FB: American Rivers Conference

[wildcat11]

Boo Hiss.  I stand my ground.  A team that wins its conference championship with an unblemished record should always get to host unless they are playing another conference champion.  You win the trophy, you get the bacon.  Sorry, St. John's, but you you didn't win your conference title.  So the MIAC has two teams hosting?  Boo Hiss.  The WIAC has two teams hosting?   St. Norbert is undefeated and won their conference championship, but they have to travel to Whitewater?  Boo Hiss.  Either it's a level playing field or it's not!  If the colleges with 10,000 students want to play with schools a fifth their size they already have a huge advantage.  They don't need a home field advantage, too.

[d-train]

Boo Hiss.  I stand my ground.  A team that wins its conference championship with an unblemished record should always get to host unless they are playing another conference champion.  You win the trophy, you get the bacon.  Sorry, St. John's, but you you didn't win your conference title.  So the MIAC has two teams hosting?  Boo Hiss.  The WIAC has two teams hosting?   St. Norbert is undefeated and won their conference championship, but they have to travel to Whitewater?  Boo Hiss.  Either it's a level playing field or it's not!  If the colleges with 10,000 students want to play with schools a fifth their size they already have a huge advantage.  They don't need a home field advantage, too.

It's not. Wartburg and/or Platteville (and possibly others left out of the playoffs) would have run through the MWC undefeated. Go to Whitewater and win - then maybe a 10-0 MWC team can host next year.  Monmouth hosted a few playoff games in the past.   

[AO]

Boo Hiss.  I stand my ground.  A team that wins its conference championship with an unblemished record should always get to host unless they are playing another conference champion.  You win the trophy, you get the bacon.  Sorry, St. John's, but you you didn't win your conference title.  So the MIAC has two teams hosting?  Boo Hiss.  The WIAC has two teams hosting?   St. Norbert is undefeated and won their conference championship, but they have to travel to Whitewater?  Boo Hiss.  Either it's a level playing field or it's not!  If the colleges with 10,000 students want to play with schools a fifth their size they already have a huge advantage.  They don't need a home field advantage, too.

Home field advantage is overrated.  Especially in the D3 playoffs.  Attendance is way down up here with the colder weather.   The last thing you want to do is make St. John's go on the road and let them think they're the underdog. 

[ExTartanPlayer]

Boo Hiss.  I stand my ground.  A team that wins its conference championship with an unblemished record should always get to host unless they are playing another conference champion.  You win the trophy, you get the bacon.  Sorry, St. John's, but you you didn't win your conference title.  So the MIAC has two teams hosting?  Boo Hiss.  The WIAC has two teams hosting?   St. Norbert is undefeated and won their conference championship, but they have to travel to Whitewater?  Boo Hiss.  Either it's a level playing field or it's not!  If the colleges with 10,000 students want to play with schools a fifth their size they already have a huge advantage.  They don't need a home field advantage, too.

Applause (to wildcat11, that is).

I'll halfway grant you that I don't particularly love an undefeated conference champion traveling to a Pool C team.  Perhaps St. Norbert has a modest gripe here.

But for Dubuque/St. John's?  Come on.  Dubuque lost to St. John's by 36 points.  No reason that SJU should have to travel to Dubuque just because DBQ is a "conference champion" and St. John's is a Pool C team.

[DuffMan]

I've been a part of both home and away playoff runs, and while there is a nice familiarity to playing at home, and it's nice for the fans, as a player, I loved those road trips--no distractions and great bonding time with your teammates.

Regardless, Dubuque/SJU--you're probably the only one that thinks Dubuque should be hosting that game.   

If it were supposed to be a "level playing field", why would the seed the brackets?  What would be the purpose of regional rankings and strength of schedule?  Conference champ doesn't matter because the conferences are't equal.

[doolittledog]

Well, if home field really doesn't mean anything in the playoffs.  And if you want to really motivate teams to win their conference or they face going on the road in the 1st round.  Then pool B and pool C teams go on the road in the 1st round 

Not that I totally agree with this line of thinking.  But again, if home field means nothing...and these teams are truly superior...what's the difference???

Either way, I will be watching my daughter dance in the Nutcracker this weekend while hoping my son sits still in the crowd and doesn't tick off those sitting around him because he doesn't want to watch ballet.  There is a chance I will be checking my phone during scenes my daughter is not on stage.  Go Spartans!

[MediaGuy]

Boo Hiss.  I stand my ground.  A team that wins its conference championship with an unblemished record should always get to host unless they are playing another conference champion.  You win the trophy, you get the bacon.  Sorry, St. John's, but you you didn't win your conference title.  So the MIAC has two teams hosting?  Boo Hiss.  The WIAC has two teams hosting?   St. Norbert is undefeated and won their conference championship, but they have to travel to Whitewater?  Boo Hiss.  Either it's a level playing field or it's not!  If the colleges with 10,000 students want to play with schools a fifth their size they already have a huge advantage.  They don't need a home field advantage, too.

Home field advantage is overrated.  Especially in the D3 playoffs.  Attendance is way down up here with the colder weather.   The last thing you want to do is make St. John's go on the road and let them think they're the underdog.

I can't say that I agree with the point that home field advantage means little to nothing in the playoffs.  I was at all the Wartburg playoff games last year, and the crowd played a big part in helping the Knights get past both St. Thomas and St. John's.  The crowd got so loud at the St. John's game that the home stands were shaking and it unplugged the scoreboard.  I really thought that the intensity and noise in the crowd helped to ramp up the pressure on the opposing team.  Also, in the quarterfinals at Whitewater, although the crowd basically sat on their hands for the first 3 quarters, they were definitely loud and intimidating in the 4th quarter.  So in my book, home field advantage is a big factor.
As for who has to travel where in the playoffs, It seems that the field was set with regional rankings in mind.  It makes sense the committee would use the regional rankings as they seem to be viewed as the "bible" for the playoff committee...The regional rankings are one of the main things that kept both Platteville and Wartburg out of the playoffs...along with the fact that 3 of the last 6 semi-finalists took up half of the Pool C bids.
 

[MediaGuy]

And while I'm on the topic of regional rankings, I would like to see a revisit or possibly some statistical breakdown on how well the strength of schedule is used to determine a teams playoff pedigree.  For example...

121 Central 6-4 .502 IIAC (Benedictine, Maranatha Baptist, Monmouth)
124 Ripon 7-3 .500 MWC (St Scholastica, Rockford)
153 Wartburg 9-1 .490 IIAC (Bethel, Augsburg, UW-Stout)

Not to pick any fights, but...
Ripon plays in the 22nd ranked conference according to the late season rankings, Non-conference included a 1 point win over a 3-7 Rockford team from the 24th ranked conference NACC with a non-con win/loss of 9-14.  And a 1 point win over St. Scholastica 9-1, playoff qualifier from the 27th (lowest) ranked conference UMAC with a 2-7 non-con win\loss and no significant playoff wins.
Central plays in the 12th ranked conference, with a 2 point loss to Benedictine 7-3 from the previously mentioned NACC, a 4 point win over Monmouth 8-2 from the 22nd ranked conference MWC, and a 65 point win over Maranatha Baptist, arguably the worst team in D3 football.

Wartburg plays in the IIAC (12th ranked), and has 3 close wins over Augsburg 5-5, Bethel 5-5, both from the 2nd ranked MIAC, and UW-Stout 3-7 from the WIAC the top ranked conference in all of D3. 

What I can't figure is how Wartburg's SOS is a full 25+ rankings lower than Ripon, a team which plays a much lower ranked conference with 2 very soft non-conference games, and Central, a team from the same conference, who played 2 above average teams and the worst team in d3.

I'm sure that Wartburg did not make it out onto the table for the playoff discussion as they were most likely ranked behind Plattville, but if they were, I don't feel that the current SOS would have been an accurate or appropriate way to objectively compare teams.

But that's just my 2 cents worth.   

[AO]

Boo Hiss.  I stand my ground.  A team that wins its conference championship with an unblemished record should always get to host unless they are playing another conference champion.  You win the trophy, you get the bacon.  Sorry, St. John's, but you you didn't win your conference title.  So the MIAC has two teams hosting?  Boo Hiss.  The WIAC has two teams hosting?   St. Norbert is undefeated and won their conference championship, but they have to travel to Whitewater?  Boo Hiss.  Either it's a level playing field or it's not!  If the colleges with 10,000 students want to play with schools a fifth their size they already have a huge advantage.  They don't need a home field advantage, too.

Home field advantage is overrated.  Especially in the D3 playoffs.  Attendance is way down up here with the colder weather.   The last thing you want to do is make St. John's go on the road and let them think they're the underdog.

I can't say that I agree with the point that home field advantage means little to nothing in the playoffs.  I was at all the Wartburg playoff games last year, and the crowd played a big part in helping the Knights get past both St. Thomas and St. John's.  The crowd got so loud at the St. John's game that the home stands were shaking and it unplugged the scoreboard.  I really thought that the intensity and noise in the crowd helped to ramp up the pressure on the opposing team.  Also, in the quarterfinals at Whitewater, although the crowd basically sat on their hands for the first 3 quarters, they were definitely loud and intimidating in the 4th quarter.  So in my book, home field advantage is a big factor.
As for who has to travel where in the playoffs, It seems that the field was set with regional rankings in mind.  It makes sense the committee would use the regional rankings as they seem to be viewed as the "bible" for the playoff committee...The regional rankings are one of the main things that kept both Platteville and Wartburg out of the playoffs...along with the fact that 3 of the last 6 semi-finalists took up half of the Pool C bids.

So your evidence of home field advantage is a favored Wartburg team barely winning games at home while nearly upsetting a heavily favored Whitewater team that hadn't lost in years on the road?

Your SOS question is simply answered by the fact that they don't include margin of victory in their calculation.  If they used Massey's SOS Wartburg would have the 87th toughest schedule, compared to Ripon's 203rd toughest schedule.  This still wouldn't get you past Platteville who had the 4th toughest schedule.  So, the NCAA SOS is still useful when comparing pool C candidates as those schedules still rise to the top.  It's easy to fake a decent schedule, but the harder schedules are still earned.

[DadofBashWarrior..]

Platteville should have been in...

[hazzben]

Boo Hiss.  I stand my ground.  A team that wins its conference championship with an unblemished record should always get to host unless they are playing another conference champion.  You win the trophy, you get the bacon.  Sorry, St. John's, but you you didn't win your conference title.  So the MIAC has two teams hosting?  Boo Hiss.  The WIAC has two teams hosting?   St. Norbert is undefeated and won their conference championship, but they have to travel to Whitewater?  Boo Hiss.  Either it's a level playing field or it's not!  If the colleges with 10,000 students want to play with schools a fifth their size they already have a huge advantage.  They don't need a home field advantage, too.

This is ridiculous. Winning your conference gets you one thing, access to the post-season. Once all the teams have been selected and the field is set, the committee absolutely should do what they can to make sure higher seeded teams host. And seeding should be done with a lot more care than simply saying, all conference champs go to the top of the list.

Not to mention, UD isn't undefeated. They got blown out by the very team they're having to travel to play. That's not a guarantee of a repeat, but it definitely means SJU has earned the right to host that game again. I actually think UD could have a shot. They got way behind early, but their D line looked particularly tough from what I saw in the first game.

And I'm with Duff, road trips are a lot of fun. I coached for Bethel during the 2007 Semi-Final run and being road warriors was a big part of what made the run possible. You spend a ton of time together, bonding and have way fewer distractions.

I can't say that I agree with the point that home field advantage means little to nothing in the playoffs.  I was at all the Wartburg playoff games last year, and the crowd played a big part in helping the Knights get past both St. Thomas and St. John's.  The crowd got so loud at the St. John's game that the home stands were shaking and it unplugged the scoreboard.  I really thought that the intensity and noise in the crowd helped to ramp up the pressure on the opposing team.  Also, in the quarterfinals at Whitewater, although the crowd basically sat on their hands for the first 3 quarters, they were definitely loud and intimidating in the 4th quarter.  So in my book, home field advantage is a big factor.
As for who has to travel where in the playoffs, It seems that the field was set with regional rankings in mind.  It makes sense the committee would use the regional rankings as they seem to be viewed as the "bible" for the playoff committee...The regional rankings are one of the main things that kept both Platteville and Wartburg out of the playoffs...along with the fact that 3 of the last 6 semi-finalists took up half of the Pool C bids.

I think this is probably very overstated. I know fans love to think it matters a ton. And in stadiums where there are seats on only one side, I could see it being the case, as that can be a very sterile environment for the visiting team. But at the D3 level, the number of fans we're talking about just doesn't have as great of an effect as you think. It doesn't at all effect your ability to communicate with fellow players and coaches on the sideline (I played in the 2003 SJU v. BU game, probably double or triple the fans than were at the Wartburg playoff games, and an equally intense matchup.) The emotion comes with being in the playoffs. I've played an coached in playoff games with a few thousand fans that had immensely more intensity than BU-SJU games with 10,000+ on hand. The stakes doe the emotion, not the fans. And for those SJU and UST players, they'll have been in front of significantly more fans for Tommie - Johnnie. Not to mention, I'm sure SJU had a ton of its own fans on hand last year.

Granted, I've witnessed Wartburg's hostility for an opposing team. But that was more coaches coming onto the field and cussing out and taunting our players.  The drunk students hanging out of their dorm windows were annoying to the parents in the stands, but it had zero bearing on the team. Sorry, just couldn't resist 

Any team worth its salt and with the ability to make a run in the playoffs is going to significantly tune out d3 level crowd noise.

[ExTartanPlayer]

I can't say that I agree with the point that home field advantage means little to nothing in the playoffs.  I was at all the Wartburg playoff games last year, and the crowd played a big part in helping the Knights get past both St. Thomas and St. John's.  The crowd got so loud at the St. John's game that the home stands were shaking and it unplugged the scoreboard.  I really thought that the intensity and noise in the crowd helped to ramp up the pressure on the opposing team.  Also, in the quarterfinals at Whitewater, although the crowd basically sat on their hands for the first 3 quarters, they were definitely loud and intimidating in the 4th quarter.  So in my book, home field advantage is a big factor.
As for who has to travel where in the playoffs, It seems that the field was set with regional rankings in mind.  It makes sense the committee would use the regional rankings as they seem to be viewed as the "bible" for the playoff committee...The regional rankings are one of the main things that kept both Platteville and Wartburg out of the playoffs...along with the fact that 3 of the last 6 semi-finalists took up half of the Pool C bids.

I think this is probably very overstated. I know fans love to think it matters a ton. And in stadiums where there are seats on only one side, I could see it being the case, as that can be a very sterile environment for the visiting team. But at the D3 level, the number of fans we're talking about just doesn't have as great of an effect as you think. It doesn't at all effect your ability to communicate with fellow players and coaches on the sideline (I played in the 2003 SJU v. BU game, probably double or triple the fans than were at the Wartburg playoff games, and an equally intense matchup.) The emotion comes with being in the playoffs. I've played an coached in playoff games with a few thousand fans that had immensely more intensity than BU-SJU games with 10,000+ on hand. The stakes doe the emotion, not the fans. And for those SJU and UST players, they'll have been in front of significantly more fans for Tommie - Johnnie. Not to mention, I'm sure SJU had a ton of its own fans on hand last year.

Granted, I've witnessed Wartburg's hostility for an opposing team. But that was more coaches coming onto the field and cussing out and taunting our players.  The drunk students hanging out of their dorm windows were annoying to the parents in the stands, but it had zero bearing on the team. Sorry, just couldn't resist 

Any team worth its salt and with the ability to make a run in the playoffs is going to significantly tune out d3 level crowd noise.

IMO, the "home field advantage" in D3 is not about the crowd.  It's about the comfort of waking up in your own bed, walking to your dining hall for breakfast, walking into your own locker room vs. flying or driving for several hours the day before, waking up in a strange bed, often still having a 20-30 minute bus ride to the game that morning, getting dressed in a place you've never been, etc.

[OzJohnnie]

If home field didn't matter then it wouldn't be desired. Not worth a lot?  Wrong, but Ok still worth something.

Monkey stomp for sure this weekend. The moaning about home field shows that you know you've lost this game already.

[doolittledog]

If home field didn't matter then it wouldn't be desired. Not worth a lot?  Wrong, but Ok still worth something.

Monkey stomp for sure this weekend. The moaning about home field shows that you know you've lost this game already.

Good thing I'll be watching ballet and not football this weekend. I don't want to see a monkey stomp

Not even Dubuque fans thought we would see a 7-0 conference record this year, perhaps this Spartan team has a few more surprises to spring on us. I'm enjoying the ride, this has been fun.

[DBQ1965]

If home field didn't matter then it wouldn't be desired. Not worth a lot?  Wrong, but Ok still worth something.

Monkey stomp for sure this weekend. The moaning about home field shows that you know you've lost this game already.

Good thing I'll be watching ballet and not football this weekend. I don't want to see a monkey stomp

Not even Dubuque fans thought we would see a 7-0 conference record this year, perhaps this Spartan team has a few more surprised that to spring on us. I'm enjoying the ride, this has been fun.

As I said in an earlier post, the only thing I thought UD would play for this season was the Key with the Loras game.  The IIAC Championship was unexpected ... and while I'm not optimistic about this weekend, I am hopeful.  Coach Z is not to be underestimated ... and neither are the Spartans.  No monkey stomp ...maybe a surprising dumpster fire.

So ... enjoy the ballet d-dog ... those moments are more rare than you realize ...and can never be reclaimed if lost.