FB: American Rivers Conference

[ramfan27]

As a Vikings fan I'm happy to see Favre finally leave, as a football fan it's sad.  You can say Favre made some bad decisions but he was always fun to watch.  You've got to think that the difference between Favre and Vick, even if they throw similar passes in similar situations, is Favre knew there was only a small chance of success but was going to through anyway.  Why, because there still was a chance.  With Vick I think he's just making poor throws and didn't realize it.  Like Oz said, results matter and football IQ matter, athleticism can only take you so far.

[footballdaddy]

For the first and maybe the last time, I'm agreeing with a Johnnie. Farve has given so much to the game. He's not perfect, on the field or off (remember the Vicodin addiction), but he's a genuine human being who let his actions talk louder than his words. Add the courage of his wife fighting cancer, and I don't think you'd find a better man to admire. I still get a little teary thinking about him playing the day after his father died. He could think of no better way to honor his football coach father than to go out and play his heart out. He will be missed.

[OzJohnnie]

For the first and maybe the last time, I'm agreeing with a Johnnie.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

[Wartburg Fan]

 Now that I can sit in a chair longer then a couple of seconds, I just want to say congrats to Coach Staker and wish him and his team luck. As long as they lose to The Evil empire.

[sportsknight]

Wow, not sure I anticipated anyone so blatantly missing my point.  Let's start with what I actually said. 

I forget who it was on ESPN a couple years back, but somebody did a comparison between the throws/decisions Favre was making vs. the ones that Mike Vick was making.  Things were basically identical, but while Favre was hailed as the gunslinger that had a great passion for the game, Vick was called a bust that would never be able to be a traditional NFL quarterback.

Now here is your reply:

Hmmm.... maybe character, rather than raw talent, has more to do with why someone is admired.

Please educate me on where I said that Vick should be more admired than Favre.

The grit Farve showed.  The 'playing like an 8-year-old in the backyard' attitude.

I think there might be some 8 year olds out there that can break down defenses better than Favre did in '04-'06.

And it looks like somebody from ESPN was right about Vick being a bust

Vick is a bust because he's in jail, not for anything football related. 

they just didn't realize, like you, that character is what makes the man - not talent.  Of all the comparisons you could draw, you pick this?

Actually, it wasn't me making the comparison, it was someone on ESPN.

And for all the other comparisons you could draw you neglect to mention the large number of diamonds on Farve's hand.  Results matter.

One Super Bowl win, just as many as guys like Jeff Hostettler, Trent Dilfer, and Brad Johnson.  Yep, that puts Favre in some rare company.

Before you have to ask, the point of my post was not to claim that Favre wasn't a great quarterback.  He was, but if you ask me whether he's deserving of the kind of reverence that people send his way, I don't know.  He seems like a damn good guy, but that whole "no one has ever loved football as much as the gunslinger Brett Favre" crap is a little much.

[TheOne89.1]

I do agree he was a good QB...the problem I have with Favre is that some (note some not ALL) Packer's fans think he is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

If he throws an INT...they say the receiver ran the wrong route or didn't run full speed...never mind the fact that Favre was getting pressured and decided to launch the ball into orbit where there are three defenders hanging around.

As for character...no, he is not a Michael Vick, but yes he is human.  He was addicted to pain killers.  An addiction, just like some NFL players are addicted to marijuana and have a drug problem.  But because Favre can not do any wrong in some (note some not ALL) football fans eyes, his pill problem was "just a testament to how hard his life was and what a great guy he was to admit he had a problem and worked to over come it."

[the_mayne_event]

his pill problem was "just a testament to how hard his life was and what a great guy he was to admit he had a problem and worked to over come it."

i loved his quote after the cowboys game
"Brett what about your shoulder, will that hurt the chances of you playing next week?" - or something to that end
"My shoulder?.. Nah, we'll just shoot that up."

he could have probably played til he died, there is no way he feels anything anymore after the daily baths in cortisone he probably took

[OzJohnnie]

Hmm... missing the point?  I think that in your effort to point out that I missed the point, you missed the point.  How embarrassing.

Now here is your reply:

Hmmm.... maybe character, rather than raw talent, has more to do with why someone is admired.

Please educate me on where I said that Vick should be more admired than Favre.

You didn't say he should be "more" admired, you held out a comparison on Vick as someone being equally worthy of admiration due to the fact that Vick had similar numbers to Favre on the field.  Or, at the very least an example of Favre getting undo admiration as he should have been regarded as lowly as Vick.

My point (which you apparently missed.  Geez, I hate it when that happens, don't you?) was to explain the reason that people held Favre in such high regard even though his numbers were matched by others in the  NFL.

(Nice list of one time Superbowl winners, by the way.  Are you on there?  No?  So even those one time winners (almost as good as losers, really, no?) are better, huh?)

Before you have to ask, the point of my post was not to claim that Favre wasn't a great quarterback.  He was, but if you ask me whether he's deserving of the kind of reverence that people send his way, I don't know.  He seems like a damn good guy, but that whole "no one has ever loved football as much as the gunslinger Brett Favre" crap is a little much.

As long as we're playing the quoting game, where did anyone ever say "no one has ever loved football as much as the gunslinger Brett Favre?"

The reverence is due to the fact that Favre not only played well, but played with a spirit most can admire (and you may too if you can let go of your Favre envy).  He played when hurt, like an iron-man of old.  He played with true grit when all others would have forgiven his absence after his father's death.  He played almost every game with the joy and passion of an '8-year-old playing in the back yard.'  To not admire that character and spirit, as you are bound and determined to do, requires a Scrooge-like determination to be a humbug.

Enjoy the moment.  Let Brett and his fans (and, gasp, admirers) enjoy it as well.

[footballdaddy]

Who would you rather have your son grow up to be like? Tom Brady or Bret Farve? while it would be an ego boost to say your son is impregnating supermodels, I'd rather have my son grow up to be a man. Some times numbers tell the story, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes someone rises above the numbers to be one of the greatest. I'd put Farve in the top 5 quarterbacks of all time, not becuse of his records, but how he acheived those records. I wish I enjoyed my job as much as Bret Farve did his.

[DutchFan2004]

For the first and maybe the last time, I'm agreeing with a Johnnie.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Not for very long is it right.   

[DutchFan2004]

Who would you rather have your son grow up to be like? Tom Brady or Bret Farve? while it would be an ego boost to say your son is impregnating supermodels, I'd rather have my son grow up to be a man. Some times numbers tell the story, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes someone rises above the numbers to be one of the greatest. I'd put Farve in the top 5 quarterbacks of all time, not becuse of his records, but how he acheived those records. I wish I enjoyed my job as much as Bret Farve did his.

I think this depends on who you are talking to.    Hugh Hefner or the Pope.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Question to doubters: is there a major qb record that Favre doesn't own?  Yards passing? check.  TD passes? check.  Super Bowl rings? um, as Elway detractors also forgot, that is a TEAM achievement.

Yes, Brett was a gambler, and gamblers make mistakes.  If you prefer a qb who doesn't sometimes make 'dumb' passes, Favre is not your guy.  But your guy (whoever it is) will also rarely if ever make you say "My God - did you see that?!!"  I suspect that Favre's gambles led to far more wins they shouldn't have won than losses they shouldn't have lost.

[footballdaddy]

In thinking about the Farve topic I'm starting to see some parallels between players like Farve and those like Terrell Owens and Chad Johnson and the players in D3 and D1. Some are in it for the ego and the glory, while others are in it for the love of the game.

I watched a program from NFL films once about the Super Bowl. Terry Bradshaw gave me a great definition of love for football. It was someting like "If God granted me any wish I had, it would be: Put me in the Super Bowl, down by six. Give me my boys. Let me have the ball on my twenty with two minutes and my time outs . That's all I'd ever want." I can't think of a better way to describe how much you love to play football. Not winning or losing. but the chance to play when everything is on the line. 

[TheOne89.1]

Question to doubters: is there a major qb record that Favre doesn't own?  Yards passing? check.  TD passes? check.  Super Bowl rings? um, as Elway detractors also forgot, that is a TEAM achievement.

He owns them for now and Elway is sitting at 3rd in most...but give it another 3 or 4 years and it will be Manning and Brady with Favre sitting at 3rd.

I think Favre was a good QB...but not a GREAT QB.   He took a gamble and lots of risks with his throws...but it just seemed like he never took blame for those risks when they failed.  Every athlete fails...the great ones admit they took a gamble and missed.  The good ones blame others (or more so the fans of those good ones blame others).

[BeaverOfYore]

...just like some NFL players are addicted to marijuana and have a drug problem...

Did anyone else read this and think of Bob Saget's line in "Half Baked?"  Marijuana's about as addictive as caffeine.  I'd say the millionaires in the NFL are more likely to develop a problem riding the white pony than become addicted to pot.