FB: American Rivers Conference

[doolittledog]

Speaking of 300lbs...Luther College has to start selling these at their concession stands...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Burger

[DBQ1965]

I just read on the WIAC page that Michael Zweifel did receive a medical redshirt and will be playing for the Spartans in 2011.  Any confirmation of that?

I know we've been through this before, but does he really qualify for one? I belive someone posted the redshirt rules and Zweifel had surpassed the number of games allowed.

I have a vague recollection of that discussion.  As I recall, MZ played just short of the limit of appearances, so he would be eligible for the medical redshirt .  Maybe Pat can clear that up for us.

[badgerwarhawk]

For the record I'm the one who said MZ was granted a medical redshirt and my source is very reliable.

[footballdaddy]

The rule I found said that the athlete has to have played in fewer than 30% of the seasons contests. The IIAC website lists Zwiefel as appearing in 4 games. That would seem to make him inelegeble for a medical redshirt. Too bad if it's true, but maybe being a coach's son gives you an advantage.

[Pat Coleman]

The rule, to my understanding (and I am not an NCAA compliance officer), is actually 33%, rounded up.

[DBQ1965]

The rule, to my understanding (and I am not an NCAA compliance officer), is actually 33%, rounded up.

I guess we just will have to wait and see.  Thanks Pat.

[doolittledog]

Hmm, well if it's 33% rounded up that would be 4 games I suppose.  You would think they wouldn't have sat the kid if they hadn't been assured he could come back for another year. 

[DoubleDomer]

To Warthog's point: Yes, it's getting a little tedious. Having said that, it's hard to deny Mount Union its due; from all outside appearances, they're a more-or-less bona fide DIII school that has, fairly and squarely, built momentum behind a top-shelf football program.  In short, they're recognizable as a DIII program.  In Whitewater's case, however, I would argue--and have, though generally to ear-splitting howls from the WIAC faithful--that they absolutely are NOT DIII institutions.  From enrollment (which averages 2200 give or take in DIII overall, but more than 10,000 undergraduates at WW) to selectivity to geographic diversity to student retention rates to DI transfer patterns (can you say "Booker Stanley"?), the WIACs have FAR more in common with DIIs and DI FCSs--which, incidentally, ALL of the state extensions in the bordering states (MN, IA, IL, and MI) are--than they do with DIIIs.  While these data points absolutely do not, on their own, create a dynasty, they DO make a difference in constituting a football program, and in maintaining its momentum once it's built.

So, to answer the question: I'm personally sick to death of the two--especially Whitewater and its WIAC brethren, which are generally deplorable imitations of liberal arts colleges, and ones that I'm forced to support with my tax dollars at that.  But while I'm resolved to the notion that the Mount has fully earned its stripes, I think that the WIAC schools, were they at all sportsmanlike about it, would migrate at least to FCS (where there are at least three other non-schollie conferences, including one--the Pioneer League--with a decent Midwest presence), or to DII, or to NAIA in any event.

Full disclosure lines:  IIAC graduate of early 80s, graduate degrees from an SEC school and from the Holy of Holies (the Fighting Irish of Notre Dame). But NEVER have I seen, from any of those vantage points, the kind of fundamental inequity that's the WIAC and DIII football.

There--I said it:  Let the screaming begin.

[5 Words or Less]

WIAC doesn't dominate other sports.

[Mr. Ypsi]

WIAC doesn't dominate other sports.

Good point.

They are also considered to be the #1 conference in men's basketball, but they certainly do NOT dominate.

[DoubleDomer]

Really? There are 443 schools in NCAA Division III. As of today's date, 5 of the 9 WIAC schools rank in the top 10%--indeed, in the top 30 numerically--of the NACDA Director's Cup.  Otherwise stated, 55% of the WIAC ranks in the top 10% of Division III, as quantified by the Director's Cup measure.  By mind-numbing coincidence, the very same distribution prevailed in the FINAL 2009-10 Director's Cup standings (http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/d3dcupjun23.pdf) and in the FINAL 2008-09 Director's Cup standings.  In fact, in the final standing for both years, 55% of the WIAC finished in the topy FIVE percent of Division III by the Director's Cup measure.

Care to know the odds of 5 elements in a set of 9 being randomly distributed that way in a population of 443--in consecutive years?

[Mr. Ypsi]

The Director's Cup is a horribly flawed measure.  You will find that the NESCAC dominate more than the WIAC.  (Oh, wait, having the NESCAC dominate would violate every reason you've given for the WIAC domination. )

Or does the enrollment of Williams mean they shouldn't be d3?

[Pat Coleman]

Really? There are 443 schools in NCAA Division III. As of today's date, 5 of the 9 WIAC schools rank in the top 10%--indeed, in the top 30 numerically--of the NACDA Director's Cup.  Otherwise stated, 55% of the WIAC ranks in the top 10% of Division III, as quantified by the Director's Cup measure.  By mind-numbing coincidence, the very same distribution prevailed in the FINAL 2009-10 Director's Cup standings (http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/d3dcupjun23.pdf) and in the FINAL 2008-09 Director's Cup standings.  In fact, in the final standing for both years, 55% of the WIAC finished in the topy FIVE percent of Division III by the Director's Cup measure.

Care to know the odds of 5 elements in a set of 9 being randomly distributed that way in a population of 443--in consecutive years?

In that case, we better break up the NESCAC, too. Too dominant. Not in line with the Division III philosophy. Oh ... wait ...

Listen, just because schools don't "look like" Division III schools to you doesn't mean they shouldn't be in Division III. The NCAA defines Division III schools as ones that do not give out financial assistance based on athletic ability. That's it. Not by size, since that's high school. Not by whether a school is public or private -- also high school.

In general, state schools win about 25% of the national championships, which is right in line with the percentage of Division III that is state schools.

[DoubleDomer]

Actually, no.  You'll find a small proportion of the NESCAC in top 10% of the Director's Cup--50%, to be precise, in the form of Amherst, Williams, Middlebury, and Tufts--that you will the WIAC. And, if you apply a norming formula that eliminates the NESCAC's huge advantage based on the number of teams they field, nobody stands anywhere near the WIAC.

May I ask this question:  Why is this so hard for everybody to accept? 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Hah!  For once I beat Pat to the punch!

DoubleDomer, maybe you oughta take this (futile) argument back to the Best Conferences thread, and leave the Iowa victims out of it!