FB: American Rivers Conference

[Pat Coleman]

Pat is there a link for the SOS rankings?  or what ever they are called now?

We're waiting on one final tweak to be made by PrestoSports but we will have that this week.

[AZDutchman]

I hope in this next post that you don't think I'm crazy , psychotic or out of my mind .

I love football. I love the hard hitting in football. I believe in extreme aggressiveness in football. When I played, I played hard and what some would think to be dirty. I like to think of it as 'street ball'. I was thrown out of two games for fighting and that was baseball. I yell at the TV when I watch football.

I tell my boys to play hard, and then play harder and then hit them till it hurts. I just called my son last week to tell him to turn it up a notch. I want to see him hit harder.

I am repetitive on what I tell my boys....This is football, not badminton; Hit them till they don't want to come back on the field; continue hitting them until the whistle blows; I want to see the other guy crying to his mommy from the side lines....I probably drive my sons crazy when I continuously tell them the same thing over and over and over again.

Why bring this up? There are going to be a lot of players hitting the field this week end and football will continue. Is there going to be any team thinking to themselves, we better turn it down a little this week? I do believe there are going to be some players this week end giving some second thoughts on how to play and those players will get hurt.

Don't get me wrong everyone and please don't think that this is bad timing. Football will continue and it already has.

YES, I DO THINK YOU ARE INDEED PSYCHOTIC OR AT BEST A SOCIOPATH.  VIOLENCE AND HEAD TO HEAD AND SPEARING FOOTBALL IS NOT A GAME.  I TRUELY HOPE YOUR CHILDREN DO NOT EXPERIENCE WHAT HAS RECENTLY HAPPENED ON ALL LEVELS OF FOOTBALL IN TERMS OF INJURIES.....IN SPITE OF YOUR OBSESSION.  HOPEFULLY THEIR MOTHER HAS SOME COMMON SENSE.

I have not missed a doctor's appointment in five years and my medications seem to be at the correct level now. I thought maybe when I was writing my post that I had one of my episodes and wrote something I didn't mean to, but no where do I see that I condoned head to head and spearing football (or even mentioned it).
I truly believe that when a player steps outside the rules in a dangerous manner, such as helmet to helmet, they should be ejected from the game immediately. As far as violence, it's football. Football is a violent sport, just like boxing.
You missed the point. Maybe I should have been clearer on what I was trying to say or express. Their Mother, I met her at the doctor's office. She was already going for three years before me. Her medications are all out of whack.

[doolittledog]

I listened to an interview with Kurt Warner yesterday and they asked him about what can be done about head injuries and injuries in general in football.  His answer was you just have to play the game.  He added there is only so much you can do as far as changing rules.  Maybe just better enforcing head to head contact and coaches doing a better job about teaching kids about not leading with your head.  But at the end of the day, football is a violent game.  He added that as a 20 year old you think you can play forever.  As you get older, and have 7 kids, you realize that you can't and you play the game a bit different. 

You can teach kids to tackle by wrapping up their opponant.  You can put money into helmut design to try to find a safer helmut.  The problem is, football is a contact sport.  Another problem is kids are bigger and faster than they were even 20 years ago.  You now often see QB's that are 6'5 and 250lbs.  Lot's of linemen weren't that big 20-30 years ago.  Accidents will happen, more kids will suffer injuries like what happened to Luthers Chris Norton.  It is a horrible reality.  Additionally, most men who played the game for any length of time go on to adult lives with many aches and pains. 

I don't know the answer to all these questions we have, but, as AZDutchman said, the game will go on.  As Kurt Warner said, it's a violent game, we really can't change the game too much.  We just have to hope and pray we never see another injury on the field like Mr. Norton last saturday.  Something that is often in the back of our minds as most friday and saturdays on this board we see a slew of posts wishing everybody a safe and injury free day.

 

[Phred]

AZD,
You are right....you didn't mention head to head, etc.  I APOLOGIZE.

What triggered me was "dirty" and "hit them hard" and so I jumped to a conclusion.

Sorry.

[NewKnightDad]

AZDUTCH

You are spot on, when you let up the chances of getting injured are greater.  Football is a violent sport and that is what probably makes it so popular.  Linemen lead with their head all of the time when they get off the ball and they are just now finding out that those repeated hits to the head lead to health problems later in life.  These head shots don't get the attention of the big hits you see on TV over and over and over again but the collective damage is still something to be concerned about.

[Klompen]

AZD,
You are right....you didn't mention head to head, etc.  I APOLOGIZE.

What triggered me was "dirty" and "hit them hard" and so I jumped to a conclusion.

Sorry.

Don't worry Phred.  I have been watching Central football since the late 60's, which now that you know I am a woman you know I have to say I wasn't even 10 years old at the time  , anyway Coach Mac will take care of any thoughts of playing dirty.  I think most will agree that Central plays the game clean and without cheap shots.  But he will back 150% the idea of hit them hard.  Every coach would.  

Central's Brian O'Donnell severed his spinal cord in a homecoming game against Penn back then.  It was tragic and everyone gave him all the prayers and support they could.   We already see the same happening for Chris.  We love our sport and our own team.  But when something bad happens, we are all on God's team.  

[abnrgr]

Sorry to butt in on this board. Hope Chris Norton is pulling thru. I went to his site and he seems to in better shape than some of the other spinal injuries this past week.

Lively board too...

[AZDutchman]

AZD,
You are right....you didn't mention head to head, etc.  I APOLOGIZE.

What triggered me was "dirty" and "hit them hard" and so I jumped to a conclusion.

Sorry.

Don't worry Phred.  I have been watching Central football since the late 60's, which now that you know I am a woman you know I have to say I wasn't even 10 years old at the time  , anyway Coach Mac will take care of any thoughts of playing dirty.  I think most will agree that Central plays the game clean and without cheap shots.  But he will back 150% the idea of hit them hard.  Every coach would.  

Central's Brian O'Donnell severed his spinal cord in a homecoming game against Penn back then.  It was tragic and everyone gave him all the prayers and support they could.   We already see the same happening for Chris.  We love our sport and our own team.  But when something bad happens, we are all on God's team.  

It seems to be that a good handful picked up on what I was trying to express. Some seem to be picking up on....'what some would think to be dirty'. If any of you are under the illusion that the game is played by the book, I would advise you to watch a game away from the ball. I would even go as far to say, pay close attention to a fumble recovery. I have never seen the players standing around thinking, He got the ball let's not try to pry it out of his hands before the ref sees. And I can go on and on and on.
The last thing I want to get into is...'back in the day'. Those days are loooong gone for me, but let me tell you I had my a$$ handed to me plenty of times. Just like my sons have been beat up on the field. Now how did my sons get beat up on the field when everyone is playing by the book?
It's a battle folks. Football is a violent sport. When a player decides to step on that field they better be ready to fight to the finish. I hope that I put some clarification to the word dirty. There wasn't any eye gouging or biting of the legs. Maybe I should have put overly aggressive.

Side note: the two fights. I was a catcher. A player decided to purposely jam his spikes into the back of my leg. The other, who I wasn't becoming good friends with through out the game, decided to swing his bat at my shin guard and nailed the side of my knee. I didn't start the fights, only finished them.  A looong looong time ago.

[DutchFan2004]

AZDUTCH

You are spot on, when you let up the chances of getting injured are greater.  Football is a violent sport and that is what probably makes it so popular.  Linemen lead with their head all of the time when they get off the ball and they are just now finding out that those repeated hits to the head lead to health problems later in life.  These head shots don't get the attention of the big hits you see on TV over and over and over again but the collective damage is still something to be concerned about.

Lineman are not the only players to lead with their head.  The one player I have not seen mentioned yet is the runningback.  How many times do you see a runningback bury his head to get low and gain as many yards as they can?  They have been taught this since the beginning of the game.  Then the defense has been taught to go low and tackle the legs and wrap up.  Head to head contact has been happening since the creation of the game.  Are you now going to throw a flag every time the a runningback lowers his head and leads with it?  I dare say if you do that you almost guarantee no running game any more.  

[AZDutchman]

AZDUTCH

You are spot on, when you let up the chances of getting injured are greater.  Football is a violent sport and that is what probably makes it so popular.  Linemen lead with their head all of the time when they get off the ball and they are just now finding out that those repeated hits to the head lead to health problems later in life.  These head shots don't get the attention of the big hits you see on TV over and over and over again but the collective damage is still something to be concerned about.

Lineman are not the only players to lead with their head.  The one player I have not seen mentioned yet is the runningback.  How many times do you see a runningback bury his head to get low and gain as many yards as they can?  They have been taught this since the beginning of the game.  Then the defense has been taught to go low and tackle the legs and wrap up.  Head to head contact has been happening since the creation of the game.  Are you now going to throw a flag every time the a runningback lowers his head and leads with it?  I dare say if you do that you almost guarantee no running game any more.  

DutchFan2004,
You just beat me to the punch. I was thinking the same exact thing. All runningbacks put their heads down. Another thing to think about is what about the accidental helmets to helmets. How would the refs distinguish that? 

[footballdaddy]

You cannot overlegislate football. It is dangerous by nature. That is why there is so much cameraderie on a football team. Everyone that steps on the field has to acknowledge that any play could be their last. You can never make the game 100% safe. You can say that there is nothing outside of war that gaives the same experience. That is why we like to watch it and that is why they like to play it.

There are risks in life. If you try to avoid them all you would never drive, fly, or walk across the street. When it's your time, it doesn't matter if you're playing football or walking down the street, it's your time.

[NewKnightDad]

I am not asking for anything to change just pointing out something I am sure you all knew already.  The head is a weapon and a tool on the field in more ways than just tackling.

This is a great conversation we are having.

[AZDutchman]

The other side of the ball....Let me tell you, I had to do some serious sole searching, praying and a very large review after this happened with Chris Norton. I consoled with friends and family as to what would be the best thing to do with my own sons.

I received a call in the past from my son's coach that he was being rushed to the hospital. He was in New York, us in Phoenix. To let you know on how much of an emotional turn around news like that can be, we received the news when we were heading into the stadium for my other sons high school championship game. Your heart seems like it stops beating, the confusion of thoughts that fly through your head, trying to stay focused on what is the proper thing to do now?, the concern, the helplessness, etc. After a five day stay in the hospital, he was fine.

It goes beyond that. We have seen are son down on the field not getting up. There have been broken bones, slight concussions, pain noises from their beds, etc. on that too. My sons during one of our Thanksgiving dinners were comparing bruises like in the movie Jaws when they were comparing scares. Then to I quietly thought to myself, is this the best sport for my sons?

My wife's and I always come up with the same decision when it comes to football, yes.  We think it is best for them to play. We always think to ourselves that they will look back at the day of playing football and will have great thoughts to cherish.


I know all of you have been praying for Chris and his family. You may want to add a couple more prayers towards his parents. I think they could use a couple more.

[Fannosaurus Rex]

AZDUTCH

You are spot on, when you let up the chances of getting injured are greater.  Football is a violent sport and that is what probably makes it so popular.  Linemen lead with their head all of the time when they get off the ball and they are just now finding out that those repeated hits to the head lead to health problems later in life.  These head shots don't get the attention of the big hits you see on TV over and over and over again but the collective damage is still something to be concerned about.

Lineman are not the only players to lead with their head.  The one player I have not seen mentioned yet is the runningback.  How many times do you see a runningback bury his head to get low and gain as many yards as they can?  They have been taught this since the beginning of the game.  Then the defense has been taught to go low and tackle the legs and wrap up.  Head to head contact has been happening since the creation of the game.  Are you now going to throw a flag every time the a runningback lowers his head and leads with it?  I dare say if you do that you almost guarantee no running game any more.  

Yes.  Throw the flag everytime a running back lowers his head and everytime a defender lowers his.  Are you saying players can't learn?  They have learned not to block in the back, not to run into kickers, not to grab facemasks, etc.  I think it would be a good thing to teach them not to use the tops of their heads.

[doolittledog]

I see no virtue in justifying its violence just for the shock value as entertainment for spectators nor "it will build character" for the players.

I don't think any one is advocating violence just for the shock value.  The fact remains, football is a contact sport.  Nobody wants to see someone get injured.  But part of the game is wearing out the other team.  Over the last 2-3 seasons I have watched 4-5 Hawkeye games that by the 4th quarter you could see the opposing offense didn't even want to come back on the field and you could see them just going through the motions and doing nothing more than getting a 3 and out so they could get back off the field.  That is what is meant when you hear people talk about physically beating up another team.  You don't want to injure the other team, but at the same time you want to physically dominate them.  It's part of the sport.

We can teach better tackling techniques.  We can develop better equipment to protect players.  The sad truth is there will be times where a great kid will go down to a terrible injury.  It will just happen. 

I understand legislating the game to an extent, and the rules changes that Phred mentions were good changes.  I just think it is hard to legislate head to head to a certain extent because sometimes players will butt helmuts unintentionally.  You can't throw a flag on every down. 

This is a question that nobody really has an answer for.  You listen to sports radio and nobody has an idea for how to prevent this.  In the end, we can all pray for for the return to health for Chris Norton and other players that have been injured in the game.  It's hard to say what else can be done.