FB: American Rivers Conference

[hazzben]

Administration - ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!  I think Central messed with a good strategy they had going for all recruits, athletes and non athletes alike.  First they messed up the financial aid in what I think was a major way, now they have changed to a belief that admissions should work at getting stronger students (like nobody else wants them, and IMHO, a lot of them are picking state colleges from what I have seen in the papers).  Not that Central has not always actively recruited top students, but we used to be proud of how a barely admissible Harry Smith turned out, not to mention lots of others like him.  I am also not a fan of the current president, I have heard a lot that reminds me of Bill Wiebenga, who was sent packing.  That comparison and the significant downturn in enrollment worry me.

So you don't agree they should prioritize getting stronger students? Serious question. And do they have a rolling admissions policy or is it a set date?

Here's another serious question on enrollment, do you think the downturn has anything to do with the downplayed denominational/religious affiliation? Just wondering if there's a corollary between the direction of Central and Hope/Northwestern in terms of enrollment numbers and their denominational connectedness. I'm not sure if Hope & Northwestern have experienced enrollments drops or bumps, but they do play up the RCA connection more intentionally.

What's your take Klompen...or any other Dutch posters?

[footballdaddy]

You have some interesting points of view. The two things I would question you on. A) coach Mac is not a rah rah coach but he does get the most out of many Players. You don't need to be a HC to motivate players, zach pfantz was the best at getting players jacked up. Many times dewaard has his players play out of fear of getting berated and loosing a job, which is not what you want for some players.

A lot of the fire that is missing is just due to atmosphere...it is just not conducive to mustering up that raw emotion.

Another thing I would question you on is having Tim c coach....having talked to former players, ,let's just say he isn't thought of as highly of his peers as he is by you.

I am 100% behind Coach Mac and I do agree he gets the most out of his players.  I just want someone to get the team fired up to play from the opening kickoff because in most of the games, the Dutch sat out the first quarter. 

You can go blaming the lack of fire on the atmosphere all you want, but I have watched MANY Central teams that were undefeated in the regular season and the atmosphere was the same then as it is now.  I agree Central needs to implement the stadium changes drawn up years ago, but changing the stadium is not going to make the crowd cheer any more than they did then or do now.  Yes, fans can fire a team up, I'm not disagreeing with that, but I was asked what the change was and atmosphere has not changed a bit, it has been consistently bad.   

And Tim C remains the best QB I have seen at Central and he coaches.  Since I am not suggesting he come to Central to coach his peers, I really don't care what you believe they thought of him.  I don't know him personally, don't know that I even met him during his four years at Central while I worked at the college.  But, I imagine he does get respect from the players he coaches.  And I did personally watch some games where I felt he literally put the team on his back and carried them to victory.  So if his peers have a problem it might be jealousy.

To be fair, those teams were much more talented than this years team.

And perhaps you forgot some of the other players on the team during Tim Cs time....a very average QB could look stellar with those skill position players.
And by peers, I was referring to those that worked with him during his playing years...that includes coaches, players, managers, etc.

You might be a little testy too if you played your senior season at QB with a broken hand. It doesn't matter if he's liked as long as he's respected.

The people I have talked to that played, coached, worked with Tim, etc. didn't exude much respect for him...then again those that are most disgruntled will be the most vocal about it. So maybe it is only a small portion.

Maybe it says something about a team when things that should never leave a locker room are brought out in public by a teammate. Just my opinion.

[hazzben]

Perhaps multiple decades of football success does this to people, but for God's sake the Central Football program is not in shambles.  Here we are, more than half way through the season and the Dutch still could be IIAC champions.  Calling out coaches or critiquing the personalities of former players isn't helping anyone. 

...

One rocky season does not make a ship wreck.  Now is not the time to have coaches and players walking the plank.  Let's see how the season shakes out.

Well said. I've been saying similar things to the SJU fellas. Although I think Central is probably better positioned for a rebound next year. They seem banged up and young. Those two factors are always a likely recipe for a strong showing the following season. You've got tons of young players getting tons of reps. Probably positions the Dutch for some good years down the road, unlike the Johnnies who's self assessed problem by the SJU posters is a talent/recruiting drop.

Coach Mac seems like a pretty sharp guy. I'm guessing this is a momentary blip

[warthog]

Maybe it says something about a team when things that should never leave a locker room are brought out in public by a teammate. Just my opinion.

You could be on to something fbd.  Little Warthog's class played their last game against Linfield College on Thanksgiving weekend 2003 in Salem, Oregon. (The field in McMinnville, Oregon was unplayable.) Nine years later Little Warthog will not talk about anything that coaches or teammates did or said during his four years at Wartburg that he feels would embarrass or reflect poorly on the Wartburg Football Program.  He will occassionally do a solo act imitating Randy Laing's talk to the defense when they were trailing Luther at half-time one year, but that is all I've ever heard about things that happened behind closed doors.  I have to believe with over 100 players and 10 coaches wandering around there had to be some personality conflicts, fights, disciplinary action, and bruised feelings.  If there were any of these things happening, he won't talk about them.

[D3Dutchman]

Perhaps multiple decades of football success does this to people, but for God's sake the Central Football program is not in shambles.  Here we are, more than half way through the season and the Dutch still could be IIAC champions.  Calling out coaches or critiquing the personalities of former players isn't helping anyone. 

...

One rocky season does not make a ship wreck.  Now is not the time to have coaches and players walking the plank.  Let's see how the season shakes out.

Well said. I've been saying similar things to the SJU fellas. Although I think Central is probably better positioned for a rebound next year. They seem banged up and young. Those two factors are always a likely recipe for a strong showing the following season. You've got tons of young players getting tons of reps. Probably positions the Dutch for some good years down the road, unlike the Johnnies who's self assessed problem by the SJU posters is a talent/recruiting drop.

Coach Mac seems like a pretty sharp guy. I'm guessing this is a momentary blip

Agreed in your comments about Central above.  Interesting to hear the Johnnies may be having some trouble recruiting. 

In regards to your question about a drop in enrollment being tied to a downplayed denominational affiliation, my gut tells me that has nothing to do with it.  I was at Central during the early part of 2000's when enrollment was relatively high, and can tell you that I did not know one person that came to Central because of the affiliation with the reformed church.  I asked my wife, as she hung out with a little bit different group of people than I did, and she indicated the same thing.  Nothing scientific there, but a pretty good gut feeling on it.  My guess is we might be missing Dr. Roe's strong leadership a little bit more than we thought we would. 

[Old Dutch]

Perhaps multiple decades of football success does this to people, but for God's sake the Central Football program is not in shambles.  Here we are, more than half way through the season and the Dutch still could be IIAC champions.  Calling out coaches or critiquing the personalities of former players isn't helping anyone. 

Things are changing.  We can no longer assume Central, Coe, and Wartburg will automatically some how distribute the top three places in the conference race among themselves.  Dubuque and Simpson in the IIAC are getting better.  Former IIAC members Wm Penn (NAIA), Cornell (MWC), and Upper Iowa (NCAA D2) are having better luck in their new environments.  To be getting better, all five of these teams are improving their rosters.  The players are coming from somewhere and maybe these somewheres are the places Central would recruit. 

One rocky season does not make a ship wreck.  Now is not the time to have coaches and players walking the plank.  Let's see how the season shakes out.

Now the important thing I wanted to post.  Just how in the world can my Knights pull the upset and beat Coe in Cedar Rapids this Saturday?  By comparing the results that each had when playing Simpson it doesn't look too good for the Black and Orange.

This must be a first, I totally Agree with Warthog! 

[Klompen]

Perhaps multiple decades of football success does this to people, but for God's sake the Central Football program is not in shambles. 

One rocky season does not make a ship wreck.  Now is not the time to have coaches and players walking the plank.  Let's see how the season shakes out.

Not sure whose post you are directing this too, but I don't think any of the Dutch fans said the Central football program is in shambles or that any of the coaches or players should be walking the plank.  I agree with most other Dutch posters on here that this is a young team, hobbled by injuries, that has a great future.  We are realistic enough to see that it won't be this year, but that doesn't mean that the whole program is in shambles or that any coach or player should leave.  The conference losses have been close ones that could have gone either way.  Even the Oshkosh loss feels a lot better after last week's UWO win over UWW.  There are people at Central I wouldn't mind seeing walk the plank, but they aren't anywhere in the athletic office or student body. 

[Klompen]

Administration - ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!  I think Central messed with a good strategy they had going for all recruits, athletes and non athletes alike.  First they messed up the financial aid in what I think was a major way, now they have changed to a belief that admissions should work at getting stronger students (like nobody else wants them, and IMHO, a lot of them are picking state colleges from what I have seen in the papers).  Not that Central has not always actively recruited top students, but we used to be proud of how a barely admissible Harry Smith turned out, not to mention lots of others like him.  I am also not a fan of the current president, I have heard a lot that reminds me of Bill Wiebenga, who was sent packing.  That comparison and the significant downturn in enrollment worry me.

So you don't agree they should prioritize getting stronger students? Serious question. And do they have a rolling admissions policy or is it a set date?

Here's another serious question on enrollment, do you think the downturn has anything to do with the downplayed denominational/religious affiliation? Just wondering if there's a corollary between the direction of Central and Hope/Northwestern in terms of enrollment numbers and their denominational connectedness. I'm not sure if Hope & Northwestern have experienced enrollments drops or bumps, but they do play up the RCA connection more intentionally.

What's your take Klompen...or any other Dutch posters?

Serious response to a serious question.  I think strong students have always been a priority at Central, but should increasing that population be the priority when enrollment is dropping?  Here are my concerns with that strategy:  1)  The number of top academic students is a very small portion of the admission funnel.  Like a bell curve, there are the smallest numbers at the highest and lowest academic ends with a lot of really great potential students in the middle that will be getting less admission attention if the priority is on the small group of really top notch students.  2)  Every schoool wants top students attending and those students are getting attention from everyone, making Central's increased recruitment efforts of those students watered down by such a high level of competition for that group.  3)  Every year the Des Moines register does a spread on those top students in the state and where they are going.  Some choose Ivy League/other big name schools, but invariably, the number of these students choosing Iowa and Iowa State is staggering, given that most of these kids will get huge aid offers from private schools, but whether it is bigger and better labs/facilities, higher name recognition of faculty, or whatever, most of them are choosing state universities.  4)  The amount of scholarship aid average students expect as an entitlement is unbelievable, the amount required to reel in the top students is a huge percentage of tuition, if not full tuition, meaning while they may add a lot to the classroom, they don't do much to meet the financial needs of the college. 

If enrollment is down, there are far more 2.500 - 3.500 GPA kids out there to be recruited who aren't getting calls from every college that bought the list of 3.750 GPA and > 28 ACT composite kids.  These students are also less demanding about how much financial aid they should have and pitting one aid package against another.  I'm not saying drag the bottom of the admission funnel, but concentrate on where there are higher numbers of still quality kids.  An extra $3000 in scholarship money might get you one "Top" student, but it might get you 3 good students.  And Central has a rolling admission policy, including the week classes start if they can get all the paperwork in time.

As to the RCA connection, I would agree Central's link to the RCA is the weakest of Central, Hope and Northwestern, but it is there and recognized, if not played up.  Truthfully, the RCA is relatively small and over the 21 years I worked there it was pretty consistently about 5% of the student population.  They have tried all kinds of things to recruit more RCA students, but it isn't that large a population and is far less loyal to any of the 3 schools than the Christian Reformed population is to Dordt or Calvin.  I don't know that if Central was the most popular of the 3 colleges with the RCA churches that it would really raise admission that much.  There are FAR more Catholics and Lutherans out there.  It is almost the equivalent of trying to recruit more ethnic diversity, the numbers are just too small to start with.

[Klompen]

Perhaps multiple decades of football success does this to people, but for God's sake the Central Football program is not in shambles.  Here we are, more than half way through the season and the Dutch still could be IIAC champions.  Calling out coaches or critiquing the personalities of former players isn't helping anyone. 

Things are changing.  We can no longer assume Central, Coe, and Wartburg will automatically some how distribute the top three places in the conference race among themselves.  Dubuque and Simpson in the IIAC are getting better.  Former IIAC members Wm Penn (NAIA), Cornell (MWC), and Upper Iowa (NCAA D2) are having better luck in their new environments.  To be getting better, all five of these teams are improving their rosters.  The players are coming from somewhere and maybe these somewheres are the places Central would recruit. 

One rocky season does not make a ship wreck.  Now is not the time to have coaches and players walking the plank.  Let's see how the season shakes out.

Now the important thing I wanted to post.  Just how in the world can my Knights pull the upset and beat Coe in Cedar Rapids this Saturday?  By comparing the results that each had when playing Simpson it doesn't look too good for the Black and Orange.

This must be a first, I totally Agree with Warthog!

And here I was thinking it was a first that I agreed with footballdaddy!     I do agree with Warthog too, as I said in an earlier post, or more accurately, said that I wasn't saying anything about what he had concluded was being said.

[5 Words or Less]

   
Jeff "Stephanopoulos" McMartin.

[Pat Coleman]

I know everyone is busy talking about the decline and fall of Central civilization, but I'll be coming to Coe for the first time on Saturday. What should I take in and where should I have dinner? (And which house is it I should not park in front of?)

[NewKnightDad]

I know everyone is busy talking about the decline and fall of Central civilization, but I'll be coming to Coe for the first time on Saturday. What should I take in and where should I have dinner? (And which house is it I should not park in front of?)

Finding a place to park is sometimes a difficult task at Coe.  In my opinion the best tailgating happens around the Homeport most years but the Coe faithful have put pressure on the owner to not let us WB faithful utilize his property like in years past.  We will be very close however  so look for the orange flags WB fans!!

It has been a long time since I have been there but the Sip & Stir across 1st Ave used to have pretty good pizza. 

[footballdaddy]

Maybe it says something about a team when things that should never leave a locker room are brought out in public by a teammate. Just my opinion.

You could be on to something fbd.  Little Warthog's class played their last game against Linfield College on Thanksgiving weekend 2003 in Salem, Oregon. (The field in McMinnville, Oregon was unplayable.) Nine years later Little Warthog will not talk about anything that coaches or teammates did or said during his four years at Wartburg that he feels would embarrass or reflect poorly on the Wartburg Football Program.  He will occassionally do a solo act imitating Randy Laing's talk to the defense when they were trailing Luther at half-time one year, but that is all I've ever heard about things that happened behind closed doors.  I have to believe with over 100 players and 10 coaches wandering around there had to be some personality conflicts, fights, disciplinary action, and bruised feelings.  If there were any of these things happening, he won't talk about them.

I look at teammates like family. no matter what happens internally, I will fight anyone who says or does anything against a member of my family or my teammate. There is a bond there that can't be broken. What I find curious is that one who posts on here about the solidarity and sacrifice of a team will so easily throw a member under the bus. Granted,he may not have played with him, but they are the same football family. Odd.

[Kohawk Nation]

I know everyone is busy talking about the decline and fall of Central civilization, but I'll be coming to Coe for the first time on Saturday. What should I take in and where should I have dinner? (And which house is it I should not park in front of?)

Finding a place to park is sometimes a difficult task at Coe.  In my opinion the best tailgating happens around the Homeport most years but the Coe faithful have put pressure on the owner to not let us WB faithful utilize his property like in years past.  We will be very close however  so look for the orange flags WB fans!!

It has been a long time since I have been there but the Sip & Stir across 1st Ave used to have pretty good pizza. 

The TIC TOC and Sip & Stir are both pretty close to Coe, otherwise downtown Cedar Rapids is about 2 mins away and I would suggest Red's Public House, Parlor City Pub and Eatery, or Jersey's Pub and Grub that all have excellent pizza and beer selection.  NKD is correct that most of the tailgating happens around Homeport, and no idea where the crazy dude lives/lived.  Just stick with the Coe faithful, they'll keep you out of harms way.

[warthog]

It may end up being a little cool in Ceder Rapids tomorrow.  I'm throwing in an extra stadium blanket.

Hopefully my lucky UD Spartan cap will bring the Knights a victory tomorrow.  It helped the Spartans last year at Coe.

Pat, stop by and say hello.  I'm sure I'll be the only guy in the east end zone sitting in a lawn chair, wearing Wartburg orange/black, and sporting a UD Spartan "TEAM" cap. 

Perhaps Coe fans will show up this year.  The last few times we've been there half the home seating gets filled up with Wartburg fans.  It has improved some with more visitor side seating.  Hopefully the best stadium hotdogs in the conference are still being served at Coe.

As for dinner, we enjoy the Hacienda on Center Point Road as our post-game stop.