FB: American Rivers Conference

[digger]

I only live a few miles from (B. V.) Storm Lake  I think it has alot to do with the condition of the town. 

[Walston Hoover]

Digger-
You said you lived real close to Ankeny, now you say you live a couple miles from Storm Lake. Which is it? They are not close to each other.

[sc_stormchaser]

I grew up a few miles from Storm Lake and the town has certainly changed for the worse. But BV had some pretty big classes just 4 or 5 years back. Storm Lake hasn't changed that much in the past 5 years (it has stayed consistently poor). There has to be something else other then blaming the low numbers on the town. Another excuse has been the location of the town (middle of NW Iowa) with no cities close. But many other schools have succeeded without being close to major cities.

As far as football, I think Morningside has had more to do with it than people think. Remember, Morningside was DII just a few years back. They weren't going after the same guys as BV and now they are. Also, Briar Cliff started a football program a few years back and they have to contend with them. Throwing a $1000 "Football Scholarship" on an award package makes the kid think that the program is "big time." For the most part, the rest of the conference is mainly recruiting against other conference teams. They don't have to deal with a ton of students that say, "I'm going to Morningside on a football scholarship." What a joke, but it's a fact.

[DutchFan2004]

I have no idea what it costs at Morningside, Northwestern, or Waldorf, but they are all private colleges so I would think that they are comparable in cost to the IIAC.  Even with an athletic scholarship I don't think they are that far off the finacial aid packages offered by the IIAC schools.  The declining enrollment of the student body IMHO isn't because the football team isn't playing well.  Something is wrong with the product offered.  Maybe not the right majors or something academic.  Could be the social life.  One thing that I have noticed from having two kids at two different IIAC schools is that both schools preach a family atmosphere.  My son that went to Wartburg still has ties with a classmate and they play tennis in a league in Des Moines.  The bonding that goes on at these schools is truly what makes these schools special.  I don't know any student looking at a school that is not involved with the football program asking hey how is the football team are they winning.  Then the student says on wow they are losers I will cross them off my list.  The tennis players, soccer players, track and cross country runners, swimmers, bball players, wrestlers, volleyball players (thats for you Walston) don't ask if the football team is successful they want the major and how is the sport they are in doing.  There must be a reason more than how the football team is doing if the student body is shrinking.  

[Floyd in Iowa City]

I know B.V. has always been located relatively far away from the rest of the IIAC.  Could the problem be that with the addition of more NAIA programs (Morningside dropped from Division II, Briar Cliff picked up football, Waldorf went from JUCO to NAIA) that local kids are selecting an NAIA program because they and their parents perceive that the opponents on the schedule are more familiar or at least more local?  I know that is a big selling point for many that grew up in NE Iowa that the IIAC had members schools in places like Decorah, Waverly, Dubuque (2), Cedar Rapids, Mount Vernon, and formerly Fayette.

To make a point on the other side of this though, Northwestern has had good football for a long time.  Morningside is finding more success some years than they used to have, but I always thought they had their niche when they were Division II (scholarships) and playing in the very tough North Central Conference.  They weren't near as competitive in football as they usually were in baseball or basketball, but they could tell kids that they were an NCC school.  Although I guess the last good Morningside football season in the NCC saw the victories become forfeits in the mid-1990s because the star tailback played every game and dominated while being ineligible because of grades.

Saying you are in the NCC did much more for me than the Northern Sun.  I guess now that Mankato, Duluth, and St. Cloud are joining the Northern Sun next year, Upper Iowa's schedule just got much tougher.

[digger]

W. H.  Ilive in the middle.  Both are alot closer than Dubuque where i go every weekend. I also have a lake home fairly close to Storm Lake. When Loras plays B.V.  (in storm lake) its like close to home for me.

[Floyd in Iowa City]

As far as football, I think Morningside has had more to do with it than people think. Remember, Morningside was DII just a few years back. Throwing a $1000 "Football Scholarship" on an award package makes the kid think that the program is "big time." For the most part, the rest of the conference is mainly recruiting against other conference teams. They don't have to deal with a ton of students that say, "I'm going to Morningside on a football scholarship." What a joke, but it's a fact.

Good point Stormchaser.

[Alfredeneumann]

BV -Storm Lake is about as far out into NW Ia. as Decorah-LC is in NE Ia.
It's about 1.5hr to Sioux City from Storm Lake.
It's about that same 1.5hr to Rochester MN or La Crosse Wi from Luther. Granted either of the 2 cities from Luther are more appealing than Sioux City. So community the college is located in has to play a part in what a would-be student is looking at.

[warthog]

I'm glad the conversation has moved away from the "big" game in Waverly between Wartburg and Central.  There is a whole lot of football to be played between now and mid-November.  It may be OK for the fans to plan their weekends far in advance, but if the Knights or Dutch do so they may find themselves limping into that last game with a couple losses.

I for one worry about the Spartan/Knight clash.  There is something going on in Dubuque.  The Spartans are tired of having been kicked around for 20 some years and the new generation is looking to rectify that situation.

[Walston Hoover]

Anyone who has seen the Spartans play:
Does Jackson get most of his yards by scrambling or are they designed run plays?

[digger]

I have not seen them play..  but they sure have some very athletic kids on the team.

[doolittledog]

Anyone who has seen the Spartans play:
Does Jackson get most of his yards by scrambling or are they designed run plays?

I haven't watched any games this year but from listening to the games they are designed run plays.  He used to have to run for his life but the o-line has become pretty decent.  Dubuque's two rb's are looking good as well.  Primm and Clayton.  Another thing to think about is the Dubuque Defense.  Shut out Rockford.  The 3 points they gave up to Wisconsin Lutheran were after a Dubuque fumble.  Of the 20 they gave up to Simpson they gave up 3 after a Dubuque fumble and the offense gave up a pick 6.  Both teams this weekend have good offenses and defenses.  I think one of the big keys is if Dubuque can keep away from lots and lots of penalties.  If they can play mistake free, I think they win this weekend.  If they give up a lot of penalties and turnovers and Wartburg is opportunisic I think the Knights could run up the score. 

[Floyd in Iowa City]

A link to the 2006 Dubuque-Wartburg overtime game:

http://www.iowaconference.com/TASFBC/2006-FB/HTML/dbqwar.htm

The Knights on paper did a very good job on Belleus (unlike the Norse), but I was surprised/had forgotten that the first downs (20 to 10) and total yardage were so heavily tilted towards the Spartans (360 to 188).  The Spartans of course were minus-2 in the turnover game, but only had 3 penalties for 15 yards.

It appears as if the Wartburg Offense was effective running the ball but could not get key 3rd down pass completions, as they were only 6-15 for 37 yards.  However, the Spartans no longer have Belleus on defense, Wartburg has been getting much better play from the QB position, and the TE could give the Spartans fits as well.  VanRees and Suckow will have to step up and produce on the ground the way that Dan Hammes (26 carries for 157 yards) did last year.  My last observation of the Dubuque Defense (Luther-Dubuque last year) was that it made a lot of sense to run between the tackles as much as possible.

Clayton and Jackson combined for 282 rushing yards last year for the Spartans.

Wartburg also beat B.V. in overtime last year near the end of the season (the outcome was much different in Waverly this year), so clearly last year means very little about what will happen on Saturday even though lots of guys return for both teams. 

[dbljay21]

Thanks for bringing up those horrible memories from last year Floyd... That guy absolutely destroyed the Norse

I think you're right about attacking the Spartans between the tackles.  They have some very good athletes and some speed but seem to be lacking some strength up the gut.  I think Wartburg would do well to pound the rock between the tackles.  It would allow them to do two key things: 1. Keep the explosive Dubuque offense off of the field and 2. open up opportunities to the get the ball to the TE with the play-action pass.

The more and more I think about this game and the more I hear about, the more excited I get...should be a great game between the Knights and the Spartans 

[Purple Heys]

...The declining enrollment of the student body IMHO isn't because the football team isn't playing well.  Something is wrong with the product offered.  Maybe not the right majors or something academic.  Could be the social life...

DF2k4... You are on the right track here...its not necessarily because the team is playing well or not.  However there can be shown a correlation between the quality, or maybe popularity, of the football and enrollment applications by male students.

Its economics and the plight of the small liberal arts college.  To generalize, the liberal arts curriculum is not particularly appealing to the young male.  Most small colleges have more females than males...its a pretty safe guesstimate that colleges without football will have a higher female to male ratio.

There was a case study about Shenandoah College which recently added football.  By adding football they increased male enrollment by 39% percent, I believe.  This made the adminstration of that school very happy about their decision.

within that study it was noted that over 50% of HS say they woulod like to continue to play football in college...yet only 5-10% actually do.  Small colleges are looking at that gap as a source of increasing male enrollment.

It gets down to following the money.  100 males students, who most likely not have played at the college, on a football team where the tuition is 25,000.  That's $2.5M in tuition fees.  A school probably gets real used to budgeting in that kind of take.  If the football coach doesn't recruit, is a poor performer, doesn't deliver a quality experience, whatever...those kids will find some place else that satisfies their requirements.  The admin could very well drop the hint to the coach to step it up or make tracks.

In the instance of Cornell...the record hasn't changed but the morale is up, the quality of the coaching and training has improved, the facilities are upgraded, and they play a competitive schedule.  This adds up to more players on the roster with the outlook bright to continue the growth pattern.

Regardless of the W-L record, Dillon is already successful.  In the spot that counts, the bottom line, Cornell adminstration being very pleased with the performance of their coach.