FB: American Rivers Conference

[Purple Heys]

PH, That's great if what you say about your son is true, Supposedly, that's what D3 sports is about. If it were truly about that. Coaching wouldn't be a full-time job, and coaches wouldn't recruit. Players wouldn't spend up to 10 or 12 hours a week in offseason workouts, and the teams would be made up solely of guys that come to a school, coaches find out who is there, and make up a football team of those kids. In reality, that's not the way it happens.
The "elite" D3 type athlete is the one who is a .1 second slow, 20 pounds lite, or an inch too small to play D1. In Iowa, the elites play D1 as well, but after that, I'd say the top talent that goes to D3's each year is just as good or better than the top talent that goes D2 out of this state. Its that level that I speak of.

Frame of reference is important, my friend.

It seems that the JUCO system in CA serves a similar role as far as providing football outlet in CA for those that fall through the cracks as the IIAC does in Iowa.  No disrespect intended to Iowa or the IIAC.  I love watching IIAC football.

The SCIAC does not serve this role in SoCal, let alone the whole state.  Good players who just miss, most often go the Juco route as opposed to D3 in SoCal.  There are only 2 D2's in the entire state?!

[Floyd in Iowa City]

That is why I used   when talking about this stuff.  All of the games count.

The Central national title in 1974 IMO means just as much or more than the success that they have had in the league over the last three seasons.  Ditto for the Iowa success in the 1920s, 1950s, and 1980s meaning as much as the 2002-2004 seasons

Central fans do not think only the last 10-15 years would be considered "modern."

Luther's football traditions are not what they once were, but a school like Simpson should not feel like their good teams under Coach Williams are now ancient somehow.

Iowa still has a good all-time record against ISU even if the last 20 years are thrown out.

Does the "modern era" for most sports start when Wartburg started having consistent success?  Does that mean the modern era of basketball starts in the 1960s while the modern era of baseball starts when Wartburg hired the Loras coach 10 years ago?

[doolittledog]

Maybe the modern era could be 1950.  That's when the league got together and modernised a bit.  The IIAC goes back to the 1920's but most schools didn't play each other every year.  Dubuque played most conference schools 3-5 times per decade up till 1950.  Dubuque and Simpson NEVER played each other in football before 1950.  Maybe that is when we can say the modern era for the IIAC started. 

I would argue you can't just look at the last 10-15 years to judge programs.  Each conference school has had their eras where they did well and times when they were down.  If you just went by the last 10-15 years Wartburg, Central and Coe have been the top programs, but that wouldn't be fair to say they are always the top schools...well Central you can say that. 

I was just trying to say for those 30 and younger they will think Dubuque has always been at the bottom of the conference where in reality before 20 years ago they had winning records against half of the conference.  Now, against BV, Luther and Central they had VERY bad records!!! 

[footballdaddy]

This may not sound right or politically correct but here goes.  If a kid is picking a school at the D3 level and considering PT as the major concern something is wrong.  I think PH said it best about PH jr that the teaching style suited his learning style and the PT was a bonus.  There are few kids coming out of HS that will get PT at the college level at any level unless the program is a shambles.  I have to ask (this is the objectionable part) if a kid thinks he can not earn a spot at a school any school Wartburg, Central, Coe, UD (the top schools this year) does that school want him?  I think football takes a passion to be a player.  The one thing that I have taken from the Dutch (and it goes back to Coach Schipper I am told) is the saying play with passion.  If you don't love the game you will not succeed.  If you do not give 100% all the time you will not succeed.  So if you are choosing a school that will not drive you to that passion or giving the 100% all the time will that be a successful program.  To me it seems like there are some that like being a big fish in a small pond.  I think you need to be the shark and attack it all.  If your goal is PT then maybe you are not the player you thought you were.  If your goal is to be the best FB player on the field at your position I think you can play at any school.  Attitudes like that are not in every player.  Even at the D1 levels players that get the scholarships don't give their all and do not get PT because they don't have the passion.  Maybe they had the God given talents to succeed in HS but at the next level where ever it may be talent will not carry the day if you do not have the passion for the game.  Boil this down, there are many players that come out of HS that are good players on their team but are not good players for the next level.  I think Walston will attest to this there is no substitute for hard work, sweat, and blood that you leave on the practice field. 

DF hits the nail on the head. If a player goes to a school soley based on how much playing time he will get, he's playing for the wrong reason. If he goes to get an education, develop as a person and a football player, and possibly play at the varsity level, he's going to be successful football or not.  

[DutchFan2004]

This may not sound right or politically correct but here goes.  If a kid is picking a school at the D3 level and considering PT as the major concern something is wrong.  I think PH said it best about PH jr that the teaching style suited his learning style and the PT was a bonus.  There are few kids coming out of HS that will get PT at the college level at any level unless the program is a shambles.  I have to ask (this is the objectionable part) if a kid thinks he can not earn a spot at a school any school Wartburg, Central, Coe, UD (the top schools this year) does that school want him?  I think football takes a passion to be a player.  The one thing that I have taken from the Dutch (and it goes back to Coach Schipper I am told) is the saying play with passion.  If you don't love the game you will not succeed.  If you do not give 100% all the time you will not succeed.  So if you are choosing a school that will not drive you to that passion or giving the 100% all the time will that be a successful program.  To me it seems like there are some that like being a big fish in a small pond.  I think you need to be the shark and attack it all.  If your goal is PT then maybe you are not the player you thought you were.  If your goal is to be the best FB player on the field at your position I think you can play at any school.  Attitudes like that are not in every player.  Even at the D1 levels players that get the scholarships don't give their all and do not get PT because they don't have the passion.  Maybe they had the God given talents to succeed in HS but at the next level where ever it may be talent will not carry the day if you do not have the passion for the game.  Boil this down, there are many players that come out of HS that are good players on their team but are not good players for the next level.  I think Walston will attest to this there is no substitute for hard work, sweat, and blood that you leave on the practice field. 

DF hits the nail on the head. If a player goes to a school soley based on how much playing time he will get, he's playing for the wrong reason. If he goes to get an education, develop as a person and a football player, and possibly play at the varsity level, he's going to be successful football or not.  

Isn't that what D3 is all about?  I didn't know if I said it clearly enough but you got it.  I'd give you some +k but it says I have to wait it hasn't been 24 hours

[DutchFan2004]

Here is a question for the board.  Does Luther not getting a coach hired before the Christmas/semester break hurt them in the recruiting of players for next year or is there still plenty of time to get them on campus.  It has been 4 years since our family went through this.  I know that the scholarship days at Wartburg and Central will be coming up after the first of the year so I would think that is similar at Luther as well.  I think that the coaches would want to get the players there for that.

[Klopenhiemer]

I just noticed you're earlier typo.  You said playging football. Plaguing football is what some of the kids are doing.
DSquared-I haven't had the plague in a while, Have you?

You know WH I have always had a lot of respect for your posts and never jumped on the bash Wartburg bandwagoon.  It has always been obivous that you know what you taking about even if it was biased by your alma matter.  But you know what, picking out typos when you know what I was writing is amazing.  Most English teachers would blush seeing my sentence structure and spelling on this board.  Its not good.  Find something better to attack me on.  

[Wartburg Fan]

OK, so I've been gone a few days, but this conspiracy theory stuff about Wartburg taking their roster down after the season is something completely made up by someone trying to discredit what Koehler and boys have done and are trying to do.
Facts are Wartburg had 143 guys on the team this year and the roster, like it has every year since at least 1999 (when we had somewhere around 100 players), was taken down immediately after the season. Its all about looking toward the future and at the end of the year, the roster isn't accurate anyway.
If Koehler was trying to hide something, the coaches on the recruiting trail wouldn't be giving a program to all the kids they approach. If a kid has a question about who or how many kids WERE on the roster the last year, its right in front of him.
Its been said time and time again on here, and look at the successful programs in D3, the formula for success is numbers.
I know every kid that comes to camp at Wartburg now is given the opportunity to win a spot, and no one is guaranteed anything, whether the kid be new or a 3 time returning starter.
I personally was from a great HS program and had to put my time in there just to be all-district my senior year. I was fully expecting and prepared to wait 3 years to play at Wartburg, fortunately, or unfortunately for some guys, there were some injuries and I was able to beat out some guys and only wait 1 year. That almost backfired on me my senior year when a very talented freshman came in that pushed me for playing time, but it sure made me a lot better and more focused player that year.
How long does the bit about "being the class that turns it around" work? 3, 4 years for a coach? I can't imagine any longer than that. At some point kids are going to realize its a mediocre program and mediocre players are playing there.
Me personally, I'd rather play for a proven winner. I always have, and always plan to coach a winner. I was brought up being taught to be the best and if you weren't, you better put the necessary things in place to at least be in a position to be the best.
Shouldn't be any surprise to anyone that Wartburg and Central were my final 2 choices, and I almost became a Dutchman, but something about Wartburg felt right. I will always be happy with my decision (2 conference titles, winning record against every team in the conference except .500 against Coe, and graduated as the winningest football class in school history (at the time)).
If I were an elite D3-type student-athlete right now, I think those would still be the only places I looked, although I might actually listen to a Coe coach (as much as I don't like Coe, I have to respect them for what Raeburn has accomplished the last 7 years).

I agree with WH on playing time at Wartburg. My son came from a program that couldn't win one or two games in his 3yrs  when he was in hs. The Wartburg coaches told him that he wouldn't play his freshman yr (2003 do I need to say more) but if he worked hard his 1st yr he would get a shot at PT. His second yr he won the starting job and always had to work to keep it. He was also told the number of kids that were on the team when he asked during recuriting.

[doolittledog]

Here is a question for the board.  Does Luther not getting a coach hired before the Christmas/semester break hurt them in the recruiting of players for next year or is there still plenty of time to get them on campus.  It has been 4 years since our family went through this.  I know that the scholarship days at Wartburg and Central will be coming up after the first of the year so I would think that is similar at Luther as well.  I think that the coaches would want to get the players there for that.

So that's how they win on field!!! j/k

[Klopenhiemer]

OK, so I've been gone a few days, but this conspiracy theory stuff about Wartburg taking their roster down after the season is something completely made up by someone trying to discredit what Koehler and boys have done and are trying to do.
Facts are Wartburg had 143 guys on the team this year and the roster, like it has every year since at least 1999 (when we had somewhere around 100 players), was taken down immediately after the season. Its all about looking toward the future and at the end of the year, the roster isn't accurate anyway.
If Koehler was trying to hide something, the coaches on the recruiting trail wouldn't be giving a program to all the kids they approach. If a kid has a question about who or how many kids WERE on the roster the last year, its right in front of him.
Its been said time and time again on here, and look at the successful programs in D3, the formula for success is numbers.
I know every kid that comes to camp at Wartburg now is given the opportunity to win a spot, and no one is guaranteed anything, whether the kid be new or a 3 time returning starter.
I personally was from a great HS program and had to put my time in there just to be all-district my senior year. I was fully expecting and prepared to wait 3 years to play at Wartburg, fortunately, or unfortunately for some guys, there were some injuries and I was able to beat out some guys and only wait 1 year. That almost backfired on me my senior year when a very talented freshman came in that pushed me for playing time, but it sure made me a lot better and more focused player that year.
How long does the bit about "being the class that turns it around" work? 3, 4 years for a coach? I can't imagine any longer than that. At some point kids are going to realize its a mediocre program and mediocre players are playing there.
Me personally, I'd rather play for a proven winner. I always have, and always plan to coach a winner. I was brought up being taught to be the best and if you weren't, you better put the necessary things in place to at least be in a position to be the best.
Shouldn't be any surprise to anyone that Wartburg and Central were my final 2 choices, and I almost became a Dutchman, but something about Wartburg felt right. I will always be happy with my decision (2 conference titles, winning record against every team in the conference except .500 against Coe, and graduated as the winningest football class in school history (at the time)).
If I were an elite D3-type student-athlete right now, I think those would still be the only places I looked, although I might actually listen to a Coe coach (as much as I don't like Coe, I have to respect them for what Raeburn has accomplished the last 7 years).

I agree with WH on playing time at Wartburg. My son came from a program that couldn't win one or two games in his 3yrs  when he was in hs. The Wartburg coaches told him that he wouldn't play his freshman yr (2003 do I need to say more) but if he worked hard his 1st yr he would get a shot at PT. His second yr he won the starting job and always had to work to keep it. He was also told the number of kids that were on the team when he asked during recuriting.

Guys, I think we fell off the boat on this one.  If you do read my posts I never made this stance on my feelings alone.  I am sure you son did get told those things, and congrats to him for winning a starting postion.  Only 22 get that opportunity any given Saturday on any given team.  If you also re-read my post you will see that I do mention that argument might be weak and unfounded.  Guys PP has a lot things on it that are untrue at times and a lot of people troll the boards and stir up controversey.  I was not trying to ruffle any feathers, just giving a point of view that was explained to me.  

[Wartburg Fan]

Congrats to Norse RB Tyler Sherden and Knight DB Nick Weber for being named 1st team all-American by the American Football Coaches Association!  Sherden made the team as an all-purpose player while Weber made it as a DB.

From the IIAC website:
http://www.iowaconference.com/news/2007-08/1213football_afca.htm

From the Luther website:
http://sports.luther.edu/men/football/season-2007/News/allamerican.html

It seems more funny that Weber couldn't make a All Region team from D3.com but could make All-American.  Maybe there is the conspiracy theory.    

  Congrat's to both kids

[Klopenhiemer]

Here is a question for the board.  Does Luther not getting a coach hired before the Christmas/semester break hurt them in the recruiting of players for next year or is there still plenty of time to get them on campus.  It has been 4 years since our family went through this.  I know that the scholarship days at Wartburg and Central will be coming up after the first of the year so I would think that is similar at Luther as well.  I think that the coaches would want to get the players there for that.

I would ask the question is the interim head coach out pounding the recruiting trail?  If he is what is he saying to the kids that he is seeing.  I would say the end of Nov/Dec is a critical time in to get into the high schools and get these kids on campus.  It does not take a brain surgon to see that the d2 teams from MN are taking more and more kids.  I see a few more go every year.  I guess if the interim head coach has no shot at being the new HC but will stay with the program he might beable to bridge the gap.  If not this might be a lost year in recruiting for Luther that could show up in 3 more years.  I will say that when ISU hired a new coach he did bring in some talent right away.  I know this is apples to organges but isnt recruiting considered recruiting?

[BeaverOfYore]

Can we find a new topic?  I'm getting tired of explaining my stance a different way for each response.  The only point I was trying to make is that there are equally valid reasons for attending ANY school in the conference.  It doesn't take a guy any more "special" to make it at any one place.  Each school has its unique challenges.  Some are more successful on a regular basis, but overall, we have one of the most competitive conferences in the nation.  It's good for everyone that we don't have a Mount Union or the opposite, a Billy Penn.  It ensures that each school gets solid recruits because no team is so good that no one wants to play against them or so bad that you'd be embarrassed to play there. 

I think anybody who has the balls to come into this league and stick with it for four years, win or lose, is a "special" kid.  That's something we should all be able to agree on.

[DutchFan2004]

Can we find a new topic?  I'm getting tired of explaining my stance a different way for each response.  The only point I was trying to make is that there are equally valid reasons for attending ANY school in the conference.  It doesn't take a guy any more "special" to make it at any one place.  Each school has its unique challenges.  Some are more successful on a regular basis, but overall, we have one of the most competitive conferences in the nation.  It's good for everyone that we don't have a Mount Union or the opposite, a Billy Penn.  It ensures that each school gets solid recruits because no team is so good that no one wants to play against them or so bad that you'd be embarrassed to play there. 

I think anybody who has the balls to come into this league and stick with it for four years, win or lose, is a "special" kid.  That's something we should all be able to agree on.

I thought I already did 


I agree with you by the way 

[Klopenhiemer]

I have been contacted by George Mitchell to start an investigation into roster tampering in the IIAC.  He has asked me to formulate a report based upon what is said to recruits vs. what actually happens.  He has also asked me to look into height/weight that is printed vs. what is reality.  He has given me the tools of a Webster's Dictionary to help with my spelling, an MLA hand book to help with my gramar, and the password to goknights.com in order to further investigate. 

I will call my first two interviews to the table and please contact me immediatly.  There will be a strip search associated with every meeting just to make sure that we are being as detailed as we can.  BoBo from the WIAC board will be taking care of the seach. 

1. Walston Hoover
2. Sportsknight

Please allocate atleast 8 hours for the interview.  We will meet at the Lumber Yard in Des Moines, so that we can have the proper setting to discuss.  I will provide the Hamms.  Please bring atleast 50 dollars US Currency in the form of one dollar bills for demonstrations during the interview process.