FB: American Rivers Conference

[hazzben]

Whos the first IIAC team to crack the top 25 this season?

If Dubuque and Wartburg get wins this weekend I think that will be enough for each of them to get ranked.

Wartburg should have the better shot at victory this weekend.  The knights play at home in their 2nd game against a Bethel team playing their 1st game of the year.

If UD and Wartburg win, I'd be surprised if they didn't break the top 25. It'd be 2 quality wins for UD and a blowout and quality win for Wartburg.

I don't know if Wartburg has the better shot, but as a Bethel fan I hate playing a good team who's already played their first game. Especially when you're breaking in a new QB. But, it is what it is. The other bummer is I'm not really sure we got much usable film from Wartburg week 1. That kind of blowout really doesn't tell you much about an opponent given the talent gap.

But I can't wait to finally get to cheer on Saturday!

[NewKnightDad]

Since the Knight's didn't play until 7pm last knight I decided to catch a rugby game in Waverly with former Knight Blake Suckow and former Knight NC wrestler John Helgerson playing for Bremer County.  It was John's first game and let me tell you he is going to be a beast when he gets some experience.

Sad to say but the rugby game was more interesting than the football game later in the day.

Not much can be taken from that game as the opponent was to be poilte not well prepared.

A couple of good things I saw from the WB coaching staff was 1. They didn't take the foot off the gas after getting up by a couple of TD's. 2. Danny Steifel is the receivers coach for WB now and he is working closely with the new QB.

What I saw and what I think will be succesful for the Knights are tempered right now but the defense looks legit.  The offense needs work as I thought our running game should have been better.  The new QB is an accurate thrower but I don't think he puts enough zip on the ball.  If they had been playing an IIAC opponent I believe lots of passes would have been batted away or picked as they seemed to float a little.

Coach Willis and crew will work on that this week and get the guys prepared for what will be a much tougher opponent next week in Bethel.

Go Knights!!

I thought that Blake kid looked familiar. We played Bremer County last week. They have former BVU linebacker Cody Pierce as well.

From what I saw Cody is an animal!!  He plays hard.

[NewKnightDad]

Whos the first IIAC team to crack the top 25 this season?

If Dubuque and Wartburg get wins this weekend I think that will be enough for each of them to get ranked.

Wartburg should have the better shot at victory this weekend.  The knights play at home in their 2nd game against a Bethel team playing their 1st game of the year.

If UD and Wartburg win, I'd be surprised if they didn't break the top 25. It'd be 2 quality wins for UD and a blowout and quality win for Wartburg.

I don't know if Wartburg has the better shot, but as a Bethel fan I hate playing a good team who's already played their first game. Especially when you're breaking in a new QB. But, it is what it is. The other bummer is I'm not really sure we got much usable film from Wartburg week 1. That kind of blowout really doesn't tell you much about an opponent given the talent gap.

But I can't wait to finally get to cheer on Saturday!

If you are coming to Waverly you should stop by the Wartburg tailgate in the park northwest of the stadium and say hi. 

[DutchFan2004]

OK, here's my theory. There's going to be some "duh" statements in this, and it is very rough, so bear with me.
Why I think Wartburg, Central, and UD are the new "top 3" in the IIAC
Simple answer-Coaches
Now the extended answer-
I only have memory of the IIAC back to the mid-to-late 90's. A new program doesn't join the race for the conference title until the coach of one of the top programs leaves.
Starting point, roughly 1997. Wartburg hires Rick Willis after several years of playing 3rd chair to Central and Simpson (as was the rest of the conference) for several years. Schipper retires I believe that same year. Kac is hired. Even though Central continues to win, there is a downward spiral and they gradually change places with Wartburg being that team that is on a course to win a title every 4 years or so.
Simpson then panics seeing Wartburg climbing to the top and just a couple years after some great seasons, they show WIlliams the door.
That paves the way for another team to work their way into the top 3, and Coe hires Eric Raeburn. He takes advantage of the opportunity and leads Coe to a title in '02.
Wartburg learns from Simpson's mistake and goes in house to keep a good thing going, hiring OC Koehler, and Willis stays very close to the program, having an office right in the middle of all the football coaches.
Now Raeburn is gone. Coe did hire from within, but not by choice of their own after getting stiffed by about 5 other guys. That is why I think another team is ready to break into the top 3, and I think that team is UD. It could very well be a new coach that does it, but it won't be any other coach besides Brautigham that coached his current team last year.
I realize there are some holes here. It isn't completely thought out but hopefully the idea comes across. New teams don't work their way into the top 3 until a coach of one of the top 3 is gone. There is a spot open right now. It could go to anyone, I just think it will be UD.

Swami say: WH's vision clouded

OK, no one picked up on this thread - but ol' Swami didn't give anyone much to work with.  I know that Walston Hoover isn't here to defend his statement, so I'm not going to pick on him.  I've often pondered this quote and believe that there may be some truth to it.  If you re-read WH's reasoning, he says that historically the IIAC has supported 3 top tier teams in football and that change only comes after a coaching shakeup. At the time the statement was written, Brad Boyle hadn't emerged and the Kohawks were struggling, so they seemed the most likely to fade.   

Fast forward to 2012, Coach Staker has righted Coe's ship, UD won the conference title in 2011 and both Wartburg and Central seemingly remain strong.  BUT the none of the IIAC teams were ranked in the preseason polls and they're 1-5 in the NCAA post-season over the past 3 years.  It makes me wonder if the engorged freshman recruiting classes are thin on talent or if the kids just don't develop because there aren't enough coaches or reps available to teach all of the players.  Is it a case of the strong getting stronger, or is it more of a case that both the strong and weak are just being diluted?

My questions are:
1)  IS there anything to the Big 3 rule?
2)  CAN the IIAC support 4 top rate teams?
3)  IF not, then which school will likely fade?

Sincerely yours,
5 Words or More

IMHO you are stiring the pot here with not much to work with since this statement by Walston Hoover is over 4 years old.  There are not many players if any still on the rosters of those schools as well as many coaching changes.  I think the IIAC can support as many as 5-6 top rated schools.  The trouble is there is only 1 AQ and if we are lucky we here in the IIAC may get a pool C bid as well.  I think having 5-6 strong programs would be a blessing to the IIAC.  Look at the WIAC they have 6 schools IMHO that could be IIAC champion or compete for it year in and year out.  That is the best thing about our country in that anyone can rise to a champions level if they work hard enough.  UD, Coe, Wartburg, Central all could have a chance at the AQ maybe even Simpson can.  No reason that Luther BV and Loras can't. 

[hazzben]

Whos the first IIAC team to crack the top 25 this season?

If Dubuque and Wartburg get wins this weekend I think that will be enough for each of them to get ranked.

Wartburg should have the better shot at victory this weekend.  The knights play at home in their 2nd game against a Bethel team playing their 1st game of the year.

If UD and Wartburg win, I'd be surprised if they didn't break the top 25. It'd be 2 quality wins for UD and a blowout and quality win for Wartburg.

I don't know if Wartburg has the better shot, but as a Bethel fan I hate playing a good team who's already played their first game. Especially when you're breaking in a new QB. But, it is what it is. The other bummer is I'm not really sure we got much usable film from Wartburg week 1. That kind of blowout really doesn't tell you much about an opponent given the talent gap.

But I can't wait to finally get to cheer on Saturday!

If you are coming to Waverly you should stop by the Wartburg tailgate in the park northwest of the stadium and say hi.

I was so close to making the trip. Couldn't swing driving 12 hours (Overland Park, KS) round trip and watching 4 hours of football after we just got back from 2 weeks of vacation in MN.

If they continue the non-con matchup I'll have to try to work my schedule better so I can make the next Waverly matchup. It'd be great to meet some of you IIAC guys.

How about this, we both win out after Saturday and meet up in the playoffs (preferably in MN because we won on Saturday) 

Which brings up the logical question, since I'll obviously be 'cheering' remotely, does Wartburg have a video feed online...and more importantly, is it free?

[Old Dutch]

My questions are:
1)  IS there anything to the Big 3 rule?
2)  CAN the IIAC support 4 top rate teams?
3)  IF not, then which school will likely fade?

Sincerely yours,
5 Words or More

Interesting questions, thanks for stimulating some discussion other than how bad Central was last week.
1)  I don't think there is anything more than a happy coincidence that the IIAC often has the trimuverate powers.  Perhaps when most schools were counting on Iowans, and largely small school Iowans, there may have been a limit to powers in the IIAC.   If that were the case, the disappearance of rural football teams and whole rural schools would have reduced us to the MWC.  But now we see recruiting of neighboring state's talent increasing and some of the Iowa big school athletes taking D3 Football more seriously.   We'll have as many powerful teams as we have good academic schools with outstanding coaches.
2)Certainly, especially since DBQ is bringing in talent from IL and WI, the power of the conference can and should grow.  What better way to develop a National Champion that to be playing National Contenders every week?  (OK rose colored glasses on here, but we can dream, can't we?)
3)  NA

[5 Words or Less]

Without getting into an argument with myself over why excessive verbiage only causes trouble, I'm going to take another stab at the top tier theory.  After re-reading my previous post, I'd like to withdraw Q#3 asking which teams might fade, because DF2K04 is right, that's stirring the pot.  It wasn't intentional, apologies.

I looked at several other conferences and observe the following:

• Midwest Conference has two top tier teams - Monmouth & St. Norberts have been #1 & #2 in seven of the past 9 years (St. No. was #3 in 2011 &2008)
• CCIW has two top tier teams - North Central has captured the last 6 conference crowns with Wheaton always close behind
• MIAC has two to three top tier teams - St. Johns and Bethel always in the mix with St. Thomas lately challenging lately and Concordia winning in the not too distant past
• WIAC has one top tier team - UWW is 62-1 is conference games since 2005.
• OAC has one top tier team - Mount Union is 152-1 in conference games since 1995

Without meaning disrespect to other schools not listed, each of these top tier teams has established themselves in recent years as being consistently above the rest of the conference.  If you go back further into the conference histories, other schools will appear dominant for a period of time and then drop.  It's a process of natural selection that revolves around coaching, institutional values, some luck, hard work and recruiting (which comes back to the interpersonal skills of the head coach).

The line that I'm following is that there is only a given number of difference makers graduating from high school every year.  Each of these kids wants to win at the next level and programs that are traditionally strong have an advantage of attracting these young men to build upon what was already there.  So when a new team breaks the glass ceiling, the pool of premium talent shrinks and there is a ripple effect throughout the region.  Seemingly, if a conference wants to chase a national title, the fewer powerhouse teams the better ala WIAC and OAC.  On the other hand, I'd rather watch games and conference races where the outcome wasn't so certain.  It works for the NFL.

Sincerely yours,
5 Words or More

[doolittledog]

I think a lot of this becomes perception to each persons eyes.  The talent level in the IIAC could increase 500%, but if each team is bursting at the seems with talent, you'd have teams going 6-4 that could beat the snot out of the current conference champ.  Perception would be that school has lost talent because a few years ago they were going 9-1 and winning conference titles. 

Long story short...I don't think there is an answer

[DutchFan2004]

Without getting into an argument with myself over why excessive verbiage only causes trouble, I'm going to take another stab at the top tier theory.  After re-reading my previous post, I'd like to withdraw Q#3 asking which teams might fade, because DF2K04 is right, that's stirring the pot.  It wasn't intentional, apologies.

I looked at several other conferences and observe the following:

• Midwest Conference has two top tier teams - Monmouth & St. Norberts have been #1 & #2 in seven of the past 9 years (St. No. was #3 in 2011 &2008)
• CCIW has two top tier teams - North Central has captured the last 6 conference crowns with Wheaton always close behind
• MIAC has two to three top tier teams - St. Johns and Bethel always in the mix with St. Thomas lately challenging lately and Concordia winning in the not too distant past
• WIAC has one top tier team - UWW is 62-1 is conference games since 2005.
• OAC has one top tier team - Mount Union is 152-1 in conference games since 1995

Without meaning disrespect to other schools not listed, each of these top tier teams has established themselves in recent years as being consistently above the rest of the conference.  If you go back further into the conference histories, other schools will appear dominant for a period of time and then drop.  It's a process of natural selection that revolves around coaching, institutional values, some luck, hard work and recruiting (which comes back to the interpersonal skills of the head coach).

The line that I'm following is that there is only a given number of difference makers graduating from high school every year.  Each of these kids wants to win at the next level and programs that are traditionally strong have an advantage of attracting these young men to build upon what was already there.  So when a new team breaks the glass ceiling, the pool of premium talent shrinks and there is a ripple effect throughout the region.  Seemingly, if a conference wants to chase a national title, the fewer powerhouse teams the better ala WIAC and OAC.  On the other hand, I'd rather watch games and conference races where the outcome wasn't so certain.  It works for the NFL.

Sincerely yours,
5 Words or More

I get your point about who is at the top and are changes happening.  I would say with an definate yes.  You mention the MIAC.  Let's talk about the teams you mentioned.  I would not call SJU a force in the MIAC in the last two years for sure and possibly 3.  They have not been in the playoffs in recent years.  St Thomas and Bethel have stayed at the top.  The WIAC has had UWW at the top but so has D3.  UWW is a program unto itself right now as was MUC before them.  I think we may indeed see a shift in the top teams in the IIAC but if Simpson is having a resurgance they are no stranger to IIAC crowns.  The season is very young yet and when the rubber meets the road and the IIAC season starts the questions will get answered.  I do not hold with a snapshot judging who is the new top tier.  If you look the top 4 in the conference has teams move in and move out. 

2011

UD 1st

Wartburg Coe Central 2nd

Simpson 3 or properly 5th place

2010

Wartburg 1st

Coe 2nd

Central 3rd

Loras  Luther 4th

2009

Central 1st

Coe 2nd

Wartburg 3rd

Dubuque Luther 4th

2008

Wartburg 1st

BV 2nd

Simpson Loras 3rd

Central Coe Luther 4th or properly 5th

2007

Central 1st

Wartburg 2nd

Coe UD 3rd

Luther 4th (5th)

2006

Central 1st

Wartburg 2nd

Coe UD 3rd

BV
Loras 4th (5th)

2005

Coe Central 1st

Wartburg 2nd (3rd)

Luther 3rd (4th)

2004

Wartburg Coe 1st

BV Luther Central 2nd (3rd)

Simpson 4th (5th)

2003

Wartburg 1st

Simpson 2nd

Loras 3rd

Luther BV 4th

2002

Coe Wartburg Central 1st

Simpson 2nd

Loras 3rd


For the last ten seasons here is the breakdown


1st place Wartburg and Central 5 each Coe 3 UD 1

Second place Wartburg 4 Coe 3 Central Simpson 2 BV Luther 1

Third Place Loras 3 UD Coe Simpson 2 Wartburg Central BV Luther each 1

Fourth Place Luther 5 BV Loras 2 UD Coe Central Simpson 1 each

Top 4 finishes

Wartburg 10

Central  Coe 9

Luther 7

Simpson Loras 5

BV UD   4

Depends on what you mean by top tier.  Central Coe and Wartburg have certainly been at the very top but if you look at top half finishes by top half I used 4th place as the top half and if there were ties I included the 5th place as the record was good enough for 4th place.  Who'd have thought Luther would have been in the conversation?  If you just look at championships Central and Wartburg are clear and away tops with Coe in second.  I think this depends on the season and who rises to the top.  UD was there last year and could repeat.  I think that there is room for as many as 5 or 6 top tier programs in the IIAC.  I would love to see the IIAC become like the WIAC.  A conference with the D3 champion every year and every other team having a chance at it.  The WIAC is clearly the best conference top to bottom and wouldn't that be a good thing for the IIAC?

[BoBo]

^^ Longest post ever (in inches)? 

[notlongago]

^^ Longest post ever (in inches)? 

^^^^Biggest WOB? (...followed closely by this post)

[hazzben]

^^ Longest post ever (in inches)? 

He may love hitting return as much as he loves eating Dutch Letters 

[putmeincoach]

I think there is something to the "Big 3" historically

without digging through 20 years of IIAC statistics here are my observations of the IIAC:

with some exceptions where a team has run away with the title, you could generally count on three teams in the race

I am going on memory alone so bear with me on this:

long ago everyone was trying to compete with Central

then Wartburg became a prominent player and has been a consistent contender since – I thought Simpson had a few or more years where they were in the hunt but maybe not as many as I recall

Coe came into the mix probably earlier than I recall

recent history has either Wartburg Coe or Central as the team/s to beat most years

if Dubuque becomes a consistent contender (which at this point I see no reason why they will not) the Spartans will replace one of the top three – this year it appears to be Central

[5 Words or Less]

Coach Paul Hefte used to say, "Never underestimate Central.  They may have a bad first game and appear as though won't finish in the top half, but their long tradition will see them through and they'll be as strong as ever come mid-season."

Unfortunately, this usually occurs just before the Luther game

5WOM

[putmeincoach]

Coach Paul Hefte used to say, "Never underestimate Central.  They may have a bad first game and appear as though won't finish in the top half, but their long tradition will see them through and they'll be as strong as ever come mid-season."

Unfortunately, this usually occurs just before the Luther game

5WOM

if they don't handle Augustana at home they will be in for a long season

long road trip to Albion which at this point does not look like an easy "W"

Wartburg Coe Dubuque and Simpson are all very solid