FB: American Rivers Conference

[hazzben]

While not football related, Wartburg wrestling coach Jim Miller will step down after the 2012-2013 year. He will still remain @ the school in some capacity. Co-head coach Eric Keller will take over the program. Coach Miller has done an incredible job, but I am confident Keller will continue the tradition.

A model DIII program. Hopefully their transition doesn't go the way of Iowa's initial transition from Gable's leadership back in the day 

[wartknight]

While not football related, Wartburg wrestling coach Jim Miller will step down after the 2012-2013 year. He will still remain @ the school in some capacity. Co-head coach Eric Keller will take over the program. Coach Miller has done an incredible job, but I am confident Keller will continue the tradition.

A model DIII program. Hopefully their transition doesn't go the way of Iowa's initial transition from Gable's leadership back in the day 

I don't think that it will. Miller will still be around to offer any advice/assistance. Also, Keller has been with the program 2000-2005 & 2006-current. Hopefully they won't miss a beat!

[Willie University]

We have all talked about how scrimmages mean different things to different teams and coaching staffs.  Dubuque beat Oshkosh when they scrimmaged a few weeks ago.  Maybe Dubuque took the scrimmage more seriously than Oshkosh did.  That is why the dismantling Dubuque got from Platteville and Stevens Point really stood out to us.   

You are correct, the WIAC is at another level compared to the IIAC this year and we can forget about a pool C bid this season.

I think as a whole for the years I have been posting on here the WIAC as a whole is in another league than the IIAC.  I would say if there was a WIAC/IIAC challange the WIAC would lose 2 maybe 3 games a year if the ball bounced the IIAC's way.  This year I would say we here in the IIAC would be lucky to steal 1. 

That said it would be 1 vs 1.  and so on.

Oh I wouldn't go that far. Central has beaten SP when they were highly ranked, beaten Oshkosh, played a horrible game there last year and still almost came out with the dub when oshkosh finished in 2nd. BV is usually over matched, but you gotta believe the past few years Coe and Wartburg would be right in the mix with their top 3-4 teams....this year is definitely an anomaly

I disagree. If Wartburg or Coe were to play every team in the WIAC, they'd probably win 3 games at best. Sorry, but like Hazzben said, the bottom 3 teams in the WIAC could win multiple conferences. It is what it is, deal with it and move on. Unless they move to D2, it will always be a dominant D3 conference. The logistics just play out that way....low tuition, high enrollments, , nice facilities, good in state populations to pull athletes from.

And YES, there are exceptions to every rule and once in a while a IIAC team is going to beat a WIAC school in the playoffs so we don't need to live in the past. When central did that they also were dominating the iowa recruiting road where now those roads split to various IIAC schools. (The increased conference parity)

Willie U

[notlongago]

Central beat very good WIAC schools 2 and 3 years ago....the recruiting was already split up. You must be dense to think wartburg and coe of the last 5 years wouldn't have finished in the top 3 or 4. I know you can't use the "We beat this team and this team beat us therefor that team could beat this team" rationale as an absolute fact, but you can predict who would be competitive where, and the fact Central played, competed with, and beat some of the better teams in the WIAC while simultaneously having very close competition and losses to Coe and Wartburg consistently leads a logical person to think those teams would be in the top 3-4 in that conference as well.

[doolittledog]

Uh oh, maybe it's time to blow off work and get ready for the fireworks show 

[Fannosaurus Rex]

Central beat very good WIAC schools 2 and 3 years ago....the recruiting was already split up. You must be dense to think wartburg and coe of the last 5 years wouldn't have finished in the top 3 or 4. I know you can't use the "We beat this team and this team beat us therefor that team could beat this team" rationale as an absolute fact, but you can predict who would be competitive where, and the fact Central played, competed with, and beat some of the better teams in the WIAC while simultaneously having very close competition and losses to Coe and Wartburg consistently leads a logical person to think those teams would be in the top 3-4 in that conference as well.

For anyone who thinks there is any point in speculating as to who would beat who I have two words, "Buffalo State."  It is fun to try to predict the unpredictable though isn't it?  And as for this Saturday, I make it Central 23 Albion 21 the difference being Central's kicking game.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Central beat very good WIAC schools 2 and 3 years ago....the recruiting was already split up. You must be dense to think wartburg and coe of the last 5 years wouldn't have finished in the top 3 or 4. I know you can't use the "We beat this team and this team beat us therefor that team could beat this team" rationale as an absolute fact, but you can predict who would be competitive where, and the fact Central played, competed with, and beat some of the better teams in the WIAC while simultaneously having very close competition and losses to Coe and Wartburg consistently leads a logical person to think those teams would be in the top 3-4 in that conference as well.

For anyone who thinks there is any point in speculating as to who would beat who I have two words, "Buffalo State."  It is fun to try to predict the unpredictable though isn't it?  And as for this Saturday, I make it Central 23 Albion 21 the difference being Central's kicking game.

IF Albion's qb is back and healthy, it should be a great game (I'd even give a slight nod to Albion).  IF #1 qb is NOT back, Central should win by a huge margin.  Their #2 and #3 qbs are both freshmen, and clearly not ready for prime time; after qb #1 went down, a weak Benedictine team came from way back to down Albion on Saturday.

[Willie University]

Central beat very good WIAC schools 2 and 3 years ago....the recruiting was already split up. You must be dense to think wartburg and coe of the last 5 years wouldn't have finished in the top 3 or 4. I know you can't use the "We beat this team and this team beat us therefor that team could beat this team" rationale as an absolute fact, but you can predict who would be competitive where, and the fact Central played, competed with, and beat some of the better teams in the WIAC while simultaneously having very close competition and losses to Coe and Wartburg consistently leads a logical person to think those teams would be in the top 3-4 in that conference as well.

Back before a wife and children, them there words would be fighting words. And yes, again, I disagree and think that wartburg and coe would finish in the middle of the WIAC pack at best. And that is both logic and opinion. Especially considering that there really are no doormats in their conference no matter what the records show. Even River Falls or Eau Claire could probably win half a dozen conferences in the nation.  Not saying they could win the IIAC but I'd put them in the upper half and contenders for conference like the MWC for sure.

Regardless, I am happy to move on to IIAC play so hurry up and get these last 2 non-conference games out of the way 

Willie U

[notlongago]

Central beat very good WIAC schools 2 and 3 years ago....the recruiting was already split up. You must be dense to think wartburg and coe of the last 5 years wouldn't have finished in the top 3 or 4. I know you can't use the "We beat this team and this team beat us therefor that team could beat this team" rationale as an absolute fact, but you can predict who would be competitive where, and the fact Central played, competed with, and beat some of the better teams in the WIAC while simultaneously having very close competition and losses to Coe and Wartburg consistently leads a logical person to think those teams would be in the top 3-4 in that conference as well.

For anyone who thinks there is any point in speculating as to who would beat who I have two words, "Buffalo State."  It is fun to try to predict the unpredictable though isn't it?  And as for this Saturday, I make it Central 23 Albion 21 the difference being Central's kicking game.

IF Albion's qb is back and healthy, it should be a great game (I'd even give a slight nod to Albion).  IF #1 qb is NOT back, Central should win by a huge margin.  Their #2 and #3 qbs are both freshmen, and clearly not ready for prime time; after qb #1 went down, a weak Benedictine team came from way back to down Albion on Saturday.

Listening to the Coaches corner, I read through the coach speak and it seems like he is unlikely to play, but its not out of the question. He said they are preparing as if he will be playing.

[hazzben]

Central beat very good WIAC schools 2 and 3 years ago....the recruiting was already split up. You must be dense to think wartburg and coe of the last 5 years wouldn't have finished in the top 3 or 4. I know you can't use the "We beat this team and this team beat us therefor that team could beat this team" rationale as an absolute fact, but you can predict who would be competitive where, and the fact Central played, competed with, and beat some of the better teams in the WIAC while simultaneously having very close competition and losses to Coe and Wartburg consistently leads a logical person to think those teams would be in the top 3-4 in that conference as well.

IMO, the trick with the WIAC isn't that team A or B could go toe to toe with the WIAC's 1, 2, or 3. Most conference champs in a given year from the top 10 conferences (see kickoff - Pat, I'll take 2% of the proceeds from all subsequent IIAC subscriptions  ) could hold their own with UWO, UWP, UWSP, UWEC or UWL in the years when they finished 2-4. Obviously there have been years recently when UWW would have wiped the floor with anyone, but that was true for almost all of DIII.

But there is simply a difference between beating or hanging with a top WIAC team for one game and having to run the gauntlet of the conference schedule. There are no cream puffs. The closest is UWRF, but again, a team that goes 1-9 in the WIAC could easily be .500 in another conference and in the hunt in the weaker ones. That's where the difference lies.

So yes, Central played with and at times beat a WIAC team (2010 they lost to a 4-6 UWO, 2009 they beat a 7-3 UWL) and then may have lost to Coe or Wartburg. Now imagine if your conference slate contained 4-5 teams of that caliber and another 3 that could beat those 4-5 on any given Saturday. That's the carnage that ensues on any given year in the WIAC. It's just not about beating one good team one week or having 3, maybe 4 really tough teams to beat. It's about showing you can do it for 8-10 straight weeks and have the skill and depth to overcome the attrition. Teams like Cornell, Luther, Simpson, Loras and BV or Hamline, Gustavus and Carleton when they are down just don't exist in the WIAC.

This is not meant to be any knock on a conference or team. It's just the reality of the entity that is the WIAC right now. So call me dense, but I think there's plenty of good, top 25 teams, that if they had to play a full WIAC slate would finished between 7-3 and 4-6 on a given year.

[Willie University]

Hazzben.....THANK YOU for taking the time to explain in more detail what I was trying to point out. That it as real as it gets!

[notlongago]

Central beat very good WIAC schools 2 and 3 years ago....the recruiting was already split up. You must be dense to think wartburg and coe of the last 5 years wouldn't have finished in the top 3 or 4. I know you can't use the "We beat this team and this team beat us therefor that team could beat this team" rationale as an absolute fact, but you can predict who would be competitive where, and the fact Central played, competed with, and beat some of the better teams in the WIAC while simultaneously having very close competition and losses to Coe and Wartburg consistently leads a logical person to think those teams would be in the top 3-4 in that conference as well.

IMO, the trick with the WIAC isn't that team A or B could go toe to toe with the WIAC's 1, 2, or 3. Most conference champs in a given year from the top 10 conferences (see kickoff - Pat, I'll take 2% of the proceeds from all subsequent IIAC subscriptions  ) could hold their own with UWO, UWP, UWSP, UWEC or UWL in the years when they finished 2-4. Obviously there have been years recently when UWW would have wiped the floor with anyone, but that was true for almost all of DIII.

But there is simply a difference between beating or hanging with a top WIAC team for one game and having to run the gauntlet of the conference schedule. There are no cream puffs. The closest is UWRF, but again, a team that goes 1-9 in the WIAC could easily be .500 in another conference and in the hunt in the weaker ones. That's where the difference lies.

So yes, Central played with and at times beat a WIAC team (2010 they lost to a 4-6 UWO, 2009 they beat a 7-3 UWL) and then may have lost to Coe or Wartburg. Now imagine if your conference slate contained 4-5 teams of that caliber and another 3 that could beat those 4-5 on any given Saturday. That's the carnage that ensues on any given year in the WIAC. It's just not about beating one good team one week or having 3, maybe 4 really tough teams to beat. It's about showing you can do it for 8-10 straight weeks and have the skill and depth to overcome the attrition. Teams like Cornell, Luther, Simpson, Loras and BV or Hamline, Gustavus and Carleton when they are down just don't exist in the WIAC.

This is not meant to be any knock on a conference or team. It's just the reality of the entity that is the WIAC right now. So call me dense, but I think there's plenty of good, top 25 teams, that if they had to play a full WIAC slate would finished between 7-3 and 4-6 on a given year.

I think we're pretty much saying the same thing...I don't think for a minute the lower half of the iiac could regularly compete there but the top 3-4 teams could. (the past few years obviously not this year).

Also, not to nitpick but central beat that 4-6 uwo team (they played ranked central, mt union, ww among others I'm sure) and they also played and beat uwsp not uwlx and that team finished #2 in the wiac that season

[hazzben]

Also, not to nitpick but central beat that 4-6 uwo team (they played ranked central, mt union, ww among others I'm sure) and they also played and beat uwsp not uwlx and that team finished #2 in the wiac that season

Yeah, I wasn't sure if I had those right. For some reason the Central links for those seasons didn't work so I was trying to pull that from memory. Too lazy to look it up on Central's site.

[wartknight]

Figured it would be slow in here with many teams having their bye week. Looking ahead to the Knights conference opener @ Simpson, I noticed a few interesting stats (I know it is early & the Storm will have played another game by then;Warts stats inflated by their first game):

The Knights are #1 nationally against the rush; the Storm almost last.
The Knights are #1 nationally TFL-#36 in sacks; the Storm almost last in sacks allowed.
The Storm are #1 nationally in passing offense; the Knights #14 pass eff defense.

Conclusion - I don't think the Knights will give up a 17 pt lead in the 4th quarter again & give up 350 yds passing-ouch!!

[footballdaddy]

Figured it would be slow in here with many teams having their bye week. Looking ahead to the Knights conference opener @ Simpson, I noticed a few interesting stats (I know it is early & the Storm will have played another game by then;Warts stats inflated by their first game):

The Knights are #1 nationally against the rush; the Storm almost last.
The Knights are #1 nationally TFL-#36 in sacks; the Storm almost last in sacks allowed.
The Storm are #1 nationally in passing offense; the Knights #14 pass eff defense.

Conclusion - I don't think the Knights will give up a 17 pt lead in the 4th quarter again & give up 350 yds passing-ouch!!

You can bet your sweet bippy on that.