FB: American Rivers Conference

[doolittledog]

To be fair to Coe, over the last 4 seasons they have two shared conference titles and two 3rd place finishes.  Those aren't bad stats.  

Over the last 5 seasons Central has 3 titles, Wartburg and Coe each have 2 titles.  

[Walston Hoover]

OK, so I've been gone a few days, but this conspiracy theory stuff about Wartburg taking their roster down after the season is something completely made up by someone trying to discredit what Koehler and boys have done and are trying to do.
Facts are Wartburg had 143 guys on the team this year and the roster, like it has every year since at least 1999 (when we had somewhere around 100 players), was taken down immediately after the season. Its all about looking toward the future and at the end of the year, the roster isn't accurate anyway.
If Koehler was trying to hide something, the coaches on the recruiting trail wouldn't be giving a program to all the kids they approach. If a kid has a question about who or how many kids WERE on the roster the last year, its right in front of him.
Its been said time and time again on here, and look at the successful programs in D3, the formula for success is numbers.
I know every kid that comes to camp at Wartburg now is given the opportunity to win a spot, and no one is guaranteed anything, whether the kid be new or a 3 time returning starter.
I personally was from a great HS program and had to put my time in there just to be all-district my senior year. I was fully expecting and prepared to wait 3 years to play at Wartburg, fortunately, or unfortunately for some guys, there were some injuries and I was able to beat out some guys and only wait 1 year. That almost backfired on me my senior year when a very talented freshman came in that pushed me for playing time, but it sure made me a lot better and more focused player that year.
How long does the bit about "being the class that turns it around" work? 3, 4 years for a coach? I can't imagine any longer than that. At some point kids are going to realize its a mediocre program and mediocre players are playing there.
Me personally, I'd rather play for a proven winner. I always have, and always plan to coach a winner. I was brought up being taught to be the best and if you weren't, you better put the necessary things in place to at least be in a position to be the best.
Shouldn't be any surprise to anyone that Wartburg and Central were my final 2 choices, and I almost became a Dutchman, but something about Wartburg felt right. I will always be happy with my decision (2 conference titles, winning record against every team in the conference except .500 against Coe, and graduated as the winningest football class in school history (at the time)).
If I were an elite D3-type student-athlete right now, I think those would still be the only places I looked, although I might actually listen to a Coe coach (as much as I don't like Coe, I have to respect them for what Raeburn has accomplished the last 7 years).

[DutchFan2004]

This may not sound right or politically correct but here goes.  If a kid is picking a school at the D3 level and considering PT as the major concern something is wrong.  I think PH said it best about PH jr that the teaching style suited his learning style and the PT was a bonus.  There are few kids coming out of HS that will get PT at the college level at any level unless the program is a shambles.  I have to ask (this is the objectionable part) if a kid thinks he can not earn a spot at a school any school Wartburg, Central, Coe, UD (the top schools this year) does that school want him?  I think football takes a passion to be a player.  The one thing that I have taken from the Dutch (and it goes back to Coach Schipper I am told) is the saying play with passion.  If you don't love the game you will not succeed.  If you do not give 100% all the time you will not succeed.  So if you are choosing a school that will not drive you to that passion or giving the 100% all the time will that be a successful program.  To me it seems like there are some that like being a big fish in a small pond.  I think you need to be the shark and attack it all.  If your goal is PT then maybe you are not the player you thought you were.  If your goal is to be the best FB player on the field at your position I think you can play at any school.  Attitudes like that are not in every player.  Even at the D1 levels players that get the scholarships don't give their all and do not get PT because they don't have the passion.  Maybe they had the God given talents to succeed in HS but at the next level where ever it may be talent will not carry the day if you do not have the passion for the game.  Boil this down, there are many players that come out of HS that are good players on their team but are not good players for the next level.  I think Walston will attest to this there is no substitute for hard work, sweat, and blood that you leave on the practice field. 

[Willie University]

Haven't been reading much lately so not sure if this was already posted but congrats to Jermar Jackson being named MVP of the Aztec Bowl.

"A four-year standout for the Spartans capped off his senior year by
engineering a 37-19 victory in the 2007 Aztec Bowl. Jackson was just the
second Spartan to be selected to the bowl, joining Walner Belleus who
played in 2006. Jackson made the most of his appearance and helped Team
USA to two scores. He finished the day with 42 yards rushing and 78
yards passing to earn the first MVP honors for the University of
Dubuque. He tied the Aztec Bowl record with two touchdown passes in the
contest. He joins a select group of quality Iowa Conference football
players to earn Aztec Bowl MVP honors including: Coe College's Fred
Jackson (2002), Buena Vista's Carlos Martinez (2001) and Buena Vista's
Ben Smith (1999). "

Also, congrats to Freddie Jackson on his recent success. I was about 2 hours too late in picking him up as a free agent in fantasy football!!

Willie U

[DutchFan2004]

Walston,

May be the conspiracy thing is because of the Evil Empire thing you guys have going   

[BeaverOfYore]

OK, so I've been gone a few days, but this conspiracy theory stuff about Wartburg taking their roster down after the season is something completely made up by someone trying to discredit what Koehler and boys have done and are trying to do.
Facts are Wartburg had 143 guys on the team this year and the roster, like it has every year since at least 1999 (when we had somewhere around 100 players), was taken down immediately after the season. Its all about looking toward the future and at the end of the year, the roster isn't accurate anyway.
If Koehler was trying to hide something, the coaches on the recruiting trail wouldn't be giving a program to all the kids they approach. If a kid has a question about who or how many kids WERE on the roster the last year, its right in front of him.
Its been said time and time again on here, and look at the successful programs in D3, the formula for success is numbers.
I know every kid that comes to camp at Wartburg now is given the opportunity to win a spot, and no one is guaranteed anything, whether the kid be new or a 3 time returning starter.
I personally was from a great HS program and had to put my time in there just to be all-district my senior year. I was fully expecting and prepared to wait 3 years to play at Wartburg, fortunately, or unfortunately for some guys, there were some injuries and I was able to beat out some guys and only wait 1 year. That almost backfired on me my senior year when a very talented freshman came in that pushed me for playing time, but it sure made me a lot better and more focused player that year.
How long does the bit about "being the class that turns it around" work? 3, 4 years for a coach? I can't imagine any longer than that. At some point kids are going to realize its a mediocre program and mediocre players are playing there.
Me personally, I'd rather play for a proven winner. I always have, and always plan to coach a winner. I was brought up being taught to be the best and if you weren't, you better put the necessary things in place to at least be in a position to be the best.
Shouldn't be any surprise to anyone that Wartburg and Central were my final 2 choices, and I almost became a Dutchman, but something about Wartburg felt right. I will always be happy with my decision (2 conference titles, winning record against every team in the conference except .500 against Coe, and graduated as the winningest football class in school history (at the time)).
If I were an elite D3-type student-athlete right now, I think those would still be the only places I looked, although I might actually listen to a Coe coach (as much as I don't like Coe, I have to respect them for what Raeburn has accomplished the last 7 years).

Thank you for reinforcing my point.  The "class that turns it around bit" obviously hasn't worked yet, so I'm sure that the coaches will continue using it until it does.  BV typically has a recruiting class of around 30 kids, and since numbers are the key to winning, how could we possibly be a conference contender with such low numbers?  BV came close to having that class in this year's seniors, but a few guys that would have made a big difference quit or transferred.  What else is a coach supposed to say?  "Hey kid, I see you're not good enough to go anywhere else, so come play for us," isn't something that will attract a lot of kids.  The best season in recent memory was '04, and we managed to piss a chance at the playoffs and a conference title down our leg.  Replace one guy on the o-line and I'm sure that season turns out differently.   

Expecting and wanting to win are not unique attributes.  Nobody goes to BV or Cornell because they want to lose.  As sportsknight said before, it's a difference in philosophy.  You think I'm stupid and a poor football player for going to BV.  I think you're arrogant and and gutless because you went somewhere you could win, regardless of whether you contributed on the field.   It sucked losing, but in the grand scheme of things it probably made me a better person for having to deal with disappointment instead of sheltering myself from losing by hiding out in the crowd at Wartburg or Central.   

[Floyd in Iowa City]

Congrats to Norse RB Tyler Sherden and Knight DB Nick Weber for being named 1st team all-American by the American Football Coaches Association!  Sherden made the team as an all-purpose player while Weber made it as a DB.

From the IIAC website:
http://www.iowaconference.com/news/2007-08/1213football_afca.htm

From the Luther website:
http://sports.luther.edu/men/football/season-2007/News/allamerican.html

[Dsquared]

OK, so I've been gone a few days, but this conspiracy theory stuff about Wartburg taking their roster down after the season is something completely made up by someone trying to discredit what Koehler and boys have done and are trying to do.
Facts are Wartburg had 143 guys on the team this year and the roster, like it has every year since at least 1999 (when we had somewhere around 100 players), was taken down immediately after the season. Its all about looking toward the future and at the end of the year, the roster isn't accurate anyway.
If Koehler was trying to hide something, the coaches on the recruiting trail wouldn't be giving a program to all the kids they approach. If a kid has a question about who or how many kids WERE on the roster the last year, its right in front of him.
Its been said time and time again on here, and look at the successful programs in D3, the formula for success is numbers.
I know every kid that comes to camp at Wartburg now is given the opportunity to win a spot, and no one is guaranteed anything, whether the kid be new or a 3 time returning starter.
I personally was from a great HS program and had to put my time in there just to be all-district my senior year. I was fully expecting and prepared to wait 3 years to play at Wartburg, fortunately, or unfortunately for some guys, there were some injuries and I was able to beat out some guys and only wait 1 year. That almost backfired on me my senior year when a very talented freshman came in that pushed me for playing time, but it sure made me a lot better and more focused player that year.
How long does the bit about "being the class that turns it around" work? 3, 4 years for a coach? I can't imagine any longer than that. At some point kids are going to realize its a mediocre program and mediocre players are playing there.
Me personally, I'd rather play for a proven winner. I always have, and always plan to coach a winner. I was brought up being taught to be the best and if you weren't, you better put the necessary things in place to at least be in a position to be the best.
Shouldn't be any surprise to anyone that Wartburg and Central were my final 2 choices, and I almost became a Dutchman, but something about Wartburg felt right. I will always be happy with my decision (2 conference titles, winning record against every team in the conference except .500 against Coe, and graduated as the winningest football class in school history (at the time)).
If I were an elite D3-type student-athlete right now, I think those would still be the only places I looked, although I might actually listen to a Coe coach (as much as I don't like Coe, I have to respect them for what Raeburn has accomplished the last 7 years).

Thank you for reinforcing my point.  The "class that turns it around bit" obviously hasn't worked yet, so I'm sure that the coaches will continue using it until it does.  BV typically has a recruiting class of around 30 kids, and since numbers are the key to winning, how could we possibly be a conference contender with such low numbers?  BV came close to having that class in this year's seniors, but a few guys that would have made a big difference quit or transferred.  What else is a coach supposed to say?  "Hey kid, I see you're not good enough to go anywhere else, so come play for us," isn't something that will attract a lot of kids.  The best season in recent memory was '04, and we managed to piss a chance at the playoffs and a conference title down our leg.  Replace one guy on the o-line and I'm sure that season turns out differently.   

Expecting and wanting to win are not unique attributes.  Nobody goes to BV or Cornell because they want to lose.  As sportsknight said before, it's a difference in philosophy.  You think I'm stupid and a poor football player for going to BV.  I think you're arrogant and and gutless because you went somewhere you could win, regardless of whether you contributed on the field.   It sucked losing, but in the grand scheme of things it probably made me a better person for having to deal with disappointment instead of sheltering myself from losing by hiding out in the crowd at Wartburg or Central.   

I don't think WH hid in the crowd at WB.  Every player on a successful team's roster has a say in what goes on during the season.  The practice squad guys have to hold their own SOMEWHAT to get the 1st and 2nd stringers ready for what lies ahead.  To say that going to WB or Central gives anyone the ability to hide in a crowd, you are being absolutely ridiculous.  It takes a special breed of person to want to go in and have the "target" inherited on their back.  It takes one type of person to go into a program being a missile seeking those targets... and maybe the thrill of a tight game or even an upset once in a while gives them hope.  It takes an entirely different breed to continue the legacy and knock those missiles out when they are coming from every direction.

As for Coe being a contender... they have every right to lay that claim... just as much as WB.  Before the late '90s, Central was it for IIAC football on a year-in year-out basis.  WB has established itself as being a dominant force in the conference for the last decade... and maybe the last 5 years have overshadowed how close of a competitor Coe really is. 

[DutchFan2004]

BOY,  I do not think anyone is a loser for choosing a school.  Every one has to choose a school right for him.  I think that the choice of the school has to be made for the future of their earning an living not football.  My point is that guys choosing a school being on a team and not seeing a lot of PT do not waste their time.  They may not get the PT but they do get a degree.  Your choice of BV was obviously right for you.  I think that that is the main thing.  If you had been part of the "class" that would have been a huge memory and a great experience.  (and a little stardom for you)  No one can blame you for trying to get your time in the spotlight.  Another point I was trying to make and maybe I didn't is that the players no matter what their choice is if you don't work hard and play with passion you will not be successful.  There are many good and great players that do not win the IIAC but IMO that is what makes this a good conference.  If all the good/great players go to one or two teams then the conference as a whole suffers IMO.  With 9 schools in the conference I think there is enough places in the IIAC for anyone that has a dream and can compete at the highest levels if they choose to.  

[Dsquared]

As for UD's cupboard being bare... weren't there the same concerns after Walner Belleus graduated?  I'm sure the same pipeline that has gotten amazing talent like Belleus and Jackson into UD will continue to pump talent into eastern Iowa (and yes... I know Walner was via UofI).  I think UD has built itself into at WORST a mid-tier IIAC team and I don't foresee them dropping back to the abyss that they were in not so long ago!

[BeaverOfYore]

BOY,  I do not think anyone is a loser for choosing a school.  Every one has to choose a school right for him.  I think that the choice of the school has to be made for the future of their earning an living not football.  My point is that guys choosing a school being on a team and not seeing a lot of PT do not waste their time.  They may not get the PT but they do get a degree.  Your choice of BV was obviously right for you.  I think that that is the main thing.  If you had been part of the "class" that would have been a huge memory and a great experience.  (and a little stardom for you)  No one can blame you for trying to get your time in the spotlight.  Another point I was trying to make and maybe I didn't is that the players no matter what their choice is if you don't work hard and play with passion you will not be successful.  There are many good and great players that do not win the IIAC but IMO that is what makes this a good conference.  If all the good/great players go to one or two teams then the conference as a whole suffers IMO.  With 9 schools in the conference I think there is enough places in the IIAC for anyone that has a dream and can compete at the highest levels if they choose to. 

I know where you're coming from, and I wasn't trying to suggest that WH hid in the crowd or that he actually is arrogant and gutless.  I was trying to demonstrate that people from varying perspectives usually have a negative view of the other guy and his motives.  It's the same way in politics, religion, or anything else.  The majority of the posters on this site are from WB and Central, and I'm just trying to help you guys understand the rationale behind what probably seems like a stupid decision to some people on this board.  That is all.

[DutchFan2004]

OK, so I've been gone a few days, but this conspiracy theory stuff about Wartburg taking their roster down after the season is something completely made up by someone trying to discredit what Koehler and boys have done and are trying to do.
Facts are Wartburg had 143 guys on the team this year and the roster, like it has every year since at least 1999 (when we had somewhere around 100 players), was taken down immediately after the season. Its all about looking toward the future and at the end of the year, the roster isn't accurate anyway.
If Koehler was trying to hide something, the coaches on the recruiting trail wouldn't be giving a program to all the kids they approach. If a kid has a question about who or how many kids WERE on the roster the last year, its right in front of him.
Its been said time and time again on here, and look at the successful programs in D3, the formula for success is numbers.
I know every kid that comes to camp at Wartburg now is given the opportunity to win a spot, and no one is guaranteed anything, whether the kid be new or a 3 time returning starter.
I personally was from a great HS program and had to put my time in there just to be all-district my senior year. I was fully expecting and prepared to wait 3 years to play at Wartburg, fortunately, or unfortunately for some guys, there were some injuries and I was able to beat out some guys and only wait 1 year. That almost backfired on me my senior year when a very talented freshman came in that pushed me for playing time, but it sure made me a lot better and more focused player that year.
How long does the bit about "being the class that turns it around" work? 3, 4 years for a coach? I can't imagine any longer than that. At some point kids are going to realize its a mediocre program and mediocre players are playing there.
Me personally, I'd rather play for a proven winner. I always have, and always plan to coach a winner. I was brought up being taught to be the best and if you weren't, you better put the necessary things in place to at least be in a position to be the best.
Shouldn't be any surprise to anyone that Wartburg and Central were my final 2 choices, and I almost became a Dutchman, but something about Wartburg felt right. I will always be happy with my decision (2 conference titles, winning record against every team in the conference except .500 against Coe, and graduated as the winningest football class in school history (at the time)).
If I were an elite D3-type student-athlete right now, I think those would still be the only places I looked, although I might actually listen to a Coe coach (as much as I don't like Coe, I have to respect them for what Raeburn has accomplished the last 7 years).

Thank you for reinforcing my point.  The "class that turns it around bit" obviously hasn't worked yet, so I'm sure that the coaches will continue using it until it does.  BV typically has a recruiting class of around 30 kids, and since numbers are the key to winning, how could we possibly be a conference contender with such low numbers?  BV came close to having that class in this year's seniors, but a few guys that would have made a big difference quit or transferred.  What else is a coach supposed to say?  "Hey kid, I see you're not good enough to go anywhere else, so come play for us," isn't something that will attract a lot of kids.  The best season in recent memory was '04, and we managed to piss a chance at the playoffs and a conference title down our leg.  Replace one guy on the o-line and I'm sure that season turns out differently.   

Expecting and wanting to win are not unique attributes.  Nobody goes to BV or Cornell because they want to lose.  As sportsknight said before, it's a difference in philosophy.  You think I'm stupid and a poor football player for going to BV.  I think you're arrogant and and gutless because you went somewhere you could win, regardless of whether you contributed on the field.   It sucked losing, but in the grand scheme of things it probably made me a better person for having to deal with disappointment instead of sheltering myself from losing by hiding out in the crowd at Wartburg or Central.   

I don't think WH hid in the crowd at WB.  Every player on a successful team's roster has a say in what goes on during the season.  The practice squad guys have to hold their own SOMEWHAT to get the 1st and 2nd stringers ready for what lies ahead.  To say that going to WB or Central gives anyone the ability to hide in a crowd, you are being absolutely ridiculous.  It takes a special breed of person to want to go in and have the "target" inherited on their back.  It takes one type of person to go into a program being a missile seeking those targets... and maybe the thrill of a tight game or even an upset once in a while gives them hope.  It takes an entirely different breed to continue the legacy and knock those missiles out when they are coming from every direction.

As for Coe being a contender... they have every right to lay that claim... just as much as WB.  Before the late '90s, Central was it for IIAC football on a year-in year-out basis.  WB has established itself as being a dominant force in the conference for the last decade... and maybe the last 5 years have overshadowed how close of a competitor Coe really is. 

Agree with most of this.  Dominant force in the last 5 years is up for grabs IMO.  Central has 3 IIAC crowns 2 outright 1 tie.  Wartburg has 2 1 outright 1 tie.  Coe has 2 none outright 2 ties.  In the last 10 there are Seven times Central has won 5 outright 2 ties.  Wartburg has 4 2 outright and 2 ties.  Coe has 3 none outright and 3 ties.  If you go back farther Central has some more and Simpson has couple with Wartburg having some.  Didn't take time to write the numbers down but don't want to get to ancient history.  IMO there is no dominant team.  There are teams that are competing for the IIAC crown and Wartburg, Central, and Coe are the three in that group.  You could make a case for UD competing this year but not as a rule.  May be I did't read the post the way you meant it but the results do not point out that Wartburg is a dominant team.

[DutchFan2004]

As for UD's cupboard being bare... weren't there the same concerns after Walner Belleus graduated?  I'm sure the same pipeline that has gotten amazing talent like Belleus and Jackson into UD will continue to pump talent into eastern Iowa (and yes... I know Walner was via UofI).  and was it Iowa Weslyan  I think UD has built itself into at WORST a mid-tier IIAC team and I don't foresee them dropping back to the abyss that they were in not so long ago!

[doolittledog]

As for UD's cupboard being bare... weren't there the same concerns after Walner Belleus graduated?  I'm sure the same pipeline that has gotten amazing talent like Belleus and Jackson into UD will continue to pump talent into eastern Iowa (and yes... I know Walner was via UofI).  I think UD has built itself into at WORST a mid-tier IIAC team and I don't foresee them dropping back to the abyss that they were in not so long ago!

Holy smokes...someone else thinks the same way I do regarding the Spartans 

Things can change, coaches leave or what not.  I think UD is in for a stretch where they might contend for a conference title every now and then and on their down years they fall within a game either way of .500  we will see but that's how I see it.  Remember, it's really the last 20 years that Dbq REALLY got bad.  If you take away the last 20 years and look at the conference at that time the Spartans had winning overall records against Wartburg, Simpson, Upper Iowa, William Penn, I think Loras and they weren't too far away from .500 against other teams...except Central 

Ok, getting off my UD soap box.  Just nice to see someone other than a Spartan fan taking a look at them and seeing the positive steps they are taking and not thinking it is just a fluke of having 1 great player there. 

[Walston Hoover]

I know where you're coming from, and I wasn't trying to suggest that WH hid in the crowd or that he actually is arrogant and gutless.  I was trying to demonstrate that people from varying perspectives usually have a negative view of the other guy and his motives.  It's the same way in politics, religion, or anything else.  The majority of the posters on this site are from WB and Central, and I'm just trying to help you guys understand the rationale behind what probably seems like a stupid decision to some people on this board.  That is all.

No one's ever accused me of hiding in a crowd. So that would be a first.
Arrogant? There may be some who I've come in contact with that would use that term. I prefer "confident."
Gutless? That depends on your definition. I can see how that could be yes and no. One of my biggest downfalls is my fear of failure, and that has, in some respects made me gutless. Going to a small college, only doing the things I was good at, a fear of approaching clients that may say no. That would all qualify me, and I've admitted to that before.
On the other hand, I also sing in front of large crowds, give presentations on a daily basis, give speeches, and married totally out of my league. I know there would be some people terrified of doing that.
I'll be the first to admit that I wasn't the top football player in the nation, the state, Wartburg, or even our OL, but part of having success is knowing what your downfalls are and sorrounding yourself with people that can pick up the slack.