FB: American Rivers Conference

[doolittledog]

AZD ... this probably is not what you are looking for, but your question brought to mind an experience I had with UD back the year I graduated.  I was working for the Admissions Department that Spring and Summer and got sent on what turned out to be a very awkward "admissions visit" to a high school senior and bball player in Wisconsin.  Turns out he was a highly sought-after recruit and ended up as a starter (but not his freshman year) for the Badgers.  I found out later that I was sent to visit him to keep a big UD donor happy ... not because we had a chance in hell at ever seeing him on campus ... and it was a very uncomfortable feeling talking to him and his parents in  their living room.

You were graduating from a christian school and about to enter the seminary.  Did your recruiting pitch go like this???

We're on a mission from God!!!

[AZDutchman]

My opinion on recruiters..... car salesmen. If any of you sells cars, please don't take offense. If any of you are recruiters, please listen. The following may be choppy or sporadic, but I'm sure you'll be able to put the pieces together.
I have four sons, three in which play football. Two of them play in college and one plays in high school. The reason I posted for your opinions is that the "game" has started with my son in high school.
One of the things I try to keep in mind is that college recruiters have a lot of ground to cover, many players to consider and run against the competition of other programs.

I'm going to cut to the quick as far as what put me over the edge in the recruiting department.
My son at Central was being considered to play ball at the school that my other son goes to. There was a write up in the school paper and an interest shown to him attending. So, I went through all the procedures. application, tape, etc. The end result...not even a call to their decision.
Central's recruiter was on campus at my other sons' high school. The recruiter was there with interest for certain individual. My son gave notice to him and introduced himself. I asked my son if the recruiter showed any interest in him attending Central. He explained to me no and that there really wasn't much of conversation.
My son in high school...GPA 4.67, top percentile in his class, 6'3"(still growing), 275lbs, starter. With not even a business card from the recruiter to bring home?

I've coached for many years and I would have to think this would be someone that you would want to take a look at. What I have always tried to do as a father is not put on the "rose colored glasses". I'm not the father that thinks the NFL. I stay focused on three things...what's going to help my son become a better person, his education and then the football program.
Also, don't look at this as a way of airing dirty laundry. I have all great things to say about Central. Central did not recruit my son. They visited his school and my son brought home a Central football program. I did my homework and then called them. Everyone from the first phone call, no matter what department, was sincere in their kindness to helping me make the decision for my son.
I want this experience to be a good one for this son on his way into college, just as it was good for his brothers. I asked for your opinions to smooth out my own thoughts before the recruiting process continues.

As far as the in-state out-of-state side. 99% of the colleges looking at my sons in the past were from out of state. ASU and Northern Arizona showed interest, but showed to be a confusing experience. One hand didn't know what the other was doing? My sons, just as other young men, like the idea of getting out of dodge (going to school out of state). One out of state college (which I'll leave nameless) forgot my sons name after he called. The college that made the first contact for my son in high school is from out of state.
It just so happens to be another cold state. Is it cruel that I send my sons to the cold states while I stay here in 75degree weather? Nope!
More to continue....

[Klompen]

All is not fair in love and wrestling!  Jon McGovern, a Central grad, coaching at UD?  Blasphemy!  I thought having Jen Walker at WB doing volleyball was bad enough!  At least your schools know where to find great coaches.   

Did you forget former All IIAC Tennis coach Bryan Mours is now leading the UD Tennis programs 

  What is this world coming to? 

[Klompen]

"My son gave notice to him and introduced himself. I asked my son if the recruiter showed any interest in him attending Central. He explained to me no and that there really wasn't much of conversation.
My son in high school...GPA 4.67, top percentile in his class, 6'3"(still growing), 275lbs, starter. With not even a business card from the recruiter to bring home? "

Sounds like a big oops on Central's part.  Glad you followed up and investigated us.  At least you are evidence that Central didn't promise anything they couldn't deliver, like guaranteed varsity playing time.

[DBQ1965]

AZD ... this probably is not what you are looking for, but your question brought to mind an experience I had with UD back the year I graduated.  I was working for the Admissions Department that Spring and Summer and got sent on what turned out to be a very awkward "admissions visit" to a high school senior and bball player in Wisconsin.  Turns out he was a highly sought-after recruit and ended up as a starter (but not his freshman year) for the Badgers.  I found out later that I was sent to visit him to keep a big UD donor happy ... not because we had a chance in hell at ever seeing him on campus ... and it was a very uncomfortable feeling talking to him and his parents in  their living room.

You were graduating from a christian school and about to enter the seminary.  Did your recruiting pitch go like this???

We're on a mission from God!!!

What else could I say?

[AZDutchman]

"My son gave notice to him and introduced himself. I asked my son if the recruiter showed any interest in him attending Central. He explained to me no and that there really wasn't much of conversation.
My son in high school...GPA 4.67, top percentile in his class, 6'3"(still growing), 275lbs, starter. With not even a business card from the recruiter to bring home? "

Sounds like a big oops on Central's part.  Glad you followed up and investigated us.  At least you are evidence that Central didn't promise anything they couldn't deliver, like guaranteed varsity playing time.

The coaches at Central are top notch in my book. I spoke to the coaches many times before making the decision to send my son to Central. One of the things that was not discussed was playing time. The topic of having competition for a spot was discussed. That came up when we were discussing a recruit and the recruit felt the position he was going for was too deep. I myself wouldn't have cared if my sons' position was twenty deep. Two things I think of when a position has many players. One, it will make my son a better player. Two, if he's not good enough to be in that position he shouldn't be in there.

My son is developing into a better person because of Centrals football program. It's not because of the wins on the field. That's an added extra.

[AZDutchman]

To any recruiters out there. If I dont' hear the two magic questions in our first conversation your not going to get anywhere with me and others I hope.

1.) What is your sons' GPA?
2.) What is your sons' SAT score?

[AZDutchman]

AZD ... this probably is not what you are looking for, but your question brought to mind an experience I had with UD back the year I graduated.  I was working for the Admissions Department that Spring and Summer and got sent on what turned out to be a very awkward "admissions visit" to a high school senior and bball player in Wisconsin.  Turns out he was a highly sought-after recruit and ended up as a starter (but not his freshman year) for the Badgers.  I found out later that I was sent to visit him to keep a big UD donor happy ... not because we had a chance in hell at ever seeing him on campus ... and it was a very uncomfortable feeling talking to him and his parents in  their living room.

You were graduating from a christian school and about to enter the seminary.  Did your recruiting pitch go like this???

We're on a mission from God!!!

What else could I say?

"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses. Hit it!"

[Willie University]

To any recruiters out there. If I dont' hear the two magic questions in our first conversation your not going to get anywhere with me and others I hope.

1.) What is your sons' GPA?
2.) What is your sons' SAT score?

I think you are lumping "recruiters" into one category when it should actually be two:
1.) Admissions
2.) Coaches

Both recruit and both may have knowledge in each others "area of expertise". But, for most, not all coaches, the first thing they want to know is "football related information", and if they feel the kid has a chance of playing at the next level, then GPA, ACT/SAT scores are the next questions. Why even bother is they aren't going to recruit him anyway?

For Admissions reps, they will ask about GPA/ACT/SAT, etc first most of the time, then, if they are good and knowledgeable, they will also discuss the highlights of the football program to generate more interest. To what degree depends on the knowledge of athletics but there are many admission reps that played sports in college also.

But, the fact is, at the private college level, admissions reps recruit just as hard as coaches do. And eventually, they will join together to recruit the same kids. Or at least they should join together. Other then Wartburg, the financial aid should be left to the admissions people and not coaches   

Just like position depth, the types of offensive and defensive schemes that are run, etc... should also be left to the coaches.

But, both sell the school and athletic program and both are recruiters. But, you can't lump them together.

Willie U

[doolittledog]

Another question to ask is...How involved are the parents and kids in the recruiting at the D3 level?  A lot of kids at the D3 level are diamonds in the rough.  Kids with talent that have been over looked for various reasons.  Most D3 schools won't have huge recruiting budgets.  How much of it is parents and kids making themselves known to the different D3 schools out there, vs. coaching staffs having relationships with high school coaching staffs and identifying talent that way...as well as admissions and coaching staffs working together to find kids and bring them in?  

And another question might be...If child A has an 18 ACT and a 2.2 high school GPA but has a dad with Joe Chlapaty type money, does he get in to school ahead of child B that has an 18 ACT and a 2.2 GPA but comes from a poor family and would require a boat load of finantial aid to make it work?  

Also, do schools have set admissions standards?  Is there a certain GPA or ACT score a kid must have?  Or does it really come down to a case by case basis for each child?  

[AZDutchman]

Willie,
I think you may be putting a little twist on what I'm expressing on the GPA. Many coaches I have spoken to start out with, "I'm interested in your son playing football here." And go right into, "What are your sons' scores?"
I take that as the school has a set of standards to their academics and there not just willing to just take anyone to fill a spot.
I don't think admissions should be lumped in with recruiters. I think maybe that I'm expressing a little to harsh on my thoughts and feelings towards recruiters. I have had more good experiences than bad. What I do know is that after showing their interest that they're going to put your sons name up on a board with a hundred or so others.
I want this to be a good experience for my son. That is what it's all about. I just make the initial contact and then turn it over to my son. If I feel that I have more questions during or after that, I'm going to ask. I also keep in mind that they are recruiting my son, not me.

[AZDutchman]

Another question to ask is...How involved are the parents and kids in the recruiting at the D3 level?  A lot of kids at the D3 level are diamonds in the rough.  Kids with talent that have been over looked for various reasons.  Most D3 schools won't have huge recruiting budgets.  How much of it is parents and kids making themselves known to the different D3 schools out there, vs. coaching staffs having relationships with high school coaching staffs and identifying talent that way...as well as admissions and coaching staffs working together to find kids and bring them in?  

And another question might be...If child A has an 18 ACT and a 2.2 high school GPA but has a dad with Joe Chlapaty type money, does he get in to school ahead of child B that has an 18 ACT and a 2.2 GPA but comes from a poor family and would require a boat load of finantial aid to make it work?  

Also, do schools have set admissions standards?  Is there a certain GPA or ACT score a kid must have?  Or does it really come down to a case by case basis for each child?  

These are all great questions???

At my sons high school the head coach really doesn't do much of anything to 'promote' a player/young man to the next level. Actually he doesn't even carry a cell phone, because he doesn't want to be dragged down with calls. He also has a very high standard of what a player should be for the next level. He is a former player that exceeded in a lot of categories and if he doesn't see it in others he won't recommend them. All contacts are done by the parents. Recruiters do come on campus, but have to make it by the coach first.

Money money money. Yes it does talk. My sons school is filled with (how would you say?) a boat load of it. I am not one of them. I am the opposite. That is one of the things that I am very straight forward with a recruiter. If you're looking for money from me, this meeting might as well be over. Fortunately the government and financial aid has helped in this category.
Have my kids been over looked because of this? No. Has someone been chosen over my sons particularly? No. But I have seen it.

[warthog]

It seems to work well for Wartburg to employ the wives of assistant football coaches in the admissions department as recruiters.  I don't know who finds the student/athletes first; the wives or the husbands.

[Willie University]

Willie,
I think you may be putting a little twist on what I'm expressing on the GPA. Many coaches I have spoken to start out with, "I'm interested in your son playing football here." And go right into, "What are your sons' scores?"
I take that as the school has a set of standards to their academics and there not just willing to just take anyone to fill a spot.
I don't think admissions should be lumped in with recruiters. I think maybe that I'm expressing a little to harsh on my thoughts and feelings towards recruiters. I have had more good experiences than bad. What I do know is that after showing their interest that they're going to put your sons name up on a board with a hundred or so others.
I want this to be a good experience for my son. That is what it's all about. I just make the initial contact and then turn it over to my son. If I feel that I have more questions during or after that, I'm going to ask. I also keep in mind that they are recruiting my son, not me.

All I was trying to do is explain that you cannot just say "recruiters" because there are many people that "recruit" for private colleges. Coaches recruit. Admissions Reps recruit. Even Professors or Fine Arts Directors "recruit".

If you are discussing "recruiters" as COACHES, then I understand where you are coming from. Of course, most parents, especially if they are more concerned with their childrens "long term" goals of an education, want to know that the coaches care and put a priority on "academics" and not just athletic ability. Most "smart" recruiters (coaches) will emphasize academics during the initial recruiting phase. At the D3 level, in most cases, it truley is about the STUDENT-athlete versus the higher levels caring most about the student-ATHLETE.

But, I will agree, there certainly are a slew of recruiters (coaches) that probably didn't place an emphasis on academics themselves while in college and thus, don't put an emphasis on academics for their potential "recruits". Of course, I, like you, would probably be turned off by that approach and question my son playing for people like that.

Thankfully, from what I have seen, Coach Z puts a strong emphasis on developing the STUDENT-athlete and wants to graduate individuals that will be positive influences in every aspect of their future lives--careers, relationships, communities. And I believe Coach McMartin also does that. I want to beat him but I do respect him. I have always had a respect for Coach Schipper and believe that Coach Martin is living up to Coach Schipper's legacy.

But, again, I would NEVER wear red and white as long as I live even if my son decided to play there.

Blue and white only for this Spartan, You can respect without turning your coat...
Willie U

[DBQ1965]

Willie U ...

For someone who loves Spartan Blue and White ... I must confess that I wore the  red-and-white of the Lodi Flames in high school.  However, that is the only red-and-white to which I feel any loyalty!

Go Spartans!