FB: American Rivers Conference

[doolittledog]

I hear what you're saying, but just because a school can't field a team with the proper players should they just throw the 8-9 freshman to the wolves? Go ironman...or something.

I'm still wondering why the NCAA didn't allow freshman to play before?

[/quote]

Well, that's kind of a metaphor for life.  In life, you don't always get the luxury of years as an understudy before going into a job.  Sometimes you just get thrown to the wolves and you see who the strong ones are.  I agree with you, it's not a bad idea to sit freshmen.  I just have a bit of a laissez faire attitude towards government.  I only want rules that have to be there, not rules that sound good.  I go back to soccer here.  Soccer has the "rules of the game"  it's two pages long.  All of our American sports have rule BOOKS and people that have been involved in the game for their entire lives sometimes don't even know a rule when it comes up in a game.  Like the Central on-side kick in the playoffs last year!!! 

[AZDutchman]

Well, that's kind of a metaphor for life.  In life, you don't always get the luxury of years as an understudy before going into a job.  Sometimes you just get thrown to the wolves and you see who the strong ones are.  I agree with you, it's not a bad idea to sit freshmen.  I just have a bit of a laissez faire attitude towards government.  I only want rules that have to be there, not rules that sound good.  I go back to soccer here.  Soccer has the "rules of the game"  it's two pages long.  All of our American sports have rule BOOKS and people that have been involved in the game for their entire lives sometimes don't even know a rule when it comes up in a game. Like the Central on-side kick in the playoffs last year!!!  

Now that hurts...way below the belt on that one! 

[Fannosaurus Rex]

I don't know why everyone keeps saying we can't legislate this and we can't legislate that.  We legislate everything and people learn to deal with it and as someone pointed out, football has a rule BOOK and it is still a pretty good game.  For as much as I have been going on about players not butting heads, I know there is a rule but I have no idea what it says.  I'm guessing it has something to do with hitting people with the top of your head.  I just know that the only time I have seen it enforced was after a player was taken off on a gurney.  Whatever the rule is, I suspect the best minds at the NCAA wrote it to make the game safer and I think it should be enforced more frequently than once every time someone gets hurt.

I hope eventually we all  figure out a way to make the game better.  In the mean time, I am getting very nervous with all that I read about how much Loras is improving and what it will take for Central to put the kind of beating on them that I really want to see.

[NewKnightDad]

DD we tailgate in regents park which is off the NW corner of the stadium.  Just look for the orange flag.

We will have grills fired up so bring what you want to throw on and it will be grilled for you.  Bring something to share like chips, cookies or bars.

The most important thing to bring is your favorite beverage. 

We will actually be serving breakfast this weekend at 7am or a little after if you get to town early.

[AZDutchman]

I don't know why everyone keeps saying we can't legislate this and we can't legislate that.  We legislate everything and people learn to deal with it and as someone pointed out, football has a rule BOOK and it is still a pretty good game.  For as much as I have been going on about players not butting heads, I know there is a rule but I have no idea what it says.  I'm guessing it has something to do with hitting people with the top of your head.  I just know that the only time I have seen it enforced was after a player was taken off on a gurney.  Whatever the rule is, I suspect the best minds at the NCAA wrote it to make the game safer and I think it should be enforced more frequently than once every time someone gets hurt.

I hope eventually we all  figure out a way to make the game better.  In the mean time, I am getting very nervous with all that I read about how much Loras is improving and what it will take for Central to put the kind of beating on them that I really want to see.

Straight out of the NCAA rule book...

Points of Emphasis
The NCAA Football Rules Committee has extraordinary pride in the Football
Code, which was introduced in 1916 and has been updated several times. These
guidelines form a harmony of agreement among coaches, players, game officials
and administrators that places each contest in an environment of fairness and
sportsmanship. It is noted that the Code emphasizes the following unethical
practices: "Using the helmet as a weapon. The helmet is for protection of the
player..." and "players and coaches should emphasize the elimination of targeting
and initiating contact against a defenseless opponent and/or with the crown of the
helmet." Every participant in the collegiate football scene shares a responsibility
for ethical conduct that enhances the future of this American tradition.
PROTECTION OF DEFENSELESS PLAYERS—In 2008, the committee
introduced a separate rule prohibiting initiating contact with and targeting a
defenseless opponent (Rule 9-1-3).
The following are situations in which defenseless players are susceptible to
serious injury:
• The quarterback moving down the line of scrimmage who has handed or
pitched the ball to a teammate, and then makes no attempt to participate
further in the play;
• The kicker who is in the act of kicking the ball, or who has not had a
reasonable length of time to regain his balance after the kick;
• The passer who is in the act of throwing the ball, or who has not had a
reasonable length of time to participate in the play again after releasing the
ball;
• The pass receiver whose concentration is on the ball;
• The pass receiver who has clearly relaxed when the pass is no longer
catchable;
• The kick receiver whose attention is on the downward flight of the ball;
• The kick receiver who has just touched the ball;
• The player who has relaxed once the ball has become dead; and
• The player who is obviously out of the play.
POINTS OF EMPHASIS FR-9
These players are protected by rules that have been in place for many years. It
is of the utmost importance that participants, coaches and game officials carefully
and diligently observe safety rules.
Intentional helmet-to-helmet contact is never legal, nor is any other blow
directed toward an opponent's head. Flagrant offenders shall be disqualified.

[hazzben]

Yeah, freshman (like Adrian Peterson's 1st yr at OU) have no business on the field with uppermclassmen. 

Sure some freshman aren't ready to play, but plenty more are. There are also plenty of upperclassmen who are never ready to play...we can all think of a school or two in our conferences that have rosters full of them

Rex: really, you keep talking about helmet to helmet...have you watched much football Yeah, you can create rules banning helmet to helmet contact, but as Urlacher recently said, "then you might  as well just have everyone play with flags on their waists." Yes, some flagrant head down, helmet leading spears should be penalized. But you can't play football without some level of helmet to helmet contact.

FWIW, I think the hit in the Falcons/Saints game was clean on Sunday. The db led with his shoulder and their heads hit only after the initial contact. It was a good hit that left two guys shaken up...that's football.

And yes, mouthguards at the NFL level would go a long ways.

[AZDutchman]

Yeah, freshman (like Adrian Peterson's 1st yr at OU) have no business on the field with uppermclassmen.  

Sure some freshman aren't ready to play, but plenty more are. There are also plenty of upperclassmen who are never ready to play...we can all think of a school or two in our conferences that have rosters full of them

Rex: really, you keep talking about helmet to helmet...have you watched much football Yeah, you can create rules banning helmet to helmet contact, but as Urlacher recently said, "then you might  as well just have everyone play with flags on their waists." Yes, some flagrant head down, helmet leading spears should be penalized. But you can't play football without some level of helmet to helmet contact.

FWIW, I think the hit in the Falcons/Saints game was clean on Sunday. The db led with his shoulder and their heads hit only after the initial contact. It was a good hit that left two guys shaken up...that's football.

And yes, mouthguards at the NFL level would go a long ways.

Ham received the last scholarship of the 1966 recruiting season. After sitting out the 1967 season, Ham took the field in the 1968 season. In his third and final year of eligibility, Ham recorded four interceptions and 91 tackles. After graduation, Ham went on to an 11-year professional career with the Pittsburgh Steelers.

"I think it (freshmen ineligibility) was a real plus," Ham said. "I am all for it."


Donald Ferrell, an advisor in the Penn State Academic Support Center, also favors freshman ineligibility.

"I believe all freshman athletes should not play in their sport in their freshman year," Ferrell said. "They need one year to get ready. I think the most time is taken up with practice, so they should not play or practice. I think it is worth a try."

Just a couple of quotes. I think Ham qualifies as some one like Adrian Peterson.
A very small percentage of high school players go on to play college ball. From that very small percentage, only a very small percentage of them should be on the field with the 'big boys'.

[02 Warhawk]

Inaugural DIII Football Weekly Fan Poll

Why should the coaches, SIDs and media members have all the fun....

[footballdaddy]

Saw on the news last night that Coach McMartin and several Central players went to Chris's prayer service in Bondurant. A great way to show support.

[Fannosaurus Rex]

First let me thank everyone for staying so civil since I have written so much about a subject that I know so little.  That is the first time I have seen the rule and I like it.  I also like that, even though I don't think it is written anywhere, we give the referees some room to exercise some judgment.  We can write five or ten pages of rules to try to outlaw cheap hits or deliberately dangerous hits but in the end, some of that stuff is going to be whatever the referee says it is.  And, while I like my football as hard-hitting as the next man, it seems to me that officials are erring a little too much on the side of "let the men play."  I don't want to see it turned into soccer or flag football but it would be alright with me if the zebras took a more proactive role to stop players from using their helmets as weapons.  Of course my opinion is likely to change if Central ever gets called for it at a critical point in a game.

[Mav45]

It was many moons ago I watched a show on TV and the guest's main argument on football equipment was that the padding was on the wrong side.  His contention was there would be fewer injuries, concussions etc.  if there was additional padding on the outside of helments and shoulder pads.  Making them less of a weapon.

He had some data to back it up and contended a hit from a padded helmet was so much less severe that it would loose its advantage over the fundamentally sound technique.  The helmet looked kind of goofy but with todays bigger, faster, and stronger athlete it might make sense.   

Maybe we should have all the players dress up in those "sumo wrestler" outfits.  That would be very cool.  The collisions would be slower, but everyone knows how much fun it is to watch people battle each other and fall down.

Just a funny thought, BD, not taking away from anything you noted.

[footballdaddy]

Let's all remember that football by nature is a violent sport. Things happen. everyone that plays accepts that those things can and do happen. the thing that i have noticed is that those players who have suffereed critical injuries haven't spoken for changes in the game. They knew what they were getting in to. It's no different than driving your car. Accidents happen. Even though cars are much safer now than in the past, people still get hurt and die in them.

I belive there should be  penalties for inappropriate play, but don't take away the essence of the game.

[Bird Dog]

I was very hesitant on posting the question, should freshman play their first year? Why?, because I didn't want to show any kind of disrespect to the present situation. I'm sure there are a lot of, what ifs floating around a lot of people's minds. If you feel this should be deleted, please send me a personal message.

Myself, I answer the question NO. I don't know if 5WOL was thinking with the comment, Complete Contradiction, that I was thinking that my sons were the Terminators of the field because I tell them to hit hard. My boys bleed, get injured and feel pain like everyone else on the field.

My older son started his freshman year and he got his butt handed to him by much more experienced juniors and seniors. There was one game that he was completely punished and embarrassed. I think putting freshman in can hurt their confidence and puts them in harms way to soon. The difference between high school ball and college ball is huge.

Why were freshman not allowed to play between 1954 and 1973?

Get ready for some speculation.  In the pre 1960's there was single platoon football that didn't require as many bodies  even when freshman were eligible they had freshman games because they were not needed on the Varsity.  Additionally post 1945 to 54 there were a lot of 25 + year old freshman around because of the wars.

1973 I  think but can't find it the scholarship limit for DI dropped from 120 to 110 and basketball was having its first trouble with players going directly to the NBA and they wanted freshman eligible.

[hazzben]

Yeah, freshman (like Adrian Peterson's 1st yr at OU) have no business on the field with uppermclassmen.  

Sure some freshman aren't ready to play, but plenty more are. There are also plenty of upperclassmen who are never ready to play...we can all think of a school or two in our conferences that have rosters full of them

Ham received the last scholarship of the 1966 recruiting season. After sitting out the 1967 season, Ham took the field in the 1968 season. In his third and final year of eligibility, Ham recorded four interceptions and 91 tackles. After graduation, Ham went on to an 11-year professional career with the Pittsburgh Steelers.

"I think it (freshmen ineligibility) was a real plus," Ham said. "I am all for it."


Donald Ferrell, an advisor in the Penn State Academic Support Center, also favors freshman ineligibility.

"I believe all freshman athletes should not play in their sport in their freshman year," Ferrell said. "They need one year to get ready. I think the most time is taken up with practice, so they should not play or practice. I think it is worth a try."

Just a couple of quotes. I think Ham qualifies as some one like Adrian Peterson.
A very small percentage of high school players go on to play college ball. From that very small percentage, only a very small percentage of them should be on the field with the 'big boys'.

Couldn't disagree more. If your desire for freshman ineligibility would actually take away a year of playing, it is absolutely terrible. Your example of Ham is especially telling. How many college players, especially at the DIII level, go on to play professional football. Mighty few. So you're going to take away a year of eligibility from them in a sport most will never get to play competitively again in their entire lives 

If you made it so it didn't cost a year of eligibility, then you've got a mandated red-shirt situation. DIII already, for academic reasons and others, no longer allows red shirts, unless the player transfers in from another level having already taken the red shirt. In this scenario you are hurting the student athlete portion of the equation that DIII values so much. We are going to force all freshman to sit out one year and then take an extra semester of school so they can still play four years. Again, terrible idea.

Finally, I could care less what Mr. Ferrell thinks. And I'd bet Joe Pa would say the same. Bottom line, the high school game has changed dramatically over just the last 15 years, not to mention the last 30-40. Back in the 60's and 70's almost no HS programs had lifting, etc. The average HS football player today who goes on to play college ball is light years further along physically and mentally than they were back in the day. Lifting and conditioning programs and the increasing complexity of the HS game have dramatically changed what your average freshman fb player looks like now when he steps on campus.

Now, does this mean every freshman is ready to play. Certainly not. But that is why at most levels the coaches have the option of red shirting a player. At the DIII level, if the frosh isn't ready, he won't play, or he'll play JV. But plenty of teams have a handful of freshman every year who are ready to play and make significant contributions right off the bat. Case in point, at Bethel, guys like Phil Porta, Logan Flannery, Kirby Carr, Tommy Davis, Brandon Carr, etc. were 4 yr starters from their freshman year on. Some of those guys were even 4x All MIAC players. So not only were they ready to compete, they were some of the elite players in our league. UST, SJU, Central, Coe, Linfield, etc. probably all have their own names they can fill in here. And that says nothing about guys who see spot duty on Off/Def and are vital special teams pieces.

Bottom line, it doesn't make sense to mandate and regulate how every freshman football player is handled. Every situation is unique. Plenty aren't ready to play, so don't play them, but there are definitely some that are ready (Nate Kmic anyone??) and to force them to sit out and pay for an extra semester of school is micro-managing.

[Wartburg Fan]

Sorry to chance the subject. But as a proud father my son graduates, friday the 22th as a Doctor of Chiropractic. Another ex-IIAC football player does his family proud. Again sorry for this post but couldn't help myself.