FB: American Rivers Conference

[OzJohnnie]

It's easy to spend less when you need almost no compliance...

Huh?  What compliance are you referring to?

As an aside, why do you invade every board and turn a regular discussion into a political one?  Don't you have any other strings in that bow?

[jknezek]

It's easy to spend less when you need almost no compliance...

Huh?  What compliance are you referring to?

As an aside, why do you invade every board and turn a regular discussion into a political one?  Don't you have any other strings in that bow?

The NCAA student athlete compliance rules, the rules for eligibility both pre and post enrollment, are much stricter and require way more documentation and effort than the NAIA rules require. There is nothing political about this and I don't "invade" anything. There are no rules about only posting on the board of your college affiliation.

As for the rest,  I have no idea what you are babbling about.

[jamtod]

It's easy to spend less when you need almost no compliance...

Huh?  What compliance are you referring to?

As an aside, why do you invade every board and turn a regular discussion into a political one?  Don't you have any other strings in that bow?

Seemed pretty relevant to the topic at hand. Something about a pot and a black kettle comes to mind though.

Here's some comments from an AD on the matter:

https://www.cui.edu/es-es/academicprograms/provost/articles/post/ncaa-compliance-guidelines-stress-life-in-balance

[doolittledog]

In the old newspaper article I can never seem to find from when William Penn left for the NAIA, cost reduction (with compliance specifically mentioned) was a big factor with that school choosing NAIA over staying D3 or moving to D2. 

For Upper Iowa, they saw an opportunity in D2 to position themselves as a unique option in Iowa. 

[Schipper Strong]

For the first time in way too long, Central is rated 10th in the Street & Smith preseason football poll and Wartburg I believe was rated 24th. Central has 14 returning starters divided evenly between offense and defense. I sure hope they found someone solid to fill the big shoes Jon Alberts left at kicker.

[BLynn]

In the old newspaper article I can never seem to find from when William Penn left for the NAIA, cost reduction (with compliance specifically mentioned) was a big factor with that school choosing NAIA over staying D3 or moving to D2. 

For Upper Iowa, they saw an opportunity in D2 to position themselves as a unique option in Iowa.

When Morningside moved to NAIA in 2002, (Mustangs left D2 officially in 2001), Upper Iowa had an opportunity to escape the IIAC, (ARC), and become 'Iowa's D2'.  Morningside was escaping teams that today are FCS, (NDSU, USD, UND, SDSU), while UIU was joining true D2 schools, (Winona, Mankato, UMD) and while I thought the Peacocks weren't ready, they've shown to be 'competitive', better than when they were a non-schollie D3.

As far as costs in NAIA, M'side found it to be much more affordable to be competitive at 24 max schollies for football and 6 for BBall, than playing against 36 schollie schools in FB and 10 in Bball.  plus travel is much easier, as well as admin overhead.  I assume WPU found the same

Less compliance, btw, doesn't mean 'No' compliance.  Recently a school in the GPAC self-reported an ineligible player and forfeited a 'W' in football.

[formerd3db]

In the old newspaper article I can never seem to find from when William Penn left for the NAIA, cost reduction (with compliance specifically mentioned) was a big factor with that school choosing NAIA over staying D3 or moving to D2. 

For Upper Iowa, they saw an opportunity in D2 to position themselves as a unique option in Iowa.

When Morningside moved to NAIA in 2002, (Mustangs left D2 officially in 2001), Upper Iowa had an opportunity to escape the IIAC, (ARC), and become 'Iowa's D2'.  Morningside was escaping teams that today are FCS, (NDSU, USD, UND, SDSU), while UIU was joining true D2 schools, (Winona, Mankato, UMD) and while I thought the Peacocks weren't ready, they've shown to be 'competitive', better than when they were a non-schollie D3.

As far as costs in NAIA, M'side found it to be much more affordable to be competitive at 24 max schollies for football and 6 for BBall, than playing against 36 schollie schools in FB and 10 in Bball.  plus travel is much easier, as well as admin overhead.  I assume WPU found the same

Less compliance, btw, doesn't mean 'No' compliance.  Recently a school in the GPAC self-reported an ineligible player and forfeited a 'W' in football.

BLynn:

Thank you for the background information. I, also, did not think Upper Iowa was ready for that move, but agree with you they have been competitive. As much as the old IIAC (now ARC) probably didn't like to see them go, it appears it was a good move for UIU. So, here is a question for you. Do you know if Morningside and Upper Iowa split their total "full" scholarships among all the players on their rosters, if that is even allowed by the NAIA?

[hazzben]

In the old newspaper article I can never seem to find from when William Penn left for the NAIA, cost reduction (with compliance specifically mentioned) was a big factor with that school choosing NAIA over staying D3 or moving to D2. 

For Upper Iowa, they saw an opportunity in D2 to position themselves as a unique option in Iowa.

When Morningside moved to NAIA in 2002, (Mustangs left D2 officially in 2001), Upper Iowa had an opportunity to escape the IIAC, (ARC), and become 'Iowa's D2'.  Morningside was escaping teams that today are FCS, (NDSU, USD, UND, SDSU), while UIU was joining true D2 schools, (Winona, Mankato, UMD) and while I thought the Peacocks weren't ready, they've shown to be 'competitive', better than when they were a non-schollie D3.

As far as costs in NAIA, M'side found it to be much more affordable to be competitive at 24 max schollies for football and 6 for BBall, than playing against 36 schollie schools in FB and 10 in Bball.  plus travel is much easier, as well as admin overhead.  I assume WPU found the same

Less compliance, btw, doesn't mean 'No' compliance.  Recently a school in the GPAC self-reported an ineligible player and forfeited a 'W' in football.

BLynn:

Thank you for the background information. I, also, did not think Upper Iowa was ready for that move, but agree with you they have been competitive. As much as the old IIAC (now ARC) probably didn't like to see them go, it appears it was a good move for UIU. So, here is a question for you. Do you know if Morningside and Upper Iowa split their total "full" scholarships among all the players on their rosters, if that is even allowed by the NAIA?

From what I've seen (close family for several generations have played on scholarship at NAIA GPAC schools) they usually split the scholarships across the roster. But they get creative too. They love good two sport athletes, since it allows them to potentially offer say 1/2 ride in football and a 1/2 ride in track. Also common to see a very good athlete and good student get a 1/2 ride for athletics, and then get the rest covered by academic and leadership scholarships. Also plenty of kids that get offered much smaller deals in the $5k range and below range.

I also saw first hand schools like USF (when they were still NAIA) offer more than the allowable amount on some occasions. On the humorous side, they offered a HS OL teammate of mine an athletic + academic scholarship ... he was a 2.5 GPA or lower. They obviously hadn't seen his slow feet and slower mind.

But I think that happens everywhere. Aka, D3 schools offering near full rides to athletes through creative financial aid packages. Even going back and forth upping those packages when there is a "bidding war" for a player. My guess is the packages for a top player at nationally competitive schools are pretty similar between NAIA and D3.

[5 Words or Less]

Iowa Hawkeyes address racial issues

Iowa football strength and conditioning coach Chris Doyle has been placed on administrative leave, head coach Kirk Ferentz announced on Saturday night, in the wake of allegations by former players about racial issues within the program.

https://www.si.com/college/iowa/football/doyle-administrative-leave-060620

[formerd3db]

Two comments:

1) Thank you hazzben for the additional information. Very interesting. You also bring up another important point regarding the disparities among DIII schools in offering financial packages to student-athletes. Of course, a big part of that involves the size of a school's endowment. Some of the schools in our MIAA have offered (within the NCAA rules) financial packages that are extremely competitive as you outlined. However, some, like my alma mater, have refused to do so regarding athletics, and that has caused a big problem, IMO and that of many others (including some of our coaches) who have privately expressed concern about how significant that has hurt their recruiting and, in essence, the talent level they are able to secure. This also relates to the many DII and NAIA schools in our state and region who offer the fb scholarships. Overall, I and others find this very puzzling from my alma mater because the school can certainly financially afford to do it, without compromising the situation for the rest of the non-athletic student body admissions process and packages. Until that situation changes, many of us do not believe our alma mater will ever advance to the next tier on a regional and national basis.

2) This is not only concerning, but also puzzling 5 Words or Less (sorry, I can't post on five words or less, but many of you already have known that for a long time!🙄😁) Certainly, any underlying racial conflicts in the Iowa fb program is troubling and need to be addressed and eliminated and if the allegations are really true, appropriate action taken, even the dismissal of the coach. However, I also find it puzzling as to why the former players are just now bringing this out. I do not understand why they would not have reached out to some of the other coaches, and certainly the HC Ferentz. Certainly, of this was going on, I can't imagine that someone was not aware of it.

Of course,  all the facts need to be brought out and hopefully, the investigation will find out the truth. Are these disgruntled former players and potentially "jumping on the band wagon" in the wake of the current racial conficts occurring in our country?  I certainly hope not.  If the allegations are true, then, I hope the situation at Iowa is changed and those players will have done a great service for everyone as well as, hopefully, finding some resolution for themselves. If there is any untruth to the allegations (or even a portion of them), what redress would that coach have and what consequences would the accusing players have?  We'll have to just wait and see how this plays out. These type of situations are always troubling, in more ways than one, but...that is the state of our society today, unfortunately. Keep us posted, I had not seen or heard about the article until you had shared it here with us.

[5 Words or Less]

Fd3db - Floyd's death opened conversations

Another question I've heard a lot in the last 24 hours: Why speak up now?

The short answer: Because black Americans are seeing more openness to listening from the nation's white majority, as passionate protests continue to resonate across our state and country in the wake of the chilling death of George Floyd in the custody of a Minneapolis police officer.

... I spoke with a black player Friday night who spent five years in the Hawkeye program. We talked for more than an hour about what he experienced and witnessed. After the conversation ended, he stressed that he did not want to be quoted ... that he and other former players wanted to stress bringing about culture change at Iowa. Their motive is not to tear down a program many of them still love.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/sports/college/columnists/chad-leistikow/2020/06/06/leistikow-culture-change-iowa-football-must-start-kirk-ferentz-chris-doyle-brian-ferentz/3162444001/

[formerd3db]

5WOL:

Actually, those were already there. Did people already forget about the Maryland incident? My point , in part, was where is the responsibility of the individual(s) for not speaking out prior and/or, again, I find it difficult to believe that anyone was not aware of this underlying atmosphere if it was occurring.

As to the player not wanting to be quoted...sorry, but that is a poor excuse. If you are going to put out accusations (and)or support them (especially if you know they are true), then stand up and be honest. Anonymous statements and anonymous sources are a big part of what has been some of the underlying problems in today's society. If you are going to stand up for something that you believe is right, then do it. I am not directing this at you, simply sharing my personal opinion.

Ferentz appointing the advisory committee of various groups involved including former players is a good start. If he was truly unaware of this underlying culture going on, at least he is actually starting to do something about it rather than just complaining, demanding change and equality but offering no specific solutions  as some people tend to do. I think his statement about first listening to people is totally the right first step.

Anyway, thanks for the additional info and perspective. I'm sure we'll all be following this. We can all learn something new and appreciate other opinions and approaches to such important society issues and I include myself in that as well.

[5 Words or Less]

Austerity cuts many D1 programs

https://www.dyestat.com/gprofile.php?mgroup_id=44531&do=news&news_id=603649-List-Of-NCAA-Division-1-Athletics-Programs-Cut-In-2020&utm_content=buffer6fd8a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Here is a chronological list of universities at the NCAA Division 1 level that have cut athletic programs in response to the economic downturn caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.

April 2: Old Dominion - Wrestling

April 14: Cincinnati - Men's Soccer

April 24: Wisconsin-Green Bay - Men's and Women's Tennis

May 6: Florida International University - Men's Indoor Track and Field

May 14: Akron - Men's Cross Country, Men's Golf and Women's Tennis

May 15: Bowling Green - Baseball

May 18: Furman - Baseball and Men's Lacrosse

May 19: Central Michigan - Men's Indoor and Outdoor Track and Field

May 21: East Carolina - Men's and Women's Swimming and Diving, Men's and Women's Tennis

May 26: Appalachian State - Men's Indoor Track and Field, Men's Soccer and Men's Tennis

May 28: Brown - Men's Cross Country, Men's Indoor and Outdoor Track and Field, Men's and Women's Fencing, Men's and Women's Golf, Men's and Women's Squash, Women's Equestrian and Women's Skiing (all transitioning from varsity to club sports, framed by the Excellence In Brown Athletics Initiative)

June 3: Wright State - Softball, Men's and Women's Tennis

[doolittledog]

Getting these stories out in the open will be good for everyone in Iowa City.  Hopefully move things in the right direction, which needs to be done.  This long time fan hopes racial issues improve and the wins continue as well.   

On the scholarship/non-scholarship front.  FBS is 85 full scholarships.  FCS is 63 scholarships you can spread over 85 players.  I've been told UNI typically offers Iowa kids a 50% scholarship and out-of-state kids get full rides.  D2 can be 36 scholarships split between 85 players, though many D2 schools don't fully fund 36 scholarships.  Few D2 kids get full rides.  NAIA I think is 24 football scholarships, and not all NAIA schools offer the full 24.  When my cousin went through recruiting before the 2012 season I think he told me the 2 NAIA schools offered him $4,000 football scholarships along with other aid.  Central and Dubuque both offered him financial aid packages that meant less money out-of-pocket than the 2 NAIA schools.  All the schools offered the major he wanted.  He eventually picked the school he felt most comfortable with.  Scholarship, no-scholarship really didn't mean anything to him, and all schools were within a few thousand dollars overall. 

When it comes right down to it, from the families I have talked to over the years, there is very little difference in what a family pays out-of-pocket between D2, NAIA, and D3 schools.  Now, that said like BLynn noted, for schools athletic departments, between fewer athletic scholarships and less stringent compliance offices you can run an NAIA program for less money.  Or at least for accounting purposes, you can run an NAIA athletic department for less money.   

[formerd3db]

Thanks for the list.

Also, Bowling Green's baseball program has been saved/reinstated as alumni players pledged $1.5 million for the next three years (and actually already raised the needed $500,000 for next year), which the Board of Regea ts required. It was done in less than 5 days, according to the MLive report. This is reminiscent of Michigan Tech alumni saving their football program in the early 2000s when it was cut, raising $3 million in three months. So this can be done at all levels if people really want to do it as I have opined before.🙂

That's some good news for BG in these difficult and troubling times.  That said, not every school will be able to do that or want to, I suspect.