FB: American Rivers Conference

[Storm-what?]

Just a minor clarification- Coe's average ACT for their freshman class was 25.5 this past fall- and that was one of the stongest on COe's history (their words not mine). Not a BIG difference, but the college does not have an average of 27 or 28 as previously mentioned by someone.    I have always been the first to say I think they have a very good academic program though, definitely in the top tier of the conference.

http://www.coe.edu/aboutcoe/enewsletter/enewsletter090707.htm

[doolittledog]

Interesting that you always hear the US is slipping academically.  And then you see what it takes to get accepted to schools now. 

In 1982 my sister was told you could get into the U of Iowa with an 18 ACT as long as your class rank and GPA were high enough but they preferred a 20 or higher.  In 1986 I was told by the U of Iowa that it didn't matter what my class rank or GPA was because I had scored a 26 on my ACT and that would mean automatic acceptance as an in-state student.  Dubuque, Coe and Cornell said the same thing. And it's a good thing I did well on the ACT because my class rank and GPA were not stellar!!!

Now it appears Joe Average is getting 25-30 on his ACT tests.  Either kids are getting smarter or the test is getting easier!!!

Now on to Staker.  Does he get any sort of grace period or is he out at Coe if he loses to Dubuque two straight years like Hefty and Niemann were at their schools???

[TheOne89.1]

Chandler and I had framework of a deal in place..to the point that they even had begun stenciling "Steve" on "my" office door...but then we had a disagreement on the guaranteed amount of Crunchberries and the Count Chocula-based incentives and the deal was off.

Well Heys, maybe the Carlton Knights or the Oles are looking for a new head coach.  It would no longer be Crunchberries and Count Choculas but instead Berry Colossal Crunches and Coco Roos.  At least your competition would be a whole lot easier against those crazy Southern Canadians from Minnysoda.

[sportsknight]

Interesting that you always hear the US is slipping academically.  And then you see what it takes to get accepted to schools now. 

In 1982 my sister was told you could get into the U of Iowa with an 18 ACT as long as your class rank and GPA were high enough but they preferred a 20 or higher.  In 1986 I was told by the U of Iowa that it didn't matter what my class rank or GPA was because I had scored a 26 on my ACT and that would mean automatic acceptance as an in-state student.  Dubuque, Coe and Cornell said the same thing. And it's a good thing I did well on the ACT because my class rank and GPA were not stellar!!!

Now it appears Joe Average is getting 25-30 on his ACT tests.  Either kids are getting smarter or the test is getting easier!!!

I don't know about the latter.  I went to high school w/ a kid that ended up wrestling and playing baseball at Loras.  First time he took the ACT he got a 14!  I think he pulled like an 18 or a 19 the second time around that that was good enough to get in.  Heck of an athlete, but dumb as a bag full of hammers.

[DutchFan2004]

Staker's daughter is married to the Head baseball Coach.  He has been their ten years.  I am sure that nothing is going to change now that her dad is the Head Football Coach. 

The big question is when is the first grandchild going to start playing Kohawk football?  I hope Steve is still their for that.

Well the first question i have is how old are the grandkids?  If they are not around yet I hope he can as he would be Joepa's age.  That would be fun to see.

[DutchFan2004]

Interesting that you always hear the US is slipping academically.  And then you see what it takes to get accepted to schools now. 

In 1982 my sister was told you could get into the U of Iowa with an 18 ACT as long as your class rank and GPA were high enough but they preferred a 20 or higher.  In 1986 I was told by the U of Iowa that it didn't matter what my class rank or GPA was because I had scored a 26 on my ACT and that would mean automatic acceptance as an in-state student.  Dubuque, Coe and Cornell said the same thing. And it's a good thing I did well on the ACT because my class rank and GPA were not stellar!!!

Now it appears Joe Average is getting 25-30 on his ACT tests.  Either kids are getting smarter or the test is getting easier!!!

Now on to Staker.  Does he get any sort of grace period or is he out at Coe if he loses to Dubuque two straight years like Hefty and Niemann were at their schools???

Boastful now are we.  Who said UD was going to continue their winning ways?   

[DutchFan2004]

Interesting that you always hear the US is slipping academically.  And then you see what it takes to get accepted to schools now. 

In 1982 my sister was told you could get into the U of Iowa with an 18 ACT as long as your class rank and GPA were high enough but they preferred a 20 or higher.  In 1986 I was told by the U of Iowa that it didn't matter what my class rank or GPA was because I had scored a 26 on my ACT and that would mean automatic acceptance as an in-state student.  Dubuque, Coe and Cornell said the same thing. And it's a good thing I did well on the ACT because my class rank and GPA were not stellar!!!

Now it appears Joe Average is getting 25-30 on his ACT tests.  Either kids are getting smarter or the test is getting easier!!!

I don't know about the latter.  I went to high school w/ a kid that ended up wrestling and playing baseball at Loras.  First time he took the ACT he got a 14!  I think he pulled like an 18 or a 19 the second time around that that was good enough to get in.  Heck of an athlete, but dumb as a bag full of hammers.

Now lets talk about the ACT/SATS.  Are they or are they not only a predictor of  successful students?  I know students that scored over 30 on ACT's and did not cut the majors of their choice.  Then I know stucents that scored 25-28 and they out performed those who didn't do so well.  I am sure if the students put in the time they got their degrees.  May only have been a 2.0 GPA but the old saying C's get degrees comes to mind. 

[sportsknight]

Just going off of my knowledge of other people I went to high school/college with and my experience as a student/alumni interviewer during a couple Wartburg scholarship days, it seems to me there is a variety of reasons why ACT score and GPA may not be directly correllated.  FYI - each of these conditions usually has a polar opposite (The Lazy Ass, the Good Tester, the Stays At Home on Saturday Nights).

-  The Hard Worker.  Usually a kid with a high GPA and not as high ACT.  Kid that is smart, but not upper-tier smart, but makes up for it by studying a lot (read: not having a life).

-  The Bad Tester.  High GPA, bad ACT.  Usually a very smart kid that just gets way too nervous/anxious when given a timed test.

-  The Partier.  Great grades and test scores in high school when Mom and Dad are looking over their shoulder, but drop them in the middle of an unsupervised college atmosphere (and mix in alcohol and the opposite sex), and the kid learns there are more important things than grades.

-  The Second Chance Case.  Usually a kid that didn't do so well in high school, but has a lot of academic success in college.  Kid barely gets into college or the school that they really wanted, and they decide that they better get their act together.

Probably many other examples, but those are the ones that immediately jump to mind.

[Klopenhiemer]

SK you words regarding the differnt type of students is pretty good.

I do see some holes in the system in general.  I think we come to many stark conclusion based upon ACT scores and GPA's coming out of high school.  I also think that we as employers/management put a little to much stake in the whole college GPA thing as well. 

I was a 20 ACT kid who sported at 2.9 in high school.  I was also a 2.7 kid at BV.  I did not learn to spell as many of you have seen

I will stand on soap box on this for a minute.  College is about preparing students for lives as productive adults.  As BVU says "Education for service".  I have close friends who fared far better than me grade wise, who are not achieving the levels of success they thought they would once they left the hallowed halls of BV.  There are other kids like myself who moved through the system niether underachieving or overachieving who are successful, more so than a lot of others. 

I would add the kid who has the street smarts and real world savy to this equation as well.  You can not teach a kid who questions the non compete contract they are given the first day on the job.  You cant teach a kid to go get something either.  That has to come from within.  You can also not place a value on OJT (on the job training), and mentoring.  This is where real learning takes place.  Just because you know what FAB (Features, Advantages, and Benefits) means, does not mean you know how to market financial solutions to people aged 30-65.  You had to have someone guide you into what types of products these people where buying, and then you could apply the FAB principal. 

Lets face it the money in the real world is in the private industry, not education.  Sometimes I questioned the professors as to why they were teaching.  I heard the "I gave up a lucrative career in sales to accept this teaching position".  Where you really that good?  Or did you find that you could not cut in the real world, so hiding in education best fitted you as a person.  Its always easier to tell someone how to do something rather than going out and doing it yourself.

Disclaimer:  There are many educators nationwide who make a big impact on children/young adults futures.  Those people are not the educators as I described above. 

[Klopenhiemer]

Congratulations to Coach Staker. 

I do see this hire similar to the BV hire in the sense that it made perfect sense.  Coach Staker had a vested interest in the Coe program, his ties to IA high school football will undoubtably help with recruiting, and he is very framilar with the program. 

The hire does protect the assistants at this point in time.  If you hire a new coach, there is a good chance that he will clean house and start over.  Lets face it, recruiting is in high gear right now.  FAFSA and the financial aid packages are coming out every day.  If you clean house, you might loose a lot of commitments. 

I think Coach Anderson was a good hire for BV.  But hiring Anderson also made it possible to retain all the assistants, and add on another coach framilar with the program.  Hiring an outside man, most likely would have pushed the others out, by choice or not.  Anderson was also the recruiting coordinator as well.  So it made sense for him to take over the helm.  He has also been a long time assistant, so you could say he earned his shot. 

Please do not see this as me bash Coe or BV.  I just found a lot similarities, and think this works well for both programs.  It will be very interesting to see how all the programs progress during the 2008 season. 

[BB]

Some schools in Iowa are trying to go away from just the GPA/ACT score when looking at admissions.   We were forced to sit through this thing the other week that talked about the RAI score (I think that is right??).  Anyway it was an equation that went something like this:  2 x ACT, 1 x Class Rank, 20 x GPA, 5 x Number of "core classes taken."   Each student would get a score, etc...

Good hire by Coe, that should definately help the transition be much smoother

[BeaverOfYore]

On the topic of ACTs/GPA translating into real world success, I would echo the things DF2004 and Klop have stated.  I would also add that knowing what you want to do has a lot to do with it.  I came into BV sporting a 31 ACT and a 3.9 high school GPA.  I left with a 2.7 GPA and a degree in Sports Mgmt. that took me 4 1/2 years to earn--not most people's idea of academic success.  The problem I had/have was finding what I wanted to do with my life.  I tried no less than four different majors before settling on one 2nd semester of my junior year.  I have no intentions of ever working in the Sport Mgmt. field, and I now work at a job that doesn't even require a degree.  My friends from high school who didn't test nearly as well as me are in optometry school and law school.  The difference between me and them is that they've known all along what they were doing after graduation, and they didn't spend 2 1/2 years taking worthless classes that ended up as elective credits.  Moral of the story--it's hard to get interested in your classes when you know you'll probably never use most of the things you're learning.

[doolittledog]

Interesting that you always hear the US is slipping academically.  And then you see what it takes to get accepted to schools now. 

In 1982 my sister was told you could get into the U of Iowa with an 18 ACT as long as your class rank and GPA were high enough but they preferred a 20 or higher.  In 1986 I was told by the U of Iowa that it didn't matter what my class rank or GPA was because I had scored a 26 on my ACT and that would mean automatic acceptance as an in-state student.  Dubuque, Coe and Cornell said the same thing. And it's a good thing I did well on the ACT because my class rank and GPA were not stellar!!!

Now it appears Joe Average is getting 25-30 on his ACT tests.  Either kids are getting smarter or the test is getting easier!!!

Now on to Staker.  Does he get any sort of grace period or is he out at Coe if he loses to Dubuque two straight years like Hefty and Niemann were at their schools???

Boastful now are we.  Who said UD was going to continue their winning ways?   

Nope, it could be a deal like 2004 when Coe won the IIAC and Dubuque went 1-7...with that 1 win against Coe...but if Staker was to lose 2 straight years to UD but also win conference titles I am sure the Coe faithful would forgive him losing to pathetic UD 

Of course during the off season we ARE supposed to be boastfull...so yeah, Dubuque WILL continue on their winning ways!!!

[Klopenhiemer]

On the topic of ACTs/GPA translating into real world success, I would echo the things DF2004 and Klop have stated.  I would also add that knowing what you want to do has a lot to do with it.  I came into BV sporting a 31 ACT and a 3.9 high school GPA.  I left with a 2.7 GPA and a degree in Sports Mgmt. that took me 4 1/2 years to earn--not most people's idea of academic success.  The problem I had/have was finding what I wanted to do with my life.  I tried no less than four different majors before settling on one 2nd semester of my junior year.  I have no intentions of ever working in the Sport Mgmt. field, and I now work at a job that doesn't even require a degree.  My friends from high school who didn't test nearly as well as me are in optometry school and law school.  The difference between me and them is that they've known all along what they were doing after graduation, and they didn't spend 2 1/2 years taking worthless classes that ended up as elective credits.  Moral of the story--it's hard to get interested in your classes when you know you'll probably never use most of the things you're learning.

You bring up a very interesting point.  I started college at a criminal justice major, wanting to be a US Marshall.  That is all that I ever wanted to do.  Well long story short, I became disenchanted with the school of social science at BV and spent about a 1.5 bouncing around differnt classes.  I did land in the business school, and I am doing something that I never envisioned. 

Your point about your friends testing lower than you, but are currently in law school, and med school is another outstanding point.  I see these majors as testicle busting, because you know what you are preparing for, med school or law school. 

But as a famous man once said, "If you do not know where you are you going, any road will get you there."

[sportsknight]

Lets face it the money in the real world is in the private industry, not education.  Sometimes I questioned the professors as to why they were teaching.  I heard the "I gave up a lucrative career in sales to accept this teaching position".  Where you really that good?  Or did you find that you could not cut in the real world, so hiding in education best fitted you as a person.  Its always easier to tell someone how to do something rather than going out and doing it yourself.

Disclaimer:  There are many educators nationwide who make a big impact on children/young adults futures.  Those people are not the educators as I described above. 

I'd say there's a certain measure of truth in this sentiment, Klop.  We had a couple of Communications profs at Wartburg that were far less proficient with the department's equipment than most of the sudents.  A big part of teaching (and many other professions) is credibility, and if you don't know more than your students, your credibility is shot.

Getting back to the admissions discussion, I think that without question, the most overrated component of a student's admissions "resume" is their class rank.  I had a 3.45 GPA in high school and was #15 in our class of 75.  We had 15 people that were 3.4 or higher, but #30 in the class barely pulled a 2.0.  Had my GPA been a quarter of a point lower, I only would have dropped like 5 places in class rank.  Besides that, if I went to West Dubuque instead of Cascade, my 3.45 would have put me around #40 in the class.  What does it matter how everyone else in my class did academically?  Because we had a top-heavy class GPA-wise, did that make me work harder to stay in that upper tier?  Hell no.