FB: American Rivers Conference

[Floyd in Iowa City]

Brief impression while attention to IA/MN game......Luther looked laughable.  Wartburg RULES !

Yes, congrats on that women's cross country title!  They do rule that!

They also will rule somewhere between 3rd and 6th in the football standings.

The Norse have gotten hammered three times this season already with the Rams and Knights left on the schedule.  Like Iowa, the coaching staff and administration in Decorah need to get together to talk about why this season went down the way it did and why the depth and talent on the team is so thin at multiple positions.  I am not asking for changes in the head coaches in Iowa City and Decorah, but there is some fixing that needs to take place.  A record below .500 with multiple blowout losses even though you have a 4th year starter at QB just should not happen at a school with the resources that Luther has.  Perhaps a Zweifel/Spartan conference title can push those conversations ahead in Decorah.

Since you pose as an expert, what would you recommend for Luther, Loras, Simpson, BV, Cornell (though now gone from the IIAC)  to the various college presidents to bring their respective teams into upper level competition.  What does Central, Wartburg (RULES!) and Coe so differently?  Come on Man!  Lay it on the line!

New message board name - EXPERT in Iowa City

I guess it should work since Floyd is staying in Minnesota again this year.

[Floyd in Iowa City]

So, I am going to ask the question and maybe it already has been asked.   

Is Coach Z long term at UD?  You know other programs are going to come calling and now his son will be done playing football.  How committed it Stan to the Spartan Nation?

Whatever happens as far as how long he is at Dubuque, this was a great hire for a program that previously had one good season in my recent memory!  Would anyone have thought that Dubuque would have this kind of season 10 years ago?

The facility upgrades are a big part of this as well, but as Luther has shown, a great campus does not win conference titles alone.

The only thing that would change my view of this hire would be some sort of scandal, but I have no reason to think that.  Having him coach for 5 years or 15 years makes no difference to me in that he could do something that hasn't been done in 30 years.

Go Spartans (the rest of the season anyway)!

[NewKnightDad]

Hey DooLittle do you follow the local HS football team?  I am coming up to watch the playoff game next Monday night and was wondering if you would be there.

[doolittledog]

Hey DooLittle do you follow the local HS football team?  I am coming up to watch the playoff game next Monday night and was wondering if you would be there.

If you're coming up for the game I will go...if the weather is nice you might even get my wife and kids to make an appearance.  We usually go to 1 or 2 games in September and as the weather gets cold we don't head out except for UD games.  Wes Burnside is a beast at RB and a lot of other talent on the team as well.

I suppose you are recruiting for Wartburg! 

[Floyd in Iowa City]

Brief impression while attention to IA/MN game......Luther looked laughable.  Wartburg RULES !

Yes, congrats on that women's cross country title!  They do rule that!

They also will rule somewhere between 3rd and 6th in the football standings.

The Norse have gotten hammered three times this season already with the Rams and Knights left on the schedule.  Like Iowa, the coaching staff and administration in Decorah need to get together to talk about why this season went down the way it did and why the depth and talent on the team is so thin at multiple positions.  I am not asking for changes in the head coaches in Iowa City and Decorah, but there is some fixing that needs to take place.  A record below .500 with multiple blowout losses even though you have a 4th year starter at QB just should not happen at a school with the resources that Luther has.  Perhaps a Zweifel/Spartan conference title can push those conversations ahead in Decorah.

Since you pose as an expert, what would you recommend for Luther, Loras, Simpson, BV, Cornell (though now gone from the IIAC)  to the various college presidents to bring their respective teams into upper level competition.  What does Central, Wartburg (RULES!) and Coe so differently?  Come on Man!  Lay it on the line!

I'll jump in with 2 cents worth.  As far as Luther, they are at or near the top in endowment.  At or near the top in annual giving.  Facilities as nice as any campus in the conference.  Largest enrollment in the conference.  Is at or near the top every year in the all-sports trophy.  The Norse are championship contenders in most sports...except for football.

We have a poster on here (Walston Hoover) that mentioned when he went through college choices he wanted a school with a strong music program and to be able to play football.  Luther told him he could play football for 2 years and then needed to concentrate on music.  Wartburg told him he could do both for 4 years.  He chose Wartburg.  When Coach Durnin was hired 4 years ago, Luther announced that the conference average was 65k for a football coach and that they were competitive with that.  At about the same time, Simpson had a high school coach turn them down because he was making more than the 80k they had offered him. 

To me, it looks like it comes down to choice for Luther.  It looks like they are choosing to promote other programs over football and are unwilling to fund coaching staffs at the upper levels you would need to compete for a championship.  It seems they are content to be a middle of the road team.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  It just looks very strongly though, that at Luther it is a choice not compete at football. 

In general terms, I think that schools around the country pay football and basketball coaches much more than they pay the coaches for other sports.  In general terms, I think schools give bigger financial aid packages and give bigger breaks in admissions to football and basketball players than other sports.  Compared to other schools I think Luther treats football more like the rest of the athletic department programs.

There is a successful Division III program near the east coast that is known for being good in almost every sport and yet is a tougher academic school.  From what I know, they make 2-3 exceptions for every sport other than football and men's basketball.  An exception to me is defined where the college admits a student that they otherwise would not or give a significant financial aid package that they otherwise would not.  That school gives out 10 exceptions for the men's basketball roster and 20 exceptions in football for that roster.

Luther has given out exceptions over the years, probably more under this president than the past two presidents of the college.  However, as a couple long time Norse coaches have talked about, Luther has never done anything like what this solid east coast program currently does.  To a certain extent I like that Luther tries to follow the standards they have set for admissions and that the financial aid packages are pretty honest.  I would love to see the coaches supported better however.

I am sure Coach Durnin makes more than the golf coach or the swimming coach, but I think the perception is that the football program is not supported in Decorah the way that it is at Central, Wartburg, and Coe.  The head coaching salary is part of it, but the bigger thing to me when I was closer to the program was the pay of the assistant coaches and the financial aid packages to the incoming players.  You need more good assistant coaches and more good players in football than other sports, but I am not sure Luther is doing enough to support that.  When the pay of the coaches is figured in with the recruiting budget and special exemptions in financial aid, how do Luther and Wartburg match up?  Phred?

I also think the numbers for the Luther Track programs are not what they used to be.

[duhawk]

Brief impression while attention to IA/MN game......Luther looked laughable.  Wartburg RULES !

Yes, congrats on that women's cross country title!  They do rule that!

They also will rule somewhere between 3rd and 6th in the football standings.

The Norse have gotten hammered three times this season already with the Rams and Knights left on the schedule.  Like Iowa, the coaching staff and administration in Decorah need to get together to talk about why this season went down the way it did and why the depth and talent on the team is so thin at multiple positions.  I am not asking for changes in the head coaches in Iowa City and Decorah, but there is some fixing that needs to take place.  A record below .500 with multiple blowout losses even though you have a 4th year starter at QB just should not happen at a school with the resources that Luther has.  Perhaps a Zweifel/Spartan conference title can push those conversations ahead in Decorah.

Since you pose as an expert, what would you recommend for Luther, Loras, Simpson, BV, Cornell (though now gone from the IIAC)  to the various college presidents to bring their respective teams into upper level competition.  What does Central, Wartburg (RULES!) and Coe so differently?  Come on Man!  Lay it on the line!

I'll jump in with 2 cents worth.  As far as Luther, they are at or near the top in endowment.  At or near the top in annual giving.  Facilities as nice as any campus in the conference.  Largest enrollment in the conference.  Is at or near the top every year in the all-sports trophy.  The Norse are championship contenders in most sports...except for football. 

We have a poster on here (Walston Hoover) that mentioned when he went through college choices he wanted a school with a strong music program and to be able to play football.  Luther told him he could play football for 2 years and then needed to concentrate on music.  Wartburg told him he could do both for 4 years.  He chose Wartburg.  When Coach Durnin was hired 4 years ago, Luther announced that the conference average was 65k for a football coach and that they were competitive with that.  At about the same time, Simpson had a high school coach turn them down because he was making more than the 80k they had offered him. 

To me, it looks like it comes down to choice for Luther.  It looks like they are choosing to promote other programs over football and are unwilling to fund coaching staffs at the upper levels you would need to compete for a championship.  It seems they are content to be a middle of the road team.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  It just looks very strongly though, that at Luther it is a choice not compete at football. 

For other schools it is something a bit different for each school. 

Simpson spent the 80's and 90's as a conference power.  They have just upgraded their football stadium and have showed they were willing to pay more for a HC than Luther...they are also sitting at 4-2 in the conference this year and will likely be at 5-2 when they head into their season ending game against rival Central.  Maybe they are on the edge of getting themselves back in the picture. 

Cornell doesn't seem like they ever wanted to compete.  They put a MWC product out on the field and got beat on a steady basis.

BVU and Loras...not really sure what their deal is...and they don't have any regular posters on here to tell us what the deal is.   

I can give you my take on why I think Loras has not been good. Like Luther, I think Loras has enough money, academic reputation and a strong enough brand identity, the administration has simply chosen not to make winning a priority.  Why else would you stick with Biere for 30 mediocre years?  During the Biere run they were typically a .500 team and that was good enough.  Since then they've stuck some money into the Rock Bowl and I think have gotten more serious about competing.  I think if Coach Klieman had stayed at Loras as head coach instead of leaving for UNI we'd be talking about Loras in the top half of the division.  Instead he leaves, they hire Osterberger in a lateral move from within the conference, something I've never understood and gave him 5 years to show he wasn't the answer.  The fact that they fired Osterberger shows me they are taking football more seriously.  We'll see about the new era, it's too early to tell. 

As I've said before, Loras needs to look toward schools like Brother Rice and Mount Caramel,  These are powerhouse Chicago Catholic schools. Loras has the advantage over other IIAC schools there because of location and religious identity.  The top players from these schools are all over D1 programs, Loras needs to gain a foothold there with the second level players. 

I always think to raise your reputation you need to have everything in place and then have a year when everything goes your way, from there the recruiting takes care of itself. 

[NewKnightDad]

Hey DooLittle do you follow the local HS football team?  I am coming up to watch the playoff game next Monday night and was wondering if you would be there.

If you're coming up for the game I will go...if the weather is nice you might even get my wife and kids to make an appearance.  We usually go to 1 or 2 games in September and as the weather gets cold we don't head out except for UD games.  Wes Burnside is a beast at RB and a lot of other talent on the team as well.

I suppose you are recruiting for Wartburg!

I will be there, I have heard alot about Burnside and look forward to watching him run.  If you had to say where Hadacek has closest ties with a IIAC conference school which one would it be?  I remember being at a track meet there last year and saw Hadacek talking to someone from the IIAC and think it was a football coach but I can't remember what school he was from but I know it wasn't Wartburg or Central.

Wauters is playing well this year in the secondary at Wartburg maybe he can recruit Burnside if he doesn't get any DI offers. 

[doolittledog]

Hadacek's dad was the HC at Buena Vista.  He left because he was making a lot more money selling Advocare products.  He now owns gyms in Dysart and La Porte.  The kid supposedly has a scholarship offer from Eastern Illinois but he looks more like an IIAC prospect to me.  He injured his shoulder this season and moved from QB to WR and he also plays defense.  I think he looks like a better WR than QB to my untrained eye.  The sophomore that moved from WR to QB seems like a better QB, but I thought he had college WR written all over him in the 1st game of the year against Decorah.  I suppose with his dad being a former HC in the IIAC he would have contacts at most IIAC schools.  We shall see, I thought he was a junior this year.     

Over the last few years Union has sent football players to Simpson, BVU, Wartburg, Coe, Cornell, UW-Platteville and to D2 Winona St. 

[OhIowa]

Hey DooLittle do you follow the local HS football team?  I am coming up to watch the playoff game next Monday night and was wondering if you would be there.

If you're coming up for the game I will go...if the weather is nice you might even get my wife and kids to make an appearance.  We usually go to 1 or 2 games in September and as the weather gets cold we don't head out except for UD games.  Wes Burnside is a beast at RB and a lot of other talent on the team as well.

I suppose you are recruiting for Wartburg!

You guys will have to let me know how the game goes.  Being a Maquoketa native, I have followed them all year on the radio, but haven't been able to make a trip back from Ohio.  It's always interesting when teams meet for a second time in the same season in the playoffs.  I think this one comes down to who can stop the others running game.

Back to the IIAC.  A lot of things can happen Saturday that might make this a year to remember.  First, Dubuque has a chance to win the title, and Cornell has a chance to finish above the bottom.  Obviously, Cornell needs to beat Luther and a couple other teams need to lose, but nonetheless, a chance for the Rams to climb the ladder.  It will be bittersweet if that happens being that Cornell is jumping ship to the MWC.  For me and I'm sure other Cornell followers, I will be left with the "what if" we didn't switch conferences.  Is Cornell becoming a competitive team in the IIAC?  I feel they are, but we will never know.

[Phred]

Thanks guys for the discussion on competition upgrades, coaches salaries, administration policies.  Some food for thought in what everyone said.  I don't know what Wartburg has done to climb to its present status.  I think the previous president wanted to make a mark in athletics.....maybe shifting some financial aid while still under NCAA rules.  I expect you are right about Loras and Luther.

[Willie University]

So, I am going to ask the question and maybe it already has been asked.   

Is Coach Z long term at UD?  You know other programs are going to come calling and now his son will be done playing football.  How committed it Stan to the Spartan Nation?

Not sure what kind of response you have gotten but my feeling is he will be a part of the Spartan Nation for a long time. UD is a good fit for him and he is a good fit for the Spartan Nation. His son isn't the only reason the Spartans are sitting at the top of the IIAC. Sure, he is a special talent and significant contributer but Coach Z and his staff have assembled a great supporting cast in their 3 years at UD. He has a lot of great athletes in the program and I am sure he doesn't want to be a "one-hit wonder" I assure you.

Not to mention, his daughter became the new Women's Track and Field coach this fall so the Spartan Nation has become sort of a "family" affair.

Not good news for the Knight faithful as the rise of the Spartan Nation may force the Knights to retreat back to their castle

Willie U

[Willie University]

So, I am going to ask the question and maybe it already has been asked.   

Is Coach Z long term at UD?  You know other programs are going to come calling and now his son will be done playing football.  How committed it Stan to the Spartan Nation?

A better question would be........will Rick Willis try yet again to leave Wartburg 

[Ash Park]

So, I am going to ask the question and maybe it already has been asked.   

Is Coach Z long term at UD?  You know other programs are going to come calling and now his son will be done playing football.  How committed it Stan to the Spartan Nation?

Not sure what kind of response you have gotten but my feeling is he will be a part of the Spartan Nation for a long time. UD is a good fit for him and he is a good fit for the Spartan Nation. His son isn't the only reason the Spartans are sitting at the top of the IIAC. Sure, he is a special talent and significant contributer but Coach Z and his staff have assembled a great supporting cast in their 3 years at UD. He has a lot of great athletes in the program and I am sure he doesn't want to be a "one-hit wonder" I assure you.

Not to mention, his daughter became the new Women's Track and Field coach this fall so the Spartan Nation has become sort of a "family" affair.

Not good news for the Knight faithful as the rise of the Spartan Nation may force the Knights to retreat back to their castle

Willie U

Sounds like a little nepotism to me! 

Did his daughter run track at a WIAC school?

[NewKnightDad]

So, I am going to ask the question and maybe it already has been asked.   

Is Coach Z long term at UD?  You know other programs are going to come calling and now his son will be done playing football.  How committed it Stan to the Spartan Nation?

Not sure what kind of response you have gotten but my feeling is he will be a part of the Spartan Nation for a long time. UD is a good fit for him and he is a good fit for the Spartan Nation. His son isn't the only reason the Spartans are sitting at the top of the IIAC. Sure, he is a special talent and significant contributer but Coach Z and his staff have assembled a great supporting cast in their 3 years at UD. He has a lot of great athletes in the program and I am sure he doesn't want to be a "one-hit wonder" I assure you.

Not to mention, his daughter became the new Women's Track and Field coach this fall so the Spartan Nation has become sort of a "family" affair.

Not good news for the Knight faithful as the rise of the Spartan Nation may force the Knights to retreat back to their castle Willie U

Time will tell if it is not a one man team and they are not a one hit wonder.  I agree that they can be a IIAC power for some time to come but they say it is harder to stay at the top than to ascend to it.

Willis may very well move on but having kids in the Waverly school system might keep him at Wartburg for a while longer plus the fact that he is the AD as well as the head football coach. 

Are there any schools in the conference that might be looking for a head coach this year for reasons other than they are moving on by their own choice? 

[Jon Morse]

All that said...I really really really really want an outright title next weekend for my Spartans.  I don't want to think of the tie-break possibilities if we end up with a 4 way title

I just sorted all this out, and unless I've screwed something up, Wartburg, Simpson, and Central are already toast as far as the automatic bid.  At a 6-2 tie, Coe actually wins every tiebreak EXCEPT a three-way tie with Dubuque and Central.

Breaking it down:

Coe, Dubuque, Wartburg, Central: Coe/Wartburg 2-1, Dubuque/Central 1-2; Coe beat Wartburg, Coe wins.
Coe, Dubuque, Wartburg, Simpson: Coe 3-0; Coe wins.
Coe, Dubuque, Simpson: Coe 2-0; Coe wins.
Coe, Dubuque, Wartburg: Coe 2-0; Coe wins.
Coe, Dubuque, Central: all 1-1.  Rose Bowl Rule in effect; Coe made playoffs most recently, so they're eliminated, and Dubuque beat Central, so Dubuque wins.  (Note: I am assuming that just making the playoffs is what counts here, since that's what the wording of the tiebreaker indicates.  If it's claiming the autobid that counts, then Central's out (2009), and Coe wins the tiebreaker.)

So, THIS week, if Coe wins and Wartburg loses, Coe gets to claim the autobid this week since even a loss next week won't give anyone a leg up.  Obviously, Dubuque clinches the outright title if they win.

Anyone see an error there?