perhaps publics as well, not sure) aid (other than loans) is limited to four years.  Thus (if my impression is correct) that 'greyshirt' year would be full list price.  And at list price, the privates are at a significant disadvantage.

When my daughter was recruited by Elmhurst to play volleyball they guaranteed her money for five years and they told her that was their standard practice.   Obviously that's just one school but that was my personal experience.

[sc_stormchaser]

With respect to Wartburg Roster-gate...would I really want a ballplayer who was scared off by reading a roster in the first place?

PH - 
Maybe Wartburg is just getting smart and wants to dispel the recruiting rumor "be careful with Wartburg, they'll bring 90 freshmen in every year and many never get a fair look"  Hell even D1 players often want to play as freshman and worry about what upper classmen are ahead of them. Besides who'd want to go through 4 years of their life wearing "black and orange"   Even Purple would be better than "Black and Orange" For G--'s Sake   

By the way congrats to JR.

First, thanks...we are very proud out here.  I find myself sympathizing with your take on young Mr. Wolfe.  We felt somewhat slighted last year...but you can see that there is a bias against teams with the losing record.  There are lot of good players in the IIAC

I also think there would have been a chance that the 4 players that got All-IIAC nods might not have gotten as much IF we had lost to Loras and finished 0-8 in the conference again.  Jr. and/or Bladt might have been bumped down to 2nd team, and/or,  King and/or Zasada may not have gotten the HM nods.  I think Cornell picked up a tiny bit of momentum for those guys when we won.

Life ain't fair - move on.  I still scratch my head how BV a team Simpson beat lands 7 on 1st and 2nd team and Simpson gets 1 on second team.  No offense but we also beat Cornell in a very good ball game in which John had a pick in the end zone that helped turn that game. I suspect group dynamics plays a role as well, some of the coaches have been around the conference for awhile and Simpson has a bunch of young fiesty bucks - who knows.

I certainly don't want to start any "Storm on Storm" crime, but you say that life isn't fair so move on, then you go right into it not being fair.  Trust me, he may feel slighted right now, but after he graduates no one will care whether he was or wasn't a DIII all-conference athlete. 

If I was a current SC player, I would be more concerned about a 3-7 record and giving up over 40 points/game in the seven losses.  If it wasn't for a last second field goal against BV and a missed extra point by Cornell, they could've been staring at a 1-9 season.

[Klompen]

Klompen,

Some Linfield history...

"Leave No Doubt" was created before the Miracle in the Mud occurred. It originated because Linfield was on the bubble and didn't make it into the playoffs as a Pool B team. The following season the Wildcat players came up with Leave No Doubt as their slogan, to ensure that they would leave no doubt in the committee's mind as to who should be chosen for the playoffs. It worked.

You must have been at that first game. We had hoped to play Central again this year, with a different outcome.

Ah, my bad, sorry about that, guess I didn't notice it until after we played Linfield as I didn't know anything about them before that.  It seemed like a fitting response to the way the game ended. 

Central hoped for a rematch this year too!  We also wanted a different outcome, that being a solid win instead of a questioned one!     Good luck against UMHB, though I have to hope they win and thereby raise Central's stock in the playoff process.  It should be a great game, too bad it isn't being streamed, would have enjoyed watching it.

[Klompen]

Rumor I heard at the BB game last night was that after the game and a review of the rule, the official admitted he blew the call on the onside kick and apologized for the error.  Don't know if there is truth in it or not, but so runs the rumor mill.

[Purple Heys]

Of course this opens up an entirely different issue on player hoarding.

Is Wartburg's Roster-gate a player hoarding ploy?  Is UW-W's purported practice of grey-shirting, a thinly veiled player hoarding technique?
Are we ready to open this can o' worms again?   

  Evidence???

There is a well worn discussion on this.  My question was rhetorical.  Obviously there is a raw nerve on this.  The WIAC 100 player limit would be the offset to potential player hoarding.  My observation is that the loopholes are there for public and private institutions should they choose to take advantage.  It seems some do and others don't or don't do it very effectively.  To deny this happens within the general populace of D3 institutions is naive.  The game is, for those that choose to engage, you are not guilty unless you are caught.

When my daughter was recruited by Elmhurst to play volleyball they guaranteed her money for five years and they told her that was their standard practice.   Obviously that's just one school but that was my personal experience.

And in this case, it would appear that Elmhurst is in direct violation in that there was quid pro quo for her enrolling at the school to play a sport....translates as aid for athletics.

I am curious, what was your familiy's response to this?  Did she enroll at Elmhurst and did they follow through on their promise?  Did you report this NCAA violation? 

[Fannosaurus Rex]

Doesn't Coe have a game or something this week?

[Toby Taff]

too bad it isn't being streamed, would have enjoyed watching it.

It is being streamed, FREE!  see the  NWC board

[NewKnightDad]

How good is Coe's back up quarterback?

[badgerwarhawk]

I was told that they do it with all of their students so I doubt it's a violation.  I didn't mean to imply they only did it with athletes.  Though I have to admit that it doesn't surprise me that you've jumped to that conclusion.  She did enroll at Elmhurst though she later transfered to the University of Wisconsin so it became a mute issue.

I personally know of another situation where a private school was offering less money to an athlete than tutition at a public school would have cost so they increased their offer by adding a music scholarship despite the fact the athlete had never taken a music course, wasn't a music major and did not take any music classes at the institution.  No, I didn't report it.  No one died and made me the NCAA police.  

[Storm Chaser]

With respect to Wartburg Roster-gate...would I really want a ballplayer who was scared off by reading a roster in the first place?

I certainly don't want to start any "Storm on Storm" crime, but you say that life isn't fair so move on, then you go right into it not being fair.  Trust me, he may feel slighted right now, but after he graduates no one will care whether he was or wasn't a DIII all-conference athlete. 

If I was a current SC player, I would be more concerned about a 3-7 record and giving up over 40 points/game in the seven losses.  If it wasn't for a last second field goal against BV and a missed extra point by Cornell, they could've been staring at a 1-9 season.

Um - Maybe it is different at other IIAC schools, my brother was an All American, All Conference and Hall of Famer at Buena Vista 40 years ago and they still very much remember.  Your comment seems to diminish the D3 athlete, if he was all conference at D2 I guess someone would care and certainly D1 athletes are God like - what's with that.

Yes the season was a disappointment on many levels but not sure of your fan status as you choose to air the dirty laundry.  As you point out a couple of bounces the other direction it could have been worse,  a couple key injuries less it may have been much better as well.

[D O.C.]

"Leave No Doubt" was created before the Miracle  Mishap in the Mud occurred.

[footballdaddy]

Doesn't Coe have a game or something this week?

Well I guess no one from UST wants to discuss it here. No matter, Coe will win anyway.

[D O.C.]

Well, that's too bad.  I was hoping to see some of what you folks are discussing here on the NCAA site

http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/champpage/m-footbl-div3-index.html

but they mixed up video from Central - UMHB game and it's Faith Baptist   

I went to the site and where they have that cute hand-drawn bracket below the stadium picture clicked on video highlights.  I'll keep searching.