FB: American Rivers Conference

[doolittledog]

We can celebrate our heritage while being a melting pot at the same time.  One problem with recent pushes for multi-culteralism is you don't see cultures mixing.  They just stay in their own little world.  In Waterloo we have had recent imigrations from Bosnia and Mexico.  The Bosnians have kept their culture, still speak their languange at home, but they all learned english, jumped into the job market and can be found everywhere from selling cars to real estate to owning their own business.  They jumped at the american dream and are doing well.  The mexicans for the most part are refusing to learn english because they say that will mean they are losing their culture.  They therefore remained isolated from the community as a whole and their job prospects are more limited to working at places like the local meat packing plant.  I love the differences america has to offer.  I loved that while I was at Dubuque I had friends from Japan, China, Brazil and Malasia.  My friends there all kept their culture and were able to teach me things about where they came from.  Just as they learned about America and learned from me.  We just need to remember it's a two-way street and don't divide into a bunch of ethnic groups that never associate with each other under the guise of multi-culturalism!!! 

Onto the big school vs small school debate.  I was in a 4A school district through the 8th grade before moving to a 2A school.  I was much more involved at the 2A school as well as had teachers that were much more involved with their students than what I found at the 4A school.  I would bet that is fairly typical. 

[TheOne89.1]

I came from a small high school like many of you.  36 in my graduating class.  I played 3 sports (damn MN, I wish we had 4 seasons) and was in both band and choir.  I also was in knowledge bowl (an academic type team competition between schools) and participated in a couple of school plays.  I also was able to take a lot of upper level high school classes like Physics, Chemistry, Calculus, Humanities (a college leveled English course), and even Latin.  The small school allowed me to be involved in a lot. 

However, things have been going downhill since class sizes get smaller and smaller.  Some are sitting at mid to low 20's now.  They don't offer all those classes anymore.  We went from 11-man football to 9-man football and was just informed they need a head coach for this year (a friend suggested I take the job...hell I haven't even been an assistant yet).  We share many sports with Caledonia (90-100 per class)...gymnastics, wrestling, golf, track and field, softball...used to share football and looks like that may happen again. 

There was talk of consolidating with another small school (Mabel-Canton) but we still would only top out at 50 per class at best.  Probably would have to consolidate again in a few years.  Money wise the school can't afford to offer programs and classes like they used to.  Small schools just can't survive anymore.  I will be the first to say I loved going to a small school where I knew everyone and could be in everything...but with less and less classes being offered I think the kids are going to be farther behind academically.  Don't even get me started on sports.  Most of the guys I played with at Wartburg had won state football titles or been to the championship game.  We were no where close to that.  I hate to see small schools go and small towns to lose their identity with their high school, but it's best for everyone to consolidate.

[DutchFan2004]

We can celebrate our heritage while being a melting pot at the same time.  One problem with recent pushes for multi-culteralism is you don't see cultures mixing.  They just stay in their own little world.  In Waterloo we have had recent imigrations from Bosnia and Mexico.  The Bosnians have kept their culture, still speak their languange at home, but they all learned english, jumped into the job market and can be found everywhere from selling cars to real estate to owning their own business.  They jumped at the american dream and are doing well.  The mexicans for the most part are refusing to learn english because they say that will mean they are losing their culture.  They therefore remained isolated from the community as a whole and their job prospects are more limited to working at places like the local meat packing plant.  I love the differences america has to offer.  I loved that while I was at Dubuque I had friends from Japan, China, Brazil and Malasia.  My friends there all kept their culture and were able to teach me things about where they came from.  Just as they learned about America and learned from me.  We just need to remember it's a two-way street and don't divide into a bunch of ethnic groups that never associate with each other under the guise of multi-culturalism!!! 

Onto the big school vs small school debate.  I was in a 4A school district through the 8th grade before moving to a 2A school.  I was much more involved at the 2A school as well as had teachers that were much more involved with their students than what I found at the 4A school.  I would bet that is fairly typical. 

Better said than I stated.  We have to blend together to become one.  If we keep maintaining our own cultures we can not blend.  Not to mention for me that would over load the brain as I would have to keep the Polish, German on both sides, Irish on both sides, and Hungarian traditions.  I don't see having many cultures come together as a downfall.  The downfall is if we all want to keep and maintain these cultures.  The quote "A house divided can not stand" comes to mind.  If we keep apart we can not come together to stand as one.  + k Doolittle. 

[sportsknight]

I disagree with you about the multi cultural "advantage" you speak of.  I think that is one of the down falls of our country.  Our greatest assest as United States Americans was that we set our cultural differences aside and became this melting pot.  Trying to bridge those differences and bound us together.  My greatgrandmother came from Germany, her husband from Poland.  She would not allow either language to be spoken because they were Americans now.  We do need to come together and have a common purpose.  One that unites us not keeps us apart.  To be friends with different people sure but to have separate cultures we can not stand united.  The size of the school is not an issue.  The closeness of the school is.  If the school is a close knit school of kids that have pride and care for each other that is the important thing.  I will never forget that when the youngest went off to Central there was another kid that was in his orientation group.  He was from a team that we had beaten in the playoffs.  His mom told me after that her son came out and said he could not believe that my son was a nice kid and he liked him.  When the kids go off to college they get melted again together.  If the kids are more willing to come together than be separate our country will be better off.

Anybody else start humming "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" to themselves halfway through reading this?   

On to the issue at hand:  I think my high school experience was very similar to a lot of you.  I also went to a small school - 70 of us in my graduating class and we were considered a "small class."  I was able to play football and golf, write for the student newspaper, participate in speech and drama productions, sing in the choir, be VP of the Spanish Club, get good grades, and have boatloads of fun.  My involvement was limited only by my ability, not by time constraints.  Had I been better at baseball or basketball, I would have played them too.

Academically, we had a great school.  Some of the highest test scores in Iowa, and through an agreement with a local community college, we were able to take college-credit courses in subjects from English to Economics to Psychology to Physics.  I think the biggest class I was ever in had maybe 30 kids, with the smallest being more like 10.

But just like TheOne, class sizes are starting to shrink a bit.  This year's graduating class was 55 students.  I heard the elementary school had to re-assign a couple of teachers because some grade levels are too small to require two teachers (better than laying them off).  The high school has gone to a block scheduling format, which has supposedly increased the variety of the courses available, and the college-credit offerings are still there.  But there has been massive turnover within the faculty.  Cascade became a public school in the fall of 1976 and hired a bunch of wet-behind-the-ears teachers and nearly every one of that original group has retired since I graduated.  I'm not saying that old teachers teach better than younger ones (if you ever met my US History teacher, you'd know that wasn't the case), but a substantial percentage of new teachers leave the profession within their first five years, and I'm wondering if that continued turnover will have an adverse effect on the learning that goes on.

I'd be willing to be that in the next 20-25 years, the number of school districts in Iowa will be cut in half.  Some of the smallest districts just aren't going to survive.  There's been a big shift in probably the last 10-15 years where the average high school grad goes of to college and doesn't return to their hometown.  They might settle in a city near it, but not in the same city.  Look at some of the folks around here...I graduated from Cascade and now live an hour away in Cedar Falls, WH is from AP but resides in Ankeny, TheOne is from a small town in SE Minnesota but calls Winona home.  That urban shift is going to cause class sizes to keep falling until there's no one left at some schools.

I think Iowa is just joining the curve with this process.  I have a friend who's originally from Springfield, Mass.  He has told me on a couple occassions that he's amazed at how many high schools there are in Iowa.  I guess Massachusetts is basically split into two parts.  In the west where the population is more sparse, every county has their own high school.  In the east, there are a few county schools as well, but if a city is large enough they have their own high school.  I forget how many he said that Boston has, but I'm sure its a bundle.  Let's face it, the educational system in many midwestern states is only about 100-150 years old, meaning that we're still kind of working the kinks out.  We've gone from one room schoolhouses to country schools to several towns combining to form school districts, and more consolidation is likely on the horizon.

[Alfredeneumann]

Wartburg Football 2008 team captains selected

June 25, 2008

Wartburg College head football coach Eric Koehler and his staff recently named senior linebackers Ryan Gerardy of Eldridge and Kyle Goodchild of Van Horne, wide receiver Dan Bauder of Elkader and tight end Ryan Hoerner of Epworth as 2008 team captains.

Defensively, Gerardy ended fifth in tackles last fall, recording 23 solo and unassisted tackles. Goodchild was tied for second in tackles (67) and was also among the team leaders with 7.5 tackles for losses.

On the offensive end, Bauder, being transplanted from quarterback duties, ended up with 19 receptions for 250 yards and caught two passes for touchdowns last fall. Hoerner, the receiving corps leader in total yards (523) and yards per reception (19.4), caught four touchdown passes.

"These players are proven leaders in our program," head coach Eric Koehler said. "Not only are they all established players at Wartburg and in the Iowa Conference, they are also good people, good students, and good representatives of the college. It is an honor for these four players to be elected captains by their teammates. However, as a program, we will look to the leadership of each of our 22 seniors during the 2008 season."

[DutchFan2004]

SK,

I agree that the future of Iowa Schools may not look bright in that there are more consolidations coming. 

[dutchfan1]

We can celebrate our heritage while being a melting pot at the same time.  One problem with recent pushes for multi-culteralism is you don't see cultures mixing.  They just stay in their own little world.  In Waterloo we have had recent imigrations from Bosnia and Mexico.  The Bosnians have kept their culture, still speak their languange at home, but they all learned english, jumped into the job market and can be found everywhere from selling cars to real estate to owning their own business.  They jumped at the american dream and are doing well.  The mexicans for the most part are refusing to learn english because they say that will mean they are losing their culture.  They therefore remained isolated from the community as a whole and their job prospects are more limited to working at places like the local meat packing plant.  I love the differences america has to offer.  I loved that while I was at Dubuque I had friends from Japan, China, Brazil and Malasia.  My friends there all kept their culture and were able to teach me things about where they came from.  Just as they learned about America and learned from me.  We just need to remember it's a two-way street and don't divide into a bunch of ethnic groups that never associate with each other under the guise of multi-culturalism!!! 

Onto the big school vs small school debate.  I was in a 4A school district through the 8th grade before moving to a 2A school.  I was much more involved at the 2A school as well as had teachers that were much more involved with their students than what I found at the 4A school.  I would bet that is fairly typical. 

I have to say that I fundamentally disagree with this mindset. I think that diversity, and being able to adapt and understand one another person's way of thinking, and valuing them for their differences will only make us stronger.

How many of you have travelled abroad and had to assimilate to culture where you did not know/speak the language fluently? I would imagine that you found it a little tough, and sought out other English-speakers. It's natural to do so. When non-English speaking people come to the US, they do the same thing. They try to learn the language, but it doesn't happen over night, and they hang with people who speak a familiar language. It takes a while to assimilate and learn. English is not an easy language to master, either. (Some of the posters here are still having difficulty, and I would imagine English is your native language.) 

It really disappoints me that we reject the different, and get upset with people who do not conform to our way of thinking immediately. With different cultures and backgrounds come different world views, and opportunities to learn from one another.

[And.....I'm officially off the soapbox. Sorry.]

[oldNorse]

The One 89.1...
What high school in MN did you go to?  Sounds like the one I attended....Spring Grove MN.

[DutchFan2004]

We can celebrate our heritage while being a melting pot at the same time.  One problem with recent pushes for multi-culteralism is you don't see cultures mixing.  They just stay in their own little world.  In Waterloo we have had recent imigrations from Bosnia and Mexico.  The Bosnians have kept their culture, still speak their languange at home, but they all learned english, jumped into the job market and can be found everywhere from selling cars to real estate to owning their own business.  They jumped at the american dream and are doing well.  The mexicans for the most part are refusing to learn english because they say that will mean they are losing their culture.  They therefore remained isolated from the community as a whole and their job prospects are more limited to working at places like the local meat packing plant.  I love the differences america has to offer.  I loved that while I was at Dubuque I had friends from Japan, China, Brazil and Malasia.  My friends there all kept their culture and were able to teach me things about where they came from.  Just as they learned about America and learned from me.  We just need to remember it's a two-way street and don't divide into a bunch of ethnic groups that never associate with each other under the guise of multi-culturalism!!! 

Onto the big school vs small school debate.  I was in a 4A school district through the 8th grade before moving to a 2A school.  I was much more involved at the 2A school as well as had teachers that were much more involved with their students than what I found at the 4A school.  I would bet that is fairly typical. 

I have to say that I fundamentally disagree with this mindset. I think that diversity, and being able to adapt and understand one another person's way of thinking, and valuing them for their differences will only make us stronger.

How many of you have travelled abroad and had to assimilate to culture where you did not know/speak the language fluently? I would imagine that you found it a little tough, and sought out other English-speakers. It's natural to do so. When non-English speaking people come to the US, they do the same thing. They try to learn the language, but it doesn't happen over night, and they hang with people who speak a familiar language. It takes a while to assimilate and learn. English is not an easy language to master, either. (Some of the posters here are still having difficulty, and I would imagine English is your native language.) 

It really disappoints me that we reject the different, and get upset with people who do not conform to our way of thinking immediately. With different cultures and backgrounds come different world views, and opportunities to learn from one another.

[And.....I'm officially off the soapbox. Sorry.]

I am not totally shocked by this post.  Not picking a fight.  I think you missed the point.  People that came to this country like my greatgrandparents came to fit in.  The people Doolittle have reffered to are not trying to fit in.  No one is belittling their past heritage.  But when in Rome do as the Romans.  If you do stay for a time in a foreign land you have to adjust and pick up their language to survive.  That is the natural thing to do.  I am not saying that they forget where they have come from but to look where they want to go or are at the present time.  If those people want to prosper and get farther ahead in this culture they have to adapt to what it is.  The question should be if their culture is great than why are they here and not there?  I am not saying that they have nothing to offer but if my ancestors could pick up an new language why can not the people coming here today.  There are way more places to learn it now that 100 years ago.  The whole point of this is not to make them feel bad but to lift them up and blend into what has made this country what it is.  I do think the diverse cultures that have melted here have made this the best country to be in.  Where else can we chat about topics and sports and attend games?  I hope this makes sense to you DF1 I am not picking on you as much as trying to explain what I have said.  We have to come together some how and if you won't participate you can not be a part of it.  That is my whole point.  The Hispanic people I have dealt with are some of the greatest hard working people I have met.  I think that is a great quality and one that is needed if you are going to a new place to try to make it. 

[Purple Heys]

On to the issue at hand:  I think my high school experience was very similar to a lot of you.  I also went to a small school - 70 of us in my graduating class and we were considered a "small class."  I was able to play football and golf, write for the student newspaper, participate in speech and drama productions, sing in the choir, be VP of the Spanish Club, get good grades, and have boatloads of fun.  My involvement was limited only by my ability, not by time constraints.  Had I been better at baseball or basketball, I would have played them too.

A different perspective from SoCal.

Heys Jr. graduating class was 610 kids.  Total school enrollment (4 year) 3400 (give or take)  There is a second High School in our school district at approximately the same size if not bigger.

SK, I tend to agree with you that the opportunities for involvement at a small school are possibly better.

A baseball team only has 9 positions and 20-25 roster spots, a basketball team typically carries 15 kids, there are only so many parts in Drama Production.   These are constants whether there 300 or 3000 in a school.  Kids here are often forced to make a choice of one or the other but not both because simply put there is the competition just for a spot on a team.

Heys Jr. was a rarity being a 3 sport letterman,  Daughter Heys achieved the same, and we are hoping to see Rev. 3 achieve the same.

Rev. 3's challenges are that at least one of his preferred 3 sports expects a year round committment and no secondary sport participation.  They won't "officially' state this but it is made abundantly clear that is modus operandi of that program.  They don't really need to...the competition in that sport, Baseball, is so intense that it may require it just to compete at the level.

To illustrate:  There are 520+ Little Leagues in SoCal...that's Leagues not Teams.  The winner of the those 520+ leagues goes to the LLB Western Region after being put through the meatgrinder of SoCal.  Since 2003, 4 North County San Diego teams have made it to the SoCal Championship Tourney (remaining 8 teams out of 520+ Leagues), 3 have advanced to the Western Region, 2 to the LLB World Series.

3 of those 4 teams were from the Vista/Oceanside School District that feeds our High School.

At a Division 3 or 4 school, maybe Division 2, he could play all three...at Division 1...very tough.

An FYI on numbers...this year our school had 23 kids receive athletic scholarships for next year.  Just this past week local rival, Oceanside High had its 3rd kid declare an early committment to a D-1 school.  With such big numbers the competition rachets up.

The kicker...San Diego is small compared to L.A. and Orange County and what is called the Southern Section.

I say enjoy attending a small school and having the opportunity to explore opportunities you'd otherwise have to bypass.

[Purple Heys]

BTW regarding melting pot commentary...

Heys Jr. is 50% Hispanic (Cuban)

[doolittledog]

Dutchie, you missed the point of my post.  We are a melting pot society.  We have taken parts of everyones culture that has come to America and make it our own.  We celebrate St. Patricks day, Cinco de Mayo, Christmas, Hannukah, and Kwanzaa.  We are a welcoming society.  When you said "I have to say that I fundamentally disagree with this mindset. I think that diversity, and being able to adapt and understand one another person's way of thinking, and valuing them for their differences will only make us stronger." That is exactly what I was trying to say.  Something that I have noticed recently is that in our desire to be more inclusive and supportive of other cultures is that we are inadvertantly letting some dissacossiate themselves from our culture.  By not requiring everyone evenually learn english...by letting them take english as a second language in school and having public signs in multiple languages...is that they get involved in their little community and never try to associate with other cultures we have here in America. 

I was appraising a home recently where the owners were getting tranferred to France and John Deere was putting them through training to prepare them for living in a foriegn country.  The man tutoring them gave them contacts for the local USA ex-pat society but then added he wanted them to go out and make French friends and get involved with the French society instead of making some US friends over there and doing nothing but hanging out with Americans.  They will have a richer experiance in France if they do that.  Just as immigrants will have a richer experiance in the USA if they bring their culture and share with us and then we can share our culture back with them. 

In the last decade Waterloo has seen an influx of Bosnian and Mexican immigrants.  This has been great for Waterloo.  The area now has a better understanding of two cultures they knew little about untill recently.  Something similar happened after WWII when there was a smaller Greek community that immigrated to the area.  There are Bosnian and Mexican resteraunts, grocery's, bakery's now that has added to the community.  One thing I have noticed though is that the Bosnians, while maintaining their culture, learned english and actively sought out becoming parts of the community.  The Mexican population did so on a much smaller basis compared to the Bosnian community.  Teacher friends of mine have mentioned that virtually no Bosnians today are in english as a second language classes while the mexicans are still in these classes.  To me it doesn't seem like there is much incentive to them to ever try to become part of our society because we are adapting to them rather than they trying to adapt to us. 

I know those are generalizations and this probably isn't coming across properly.  My point is that the term "melting pot" has now taken on a derogatory meaning that Americans say immigrants must change and become this homogenious society, when in fact the term "melting pot" originally meant that all groups of immigrants brought with them something of their society with them and America took something from everyones society and mixed it all together and we had a mixture of cultures.  Now, it seems to me that to be PC we want people coming here to never change.  And if that happends I think we will have a society that builds up a lot of walls.  No one from different groups will ever want to associate with others because they won't have to. 

[Klopenhiemer]

Wow I go away for a few days and look what happens. 

I will give me 2 cents worth on a few issues. 

Large School vs. Small School

I see this debate a little bit like the IIAC coverage conversation.  Each party has very strong opinions on both sides.  I went to a 4A school and would not send a child to a school smaller than the one I went to.  I like all that I was exposed to.  I also liked growing up in the metro area and all it offered.  I viewed the small town very different before I actually lived in one for 3.5 years and gained an education. 

I saw small town as small minds, and simplistic ways.  I thought these small towns were places where everyone knew what color your poop was and what your business was.  The thing is, I had the same thing growing up in a 4A city, I just did not realize it.  When I went to Storm Lake I saw what small town living was all about.  It has its advantages, and I would defend both size schools depending upon the situation. 

I had many friends that played 3 sports  and were involved in many other things such as National Honor Soceity.  At first glance I wanted to say that the paint brush was to broad saying you could not do all of these at large school.  I think times are changing and we are getting more and more specialized as a society.  Many of my friends from BV partook in show choir in high school.  Show choir was about the last thing on my list when I was in high school.  After hearing their experiences, it sounded pretty cool.  Now frankly singing and dancing is not my deal (unless its 4am and have to many old styles ), but if I did have an interest, it would have been fun.  Many athelets from my high school partook in show choir as well. 

Diversity is a touchy issue: understanding it and coping with it.  During my teunure in the school system I grew up in, there was a large influx of Bosian immigrants.  This created some very hectic/tense situations at times.  There were a lot of mixed emotions due to some of breaks they were given compared to what other familys in the area were afforded.  I can not say that I took anything away from this, other than a negative image

I did not really undestand what diversity was and what the melting pot really meant until I moved away from IA.  Living in Chicago has been an education in its own respect.  Growing up, I could choose who I hung out with.  I did not have to make friends with the new Bosian students.  That was my choice.  Now I am in the business world.  I have to interact with all ethnic creeds, all social levels, and all backgrounds. 

I travel the Chicago metro/burbs for my job.  It is not uncommon for me to me in very poor communities and very rich communities in the same day.  One perk of the job is my expense account and the fact I get to take people to lunch (of course I am an ex o lineman).  Sitting down with people in their neighborhood and breaking bread with them is a powerfull thing.  You start to truely understand what their culture means and what all goes into it.  I would say I was very closed minded when I left IA, and have become very open minded. 

Throwing people together and asking them to coexist without an understanding of eachother leads to a lot of negative things.  Also posting road signs in 15 different laguages and allowing people who can not speak any English obtain motor vehicle licenses and drive does not solve anything either.  Common ground is not found until the idea of getting to the common ground is established. 

+k to all within reach. 

[sportsknight]

Where to begin...

A different perspective from SoCal.

An FYI on numbers...this year our school had 23 kids receive athletic scholarships for next year.  Just this past week local rival, Oceanside High had its 3rd kid declare an early committment to a D-1 school.  With such big numbers the competition rachets up.

This is the trade-off between big schools and small schools.  In smaller schools, you can do more, but you'll probably have a smaller chance of getting noticed.  Bigger schools are almost always in larger population centers, which means more media, which equals more coverage, which equals a higher likelihood that big-time college recruiters are going to take notice.  To put it more simply:  Assuming equal abilitites, a kid that attends Cedar Rapids Kennedy is more likely to get D1 notice than a kid from Olin, IA.

I think I went to high school with a grand total of six athletes that eventually went on to play at the Division One level (I'm not even sure they all got rides).  That's six in seven years at my high school, and 23 in one year in Oceanside.  Of those six guys, four played baseball, one basketball, and one golf, if anyone was curious.

I am not totally shocked by this post.  Not picking a fight.  I think you missed the point.  People that came to this country like my greatgrandparents came to fit in.  The people Doolittle have reffered to are not trying to fit in.  No one is belittling their past heritage.  But when in Rome do as the Romans.  If you do stay for a time in a foreign land you have to adjust and pick up their language to survive.  That is the natural thing to do.  I am not saying that they forget where they have come from but to look where they want to go or are at the present time.  If those people want to prosper and get farther ahead in this culture they have to adapt to what it is.  The question should be if their culture is great than why are they here and not there?   I am not saying that they have nothing to offer but if my ancestors could pick up an new language why can not the people coming here today.  There are way more places to learn it now that 100 years ago.  The whole point of this is not to make them feel bad but to lift them up and blend into what has made this country what it is.  I do think the diverse cultures that have melted here have made this the best country to be in.  Where else can we chat about topics and sports and attend games?  I hope this makes sense to you DF1 I am not picking on you as much as trying to explain what I have said.  We have to come together some how and if you won't participate you can not be a part of it.  That is my whole point.  The Hispanic people I have dealt with are some of the greatest hard working people I have met.  I think that is a great quality and one that is needed if you are going to a new place to try to make it. 

Here's where you lost me.  I'm Irish on both sides and the vast majority of my forebears came to this country as a direct result of the Blight.  They didn't leave Ireland because the culture was lacking (quite the opposite, actually), they left because they would have died if they didn't.  Does that mean that "American culture" is that much better than the Ireland they left?  Does it mean that I shouldn't wear green on St. Patrick's Day or sing "Danny Boy" at funerals or read the works of Joyce, Beckett, and McCourt?

My point is that the term "melting pot" has now taken on a derogatory meaning that Americans say immigrants must change and become this homogenious society, when in fact the term "melting pot" originally meant that all groups of immigrants brought with them something of their society with them and America took something from everyones society and mixed it all together and we had a mixture of cultures.

I'm not so sure that "melting pot" was the right term to begin with.  To me, that conjures a notion of putting a bunch of ingredients into one pot until they eventually become the same.  That's not America.  America is a lot more like a gumbo, where each ingredient that is added brings a new and different flavor and texture to the pot that wasn't there before.

Something that I have noticed recently is that in our desire to be more inclusive and supportive of other cultures is that we are inadvertantly letting some dissacossiate themselves from our culture.  By not requiring everyone evenually learn english...by letting them take english as a second language in school and having public signs in multiple languages...is that they get involved in their little community and never try to associate with other cultures we have here in America. 

One thing I have noticed though is that the Bosnians, while maintaining their culture, learned english and actively sought out becoming parts of the community.  The Mexican population did so on a much smaller basis compared to the Bosnian community.  Teacher friends of mine have mentioned that virtually no Bosnians today are in english as a second language classes while the mexicans are still in these classes.  To me it doesn't seem like there is much incentive to them to ever try to become part of our society because we are adapting to them rather than they trying to adapt to us. 

I have to disagree with you there.  Anyone that believes that an immigrant in this country is better off not learning english is just flat wrong.  And I'd be very interested to see a traffic sign printed in 15 different languages.

You are correct that there has been a larger effort to assimilate by the Bosnian population.  But some groups are quicker to adapt than others.  Got to Koreatown in Chicago or some of the Hmong neighborhoods in the Twin Cities and you'll see what I mean.  This likely factors into the educational aspect as well.  If a Bosnian family begins speaking english at home, obviously their kids are not going to need the ESL classes as much as a Hispanic kid that only hears spanish at home, and vice versa.  That's the big complaint I've heard from teachers:  Hispanic students are further behind the other immigrant children because their parents don't speak english in the home.  And for that matter, I know plenty of people that have lived in the US for many, many years that still haven't mastered the english language.

Throwing people together and asking them to coexist without an understanding of eachother leads to a lot of negative things.

+k for this statement, by the way.

[Mr. Ypsi]

sk, excellent post!

[I know plenty of people BORN in the US who still haven't mastered the English language! ]

The 'melting pot' analogy was created by Anglo 'do-gooders' (a term with pejorative connotations I despise: would you prefer 'do badders'?! ) which really meant 'become just like us'.  Your 'gumbo' analogy is much better.

A classic study (I'm retired - I forget by whom!) compared the generational upward mobility of Jews and Southern Italians in the early 20th century.  While there were numerous differences, the single most important was expectation of staying 'forever' vs. returning home (a great number of Southern Italian immigrants anticipated returning home and therefore did not assimilate).  I would speculate that the Bosnians have retained fewer ties to and feel a lesser likelihood of returning to 'home'; the Mexicans may be much more conflicted, anticipating at least a retirement in Mexico.  One does not readily abandon a culture one may someday return to.