FB: American Rivers Conference

[doolittledog]

Talent is talent.  Everyone is exactally right.  Being that there is moe talent in CA, FL, and TX coaches will gravitate towards those regions. 

One thing to consider is that if you have to come all the way from CA to play D3 football in Iowa, how good are you to begin with.  Now please do not start throwing out names of conference MVP's of the past 15 years who didnt come from close to IA.  I know there are a few.  My point is I played on team that had 55 guys from 1000 miles away or more.  These guys were from AZ, CA, FL, and TX.  When you mixed there personalities with 55 guys from SD, MN, IA, and WI things did not go well.  There was a lack of appreciation for these players because they brought something to the table that was not football related.  They were thugs, poor grades, just there because it was there last hope. 

Let me get back on the NSIC for a second.  Take a look at Bemidji State and Winnona State.  You will see those rosters are flooded with MN and WI kids.  Take a look at SMSU.  Flooded with southern kids.  Whos winning and who isnt. 

Talen is talent and franky there is more talent down there.  The facts are after all of the d1,d1aa,and d2 teams get done picking at that talent.  Who is left?

Klop, you are painting with a pretty broad brush there.  Being from Cali doesn't mean you are a thug and being from the midwest doesn't turn you into Beaver Cleaver.  What is trying to be said here is you can look for talent everywhere...Iowa or out on the coast.  What you need to do is be a little selective.  Where that might come into play is developing good contacts with local coaches so you can find the right kind of kid. 

For too long Dubuque brought in those thugs you are talking about and they didn't fit in and they were soon gone from campus.  Thus, giving rise to the Dubuque has good atheletes but no dicipline tag.  The football player is a football player can only go so far.  You need to find out if he will fit your program.  As soon as Dubuque started finding some players that liked living in Dubuque and stuck around for their senior season you started finding Dubuque winning games on a consistant basis.  It takes more than just bringing in kids from out there to fill out your roster.  You need to find out a bit more about the kid.  Having a relationship with the local coaches will help you out. 

As far as travelling fans as I've said before I am out of the loop there.  From my time in school which was the late '80's to early '90's no school other than Central brought more than a few dozen fans with them.  Even the few away games we went to didn't have huge home support.  That all has seemed to change in the last 15 years or so.  It looks like a lot of the schools get more home and away support.  Something I am glad to see. 

[dbljay21]

Lots of action on the board last night, so I guess I should throw my two cents in...

In my experience, JV football was and is a great thing.  I was a JV player and, for me, it was a chance to play every week.  And that was great for me.  I didn't have the talent to play on Saturdays and I understood that, so I was happy to play.  I also coached JV while at Luther and there were guys that were in the same boat that I was in as a player.  Good kids that wanted to continue their careers, but weren't good enough to play on Saturdays.  And we took JV games seriously...we wanted to win every game we played.  And our players benefited from the playing experience.  Some of the guys playing at Luther now as seniors played JV as freshman.

As far as recruiting goes in the IIAC, I firmly believe that you need to have success recruiting in-state kids and kids from neighboring states like MN, WI and IL.  You ABSOLUTELY cannot let top D-III talent leave the region if you want to have success.  Look at the state of FL at the D-I level...the top schools like Florida, FSU, Miami and USF do NOT let the talent leave the state.  There aren't many schools in our region that can boast a high retention rate of players from states like CA or FL.  I think that there is just too big a difference between the areas.  How do you "sell" Iowa to a kid that is used to sunshine and beaches? I do recall St. Olaf and Dubuque having a few guys from FL on their rosters when I was at Luther, but I don't recall many other schools having any.  For IIAC schools, the most important thing you can do to have success is keep the talent in-state.  Then, the battle becomes selling your school over your rivals...and that is when the fun begins  

[dbljay21]

Congrats to Tyler Sherden on IIAC Player of the Week.  Very impressive performance.  Hopefully the Norse can keep this momentum rolling against Waldorf this weekend and get above 500 

[dbljay21]

Klop, you are painting with a pretty broad brush there.  Being from Cali doesn't mean you are a thug and being from the midwest doesn't turn you into Beaver Cleaver.  What is trying to be said here is you can look for talent everywhere...Iowa or out on the coast.  What you need to do is be a little selective.  Where that might come into play is developing good contacts with local coaches so you can find the right kind of kid. 

For too long Dubuque brought in those thugs you are talking about and they didn't fit in and they were soon gone from campus.  Thus, giving rise to the Dubuque has good atheletes but no dicipline tag.  The football player is a football player can only go so far.  You need to find out if he will fit your program.  As soon as Dubuque started finding some players that liked living in Dubuque and stuck around for their senior season you started finding Dubuque winning games on a consistant basis.  It takes more than just bringing in kids from out there to fill out your roster.  You need to find out a bit more about the kid.  Having a relationship with the local coaches will help you out. 

Well said doolittle...+k to you

[keith45]

Talent is talent.  Everyone is exactally right.  Being that there is moe talent in CA, FL, and TX coaches will gravitate towards those regions. 

One thing to consider is that if you have to come all the way from CA to play D3 football in Iowa, how good are you to begin with.  Now please do not start throwing out names of conference MVP's of the past 15 years who didnt come from close to IA.  I know there are a few.  My point is I played on team that had 55 guys from 1000 miles away or more.  These guys were from AZ, CA, FL, and TX.  When you mixed there personalities with 55 guys from SD, MN, IA, and WI things did not go well.  There was a lack of appreciation for these players because they brought something to the table that was not football related.  They were thugs, poor grades, just there because it was there last hope. 

Let me get back on the NSIC for a second.  Take a look at Bemidji State and Winnona State.  You will see those rosters are flooded with MN and WI kids.  Take a look at SMSU.  Flooded with southern kids.  Whos winning and who isnt. 

Talen is talent and franky there is more talent down there.  The facts are after all of the d1,d1aa,and d2 teams get done picking at that talent.  Who is left?

Klop, you are painting with a pretty broad brush there.  Being from Cali doesn't mean you are a thug and being from the midwest doesn't turn you into Beaver Cleaver.  What is trying to be said here is you can look for talent everywhere...Iowa or out on the coast.  What you need to do is be a little selective.  Where that might come into play is developing good contacts with local coaches so you can find the right kind of kid. 

For too long Dubuque brought in those thugs you are talking about and they didn't fit in and they were soon gone from campus.  Thus, giving rise to the Dubuque has good atheletes but no dicipline tag.  The football player is a football player can only go so far.  You need to find out if he will fit your program.  As soon as Dubuque started finding some players that liked living in Dubuque and stuck around for their senior season you started finding Dubuque winning games on a consistant basis.  It takes more than just bringing in kids from out there to fill out your roster.  You need to find out a bit more about the kid.  Having a relationship with the local coaches will help you out. 

As far as travelling fans as I've said before I am out of the loop there.  From my time in school which was the late '80's to early '90's no school other than Central brought more than a few dozen fans with them.  Even the few away games we went to didn't have huge home support.  That all has seemed to change in the last 15 years or so.  It looks like a lot of the schools get more home and away support.  Something I am glad to see. 

Being a UD alum and former athlete there (and coming from Washington, DC to UD), I hesitate to say that UD brought in "thugs"...when I hear "thugs", I'm not sure what you are implying? Kids from out of state who had academic troubles, or even legal troubles, and left?? Hell, I know more of them from Iowa, Illinois and Wisconsin that had those issues, then from out of state...for years, "thugs" was associated with african american student athletes, when discussing UD...so for the record, I'm asking for clarification.
Thanks!

[Walston Hoover]

If you are suggesting that a component of recruiting is that the local player will put an extra fan or three in the seats...and help create an advantage...I'm not buying that.  With VERY rare exceptions, D3 football teams don't have a significant travelling fan base.  With your average D3 team, you're lucky to get friends and family and a few curious locals in most cases to home games.  What puts butts in the seats is a winning team...because that helps draw the student fan base to the home games...and small towns take pride and come out for a winner.  I'm willing to bet a twelve pack that, on average, the bigger crowds are at the home games of Central and Wartburg...and sadly, the smallest crowds are at Cornell.

From the recruiting a player standpoint whether the player is from down the block or across the country he is still paying his way at that school.  He is the revenue generating component for that school...not the extra fan buying a $4 ticket and spending $8 at the snack bar.  A coach wants to win, his job more or less depends on it.  He's not looking at how many fans the kid brings with him...he's looking at a football player.

Those local kids do bring fans in. We had New Hampton Day with Wartburg football and there would be a busload of kids there to watch. I would always get emails from people throughout the week that said they were going to come up to games on Saturday from Aplington 30 minutes away. We had kids from Fredricksburg that had tons of fans with them, Cedar Falls, Tripoli, Denver, West Delaware, and many other local schools. There were always big groups of people talking to these guys after the games and they weren't all family. As much as winning helps at the Wartburg's and Centrals, I would venture to guess at least a third, if not a half of the crowd there is from close by towns watching their hometown boys play.
Of course part of that is due to the nature of small-town people as well.

[MNbeev]

short career MNBeev? only one hit?

Yes Dutchfan my JV career was short.  Thanks you for noticing Soph year, first game, first kick off, first hit, and never looked back.  I had a very successful rest of my sophomore year on the varsity.  And after those years, I continued to have successful varsity careers.  If it wasn't for major injuries and sugery, I believe they could have been better.

[Ash Park]

Part of the reason those Florida kids are starting to stick around now at UD is because there is so many of them they can relate to. It started with a small group of them liking it where they were. Now you have 85% of their roster from Florida.(not sure if that is right) Part of it and yes this is reality is that most of those kids came from somewhat troubled areas or were "thugs", but now they have an outlet in Iowa to get away from all that. All these guys now are telling their friends or family about how they can come up to UD in Iowa and play football, get an education and get away from the trouble back home. Many former players at UD have stuck around the Dubuque area. I mostly know all of this because I have a friend who was a GA there.

[doolittledog]

Talent is talent.  Everyone is exactally right.  Being that there is moe talent in CA, FL, and TX coaches will gravitate towards those regions. 

One thing to consider is that if you have to come all the way from CA to play D3 football in Iowa, how good are you to begin with.  Now please do not start throwing out names of conference MVP's of the past 15 years who didnt come from close to IA.  I know there are a few.  My point is I played on team that had 55 guys from 1000 miles away or more.  These guys were from AZ, CA, FL, and TX.  When you mixed there personalities with 55 guys from SD, MN, IA, and WI things did not go well.  There was a lack of appreciation for these players because they brought something to the table that was not football related.  They were thugs, poor grades, just there because it was there last hope. 

Let me get back on the NSIC for a second.  Take a look at Bemidji State and Winnona State.  You will see those rosters are flooded with MN and WI kids.  Take a look at SMSU.  Flooded with southern kids.  Whos winning and who isnt. 

Talen is talent and franky there is more talent down there.  The facts are after all of the d1,d1aa,and d2 teams get done picking at that talent.  Who is left?

Klop, you are painting with a pretty broad brush there.  Being from Cali doesn't mean you are a thug and being from the midwest doesn't turn you into Beaver Cleaver.  What is trying to be said here is you can look for talent everywhere...Iowa or out on the coast.  What you need to do is be a little selective.  Where that might come into play is developing good contacts with local coaches so you can find the right kind of kid. 

For too long Dubuque brought in those thugs you are talking about and they didn't fit in and they were soon gone from campus.  Thus, giving rise to the Dubuque has good atheletes but no dicipline tag.  The football player is a football player can only go so far.  You need to find out if he will fit your program.  As soon as Dubuque started finding some players that liked living in Dubuque and stuck around for their senior season you started finding Dubuque winning games on a consistant basis.  It takes more than just bringing in kids from out there to fill out your roster.  You need to find out a bit more about the kid.  Having a relationship with the local coaches will help you out. 

As far as travelling fans as I've said before I am out of the loop there.  From my time in school which was the late '80's to early '90's no school other than Central brought more than a few dozen fans with them.  Even the few away games we went to didn't have huge home support.  That all has seemed to change in the last 15 years or so.  It looks like a lot of the schools get more home and away support.  Something I am glad to see. 

Being a UD alum and former athlete there (and coming from Washington, DC to UD), I hesitate to say that UD brought in "thugs"...when I hear "thugs", I'm not sure what you are implying? Kids from out of state who had academic troubles, or even legal troubles, and left?? Hell, I know more of them from Iowa, Illinois and Wisconsin that had those issues, then from out of state...for years, "thugs" was associated with african american student athletes, when discussing UD...so for the record, I'm asking for clarification.
Thanks!

I know what you are saying and I have often thought that was being implied on this board when UD was mentioned as having good athletes with poor dicipline was they were refering to UD having more african-americans than other IIAC schools.  I wasn't trying to imply that.  There was a time in the late '80's when the football team brought in anybody that would show up on campus from California and there was a strong gang element that was there for a short period of time.  There was a bit of the thug mentality among them.  Now, at the same time the Dubuque basketball team would have about 1/3 from New Orleans, 1/3 from the Chicago area and maybe 1/3 from Iowa and other surrounding states.  The basketball team had a higher percentage of african-americans than the football team but didn't have the thug mentality the football team at that time had because the basketball staff had good relationships with area high school coaches where they recruited and were able to pick players that liked being in Dubuque and they stayed around for 4 years.  Something we didn't have happening with the football team at the time.  Likewise I believe the basketball team had about a 6 year period where they finished either 1st or 2nd every year.  They did that with having veteran teams.  It didn't matter where the players were from or the color of their skin, the coaches were able to recruit the type of player that liked Dubuque and stuck around.  Hope that makes a bit of sense, I don't always get across on here what I mean. 

[Alfredeneumann]

89.1
Weren't you JV all- conference for 4 yrs?

See you Friday @ 9:30. Bring your A game.

[CollegeFootballFan]

Looking at the Cornell situation remote, the cold facts associate with the statistics and game summaries are the results. My only view is the results. Thus I asked the questions.  Therefore, the feedback based on actual exposure helps. Based on the results, things don't look good for the team. Earlier in the year there was a lot of talk about the freshman class.

Based on the feedback, the freshman class is getting playing time and may have not made the impact I expected based on the earlier post. Now, is it time for the team should invest more into the new players since the team is out of post season consideration. If a young player with potential hasn't been given enough time to get use to the college level football, I believe they should be given an opportunity to prove their value. I hear it a lot that freshman are not ready to play but I see freshman playing on Saturday's. I hear the feedback but I'm not convinced. I cannot believe none of the freshman can play at this level now. Some are bigger, faster, stronger and quicker coming out of high school. I know that's a fact. Therefore, when it's decided to move forward with experienced players that you know haven't beat the competition in the past, you've made a decision that carries a risk too. That's a coach's decision. Some small changes might make a big difference, give it a chance.

I also felt this team is on the bubble for quitting for the year since things started rolling down hill with the Luther game. Therefore, I hope my previous post provides some motivation. It's good to be positive; sometimes you have to face the truth to get better. Small improvements are goods sign but doesn't lower the expectations. It's American where winning is important. Don't accept losing, which will make it very difficult on the team mentally. Don't accept close loses, make the adjustments and win the close games.

I do not know who should be playing. I do know the team is not meeting expectations based on the pre-season hype.

I do know some kids are looking at the program because playing on a top conference team is not the top priority. It would help Cornell to show hope for high school seniors mature enough to select a school for reasons other than the win/loss record.

I believe this team can still win. I'm pulling for the underdog too.

[Floyd in Iowa City]

If you are suggesting that a component of recruiting is that the local player will put an extra fan or three in the seats...and help create an advantage...I'm not buying that.  With VERY rare exceptions, D3 football teams don't have a significant travelling fan base.  With your average D3 team, you're lucky to get friends and family and a few curious locals in most cases to home games.  What puts butts in the seats is a winning team...because that helps draw the student fan base to the home games...and small towns take pride and come out for a winner.  I'm willing to bet a twelve pack that, on average, the bigger crowds are at the home games of Central and Wartburg...and sadly, the smallest crowds are at Cornell.

Those local kids do bring fans in. We had New Hampton Day with Wartburg football and there would be a busload of kids there to watch. I would always get emails from people throughout the week that said they were going to come up to games on Saturday from Aplington 30 minutes away. We had kids from Fredricksburg that had tons of fans with them, Cedar Falls, Tripoli, Denver, West Delaware, and many other local schools. There were always big groups of people talking to these guys after the games and they weren't all family. As much as winning helps at the Wartburg's and Centrals, I would venture to guess at least a third, if not a half of the crowd there is from close by towns watching their hometown boys play.
Of course part of that is due to the nature of small-town people as well.

Speaking of fans, FWIW here are the Luther attendance and other numbers so far:

@ St. Olaf 3,819 - It was easy that day to see that it was 40% to 50% Norse fans since we all pretty much were in the same bleachers.  Lots of Luther alums turn out for this game since it is in the Cities.
@ Central 2,000
Wartburg 6,604
@ Cornell 650
Loras 1,267
B.V. 4,965 - Homecoming

Wartburg is averaging 3,283 fans per game (all games, not just home games).
Luther is averaging 3,218.
B.V. is averaging 3,160.
Central is averaging 2,931.
Coe is averaging 2,689.
Simpson is averaging 2,423.
Dubuque is averaging 1,944.
Cornell is averaging 1,200.
Loras is averaging 1,181.

[Floyd in Iowa City]

Has Coe increased the seating capacity for fans of BOTH teams since the football field improvements were completed?  That has always been my least favorite venue in the Iowa Conference to watch a game since most of the opposing fans were always left with a poor view while the home grandstand has always been too small to accommodate visiting fans.  Upper Iowa's visiting section used to compete with Coe for being on the lacking side of things.

[dbljay21]

Speaking of fans, FWIW here are the Luther attendance and other numbers so far:

@ St. Olaf 3,819 - It was easy that day to see that it was 40% to 50% Norse fans since we all pretty much were in the same bleachers.  Lots of Luther alums turn out for this game since it is in the Cities.
@ Central 2,000
Wartburg 6,604
@ Cornell 650
Loras 1,267
B.V. 4,965 - Homecoming

Wartburg is averaging 3,283 fans per game.
Luther is averaging 3,218.
B.V. is averaging 3,160.
Central is averaging 2,931.
Coe is averaging 2,689.
Simpson is averaging 2,423.
Dubuque is averaging 1,944.
Cornell is averaging 1,200.
Loras is averaging 1,181.

Thanks for the numbers Floyd...I am surprised that Central isn't averaging more fans per game than BV.  How does that happen 

and some +K, you know, for the effort 

[doolittledog]

Thanks for the numbers Floyd...I am surprised that Central isn't averaging more fans per game than BV.  How does that happen 

and some +K, you know, for the effort 
[/quote]

It would be interesting to see just how accurate those attendance numbers really are.

So I ask dbljay21 for some +K, you know, for the effort, and he replies, "Oh, uh, there won't be any +K, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.