FB: American Rivers Conference

[DutchFan2004]

sportsknight,

Caught you on the air.  We listen every wed. night during the season.  Looking forward to one senior interview this year.  Congrats on the debut.  Are you doing the games on sat too?  You seem to know alot of stuff so I think they got a catch. 

[Purple Heys]

Walston Hoover - To your question on the Wing T and practice.  Cornell has not had the luxury of a true scout team due to numbers so it is hard to correlate the potential negative effect of younger players.  Heck they barely have the numbers for full second and third string practice oppourtunities.  Also not many High Schools seem to run the Wing-T these days.

Meant to say many High Schools seem to be running the Wing-T...strike the word "not".

I want to take a moment to commend any/all DIII athletes.  I coached small college football in the early 80's and was comparing notes with my best friend who was an asst basketball coach at UCSB (D1) when the Thunderdome became famous on ESPN's Big Monday.

As we chatted over beer we got to discussing our players.  I told of how I frequently had my QB's over to the house to watch tape.  I remembered the overall good memories I had about how rewarding it was (not financially) to interact with these young men.  To coach them, to see their eagerness to learn and improve.  Their intelligence and sense of humor and humility, left a lasting impression.  My friend on the other hand had almost nothing kind to say about his players, other than they were great players.  They were spoiled, felt entitled, and basically treated everyone else as sub-human.  He couldn't get out of it fast enough, lasting two years before going back to coach HS.  He couldn't have been more disenchanted...his big break into major college coaching and he was dealing with prima donnas.  Coaching was in his blood too...his dad is in the California HS coaches Hall of Fame.

It is a gross overstatement to say all D1 kids are jerks...but more than the statistical norm are.   But I think it is a safe bet to make that the majority of DIII athletes are in for the sport and treat it like an opportunity not an entitlement.  So if a school wants to bring in 100 or 1000 kids for football...good for them.  How can a school be accused of "hoarding talent" at DIII?  Most of the best players are snapped up by the higher levels.  DIII is left mostly with diamonds in the rough and kids that just want to play.  It's a credit to the schools that support sports.

If I had my druthers, I'd make team sports participation mandatory at all schools for all physically able kids. 

I found my school experience to be richer when I was participating in a sport.  Learned teamwork, leadership, how to build on successa and learn from failure.

[Walston Hoover]

My sons class had 90 report for the first day of football practice as a freshman when they graduated there was 9. I can't remember how many left during their freshman year.  We told our son that he made a comitment for at least one year to the school and the football coach. He did not play a down his freshmen year but he was a freshman in 03 does anyone remember that team ( Ha Ha). I'm glad he stay cause I really enjoyed watching him play for the next three years.


       Go Knights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The amount of guys that left in that class and the following one were the big reason why Wartburg suffered its worst 2-year span record -wise in the last 10 years. It is also one of the big reasons to be excited about this season and the next. The Class that came in in '02 was extremely talented and many of the guys were starting by the time they were sophs. When the class of '03 (which was probably just as talented) came in, many, many of the guys didn't want to put in 2 years of being a back-up before they started, and a similar thing happened in '04. You saw in '05 a 2-deep at Wartburg of almost all Seniors and Freshman. Talent enough to win a title from the starters, but guys not ready to play that were forced to due to lack of depth. Last year a 2-deep of almost all sophs and freshmen saw some "youngster mistakes" but hopefully those will be rectified with a year of experience. Its nice to have the talent and coaching that a bad year with lots of mistakes still yields an 8-2 record.

[sportsknight]

The Class that came in in '02 was extremely talented and many of the guys were starting by the time they were sophs.

I agree with this statement for the most part, but that guy they threw in at middle backer was brutal.

[Walston Hoover]

Worst of all he didn't understand the game of football at all. Good thing he didn't go into coaching.
No athleticsm whatsoever. Its a wonder they stopped anyone.

[sportsknight]

The kind of guy that needs to wear a helmet off the field, if you know what I mean.

[orange]

Actually, IowaConferenceFan, my assertions about admission competitiveness were probably a bit over-stated; a few colleges are clearly able to be more selective than others.  My point, however, is that all "reach" into the bottom half to select some of their students -- and that's how you bring in the top player who can throw a ball, so-to-speak.

As for Barron's characterization of Wartburg, that's either incorrect or they are making judgements based on incorrect criteria. (I was in admission work for thirty years, so I know something about this.)  The College Board data is absolutely clear (www.collegeboard.com):  Students in the top 10% in HS rank:  Wartburg 36%, Cornell 31%, Coe 30%, Luther 30%, Simpson 27%, Central 25%.  Top quarter numbers are in similar order (Coe tops at 67%).  Luther and Cornell generally have the highest average test scores (ACT 25), but the others are close behind (what do you like, test scores or GPA/class rank?).  These IIAC colleges have "bottom half" populations in the 10-14% range (Cornell is 15%), with Coe being the one exception (4%).  Luther and Wartburg have 600 to a thousand more students than, for example, Cornell or Coe, which also is a consideration in "admission competitiveness".

Another variable is minority student efforts.  Wartburg is more aggressive on this front than the others listed above:  8% African-American and Hispanic versus 5% at Coe, 3% at Cornell, 4% at Luther and Simpson.  Dubuque wins the prize in this category -- 24%.

[doolittledog]

Actually, IowaConferenceFan, my assertions about admission competitiveness were probably a bit over-stated; a few colleges are clearly able to be more selective than others.  My point, however, is that all "reach" into the bottom half to select some of their students -- and that's how you bring in the top player who can throw a ball, so-to-speak.

As for Barron's characterization of Wartburg, that's either incorrect or they are making judgements based on incorrect criteria. (I was in admission work for thirty years, so I know something about this.)  The College Board data is absolutely clear (www.collegeboard.com):  Students in the top 10% in HS rank:  Wartburg 36%, Cornell 31%, Coe 30%, Luther 30%, Simpson 27%, Central 25%.  Top quarter numbers are in similar order (Coe tops at 67%).  Luther and Cornell generally have the highest average test scores (ACT 25), but the others are close behind (what do you like, test scores or GPA/class rank?).  These IIAC colleges have "bottom half" populations in the 10-14% range (Cornell is 15%), with Coe being the one exception (4%).  Luther and Wartburg have 600 to a thousand more students than, for example, Cornell or Coe, which also is a consideration in "admission competitiveness".

Another variable is minority student efforts.  Wartburg is more aggressive on this front than the others listed above:  8% African-American and Hispanic versus 5% at Coe, 3% at Cornell, 4% at Luther and Simpson.  Dubuque wins the prize in this category -- 24%.

Woo Hoo, Dubuque wins at something! 

[Walston Hoover]

Actually, IowaConferenceFan, my assertions about admission competitiveness were probably a bit over-stated; a few colleges are clearly able to be more selective than others.  My point, however, is that all "reach" into the bottom half to select some of their students -- and that's how you bring in the top player who can throw a ball, so-to-speak.

A quality jab at QBs around the league.

[orange]

Sorry, WalstonHoover, I didn't intend to suggest anything about the genius quotient of any student-athlete; we all know some of the most accomplished students are also athletes.  Rather, I was trying to debunk what I see as a myth -- that a college in the IIAC has a competitive advantage due to lower admission standards.

[DutchFan2004]

Actually, IowaConferenceFan, my assertions about admission competitiveness were probably a bit over-stated; a few colleges are clearly able to be more selective than others.  My point, however, is that all "reach" into the bottom half to select some of their students -- and that's how you bring in the top player who can throw a ball, so-to-speak.

A quality jab at QBs around the league.

That was a big jab at QB's around the league.  I take offense to that.

[Walston Hoover]

Except we were told early on he couldn't throw the ball, so they must not have been talking about HIM.

[Storm-what?]

OK, I'm sure it will be disputed. But based on the students they accept, the placement rates and the academic profiles, I would list the schools in this order "academically." Not to say you can't get a decent education at ANY one of the schools and get a job. Because you can. But as far as actual academic reputation here goes:

Luther
Cornell
Coe/Simpson
Central/Wartburg/Loras
BV
UD

Nothing can change my mind on that. The lower ranking schools, while not bad schools, I KNOW make the exceptions when they need to for a great athlete. Some schools will NEVER enroll a 15 ACT, some will. I don't have time to look it up, but as of 2 years ago, I now the top 4 had fewer than 1% enrolled below a 18 ACT. The others couldn't say that. Period. In my experience, the top 3 won't make the exceptions like the others. Central is a tough one for me, they could possibly tie with Coe/Simpson.

I will give credit to the minority argument, in that UD and Wartburg have lead the way enrolling a diverse student body.  

[Walston Hoover]

I think that sounds fair. I don't think I would bump Central up based on some things I know. I may put Cornell ahead of Luther as well. This is purely reputation and may not be accurate. I would like to see grad school placements as well.

[Alfredeneumann]

Wartburg photos from yesterdays practice are posted @
http://www.go-knights.net/photos/FBpractice81607/index.html

Six photos included.

As for rankings I would say they are about right. - We've spent 3+ yrs looking @ colleges for 2 kids.