FB: American Rivers Conference

[Klopenhiemer]

sk, excellent post!

[I know plenty of people BORN in the US who still haven't mastered the English language! ]

The 'melting pot' analogy was created by Anglo 'do-gooders' (a term with pejorative connotations I despise: would you prefer 'do badders'?! ) which really meant 'become just like us'.  Your 'gumbo' analogy is much better.

A classic study (I'm retired - I forget by whom!) compared the generational upward mobility of Jews and Southern Italians in the early 20th century.  While there were numerous differences, the single most important was expectation of staying 'forever' vs. returning home (a great number of Southern Italian immigrants anticipated returning home and therefore did not assimilate).  I would speculate that the Bosnians have retained fewer ties to and feel a lesser likelihood of returning to 'home'; the Mexicans may be much more conflicted, anticipating at least a retirement in Mexico.  One does not readily abandon a culture one may someday return to.

In my industry a LARGE portion of the Hispanic/Mexican population does return home.  They come in the early spring and are hired by landscaping and large construction companies, only to leave on December 1st.  They head back to their native lands, again returning in the spring. 

[dutchfan1]

SK, you hit the nail on the head -- the "melting pot" is no longer. In the diversity education that I have done (I was a diversity educator for 4 years at Wells Fargo so I have a bit of formal background here) has all been based around the notion that America is a "salad" of sorts -- each person brings their own flavor to add to the overall dish. (How far is this metaphor going to go??) It's a sensitive issue. My feeling is that "diversity" (all types -- racial, ethnic, sexual preference, education background, etc.) is happening, and it is going to continue to change the face of the country. We need to adapt to keep up. Keeping things "status quo" is not an option, no matter how we hard we resist. It's all about how we cope with these changes that defines who we are. We don't need to forget or deny who we are in order to accept them for who they are.

I have always thought it was interesting that people look unfavorably at people of Latino descent, as we used to look at African Americans as "lesser" (you all have your own opinions,  I know...) It's always been interesting that people don't seem to carry the same prejudices about people of European descent. I know several people who have immigrated from France, Germany and Ireland and they don't have the same struggles as other immigrants (and they didn't know the language when they came, either.)

Again, I know that I'm usually the liberal voice on this board...not looking to offend, but rather offer a different viewpoint.

[Purple Heys]

My recent trip to China showed to me that the U.S. is what it is because of diversity.  The good, the bad, all of it.  I'll take that over a mono-cultural society any day.

Random thought:  The Native Americans were here first...the rest of us are all descended from immigrants.

On the balance I would say it's a pretty good setup, this cultural diversity thing.  Sure, there are frictional forces when cultures rub against one another.

In my college years I dated women from many different cultural backgrounds.  I kind of liked rubbing against other cultures...The menu is always more intriguing when there's variety.   8)

[DBQ1965]

Random thought:  The Native Americans were here first...the rest of us are all descended from immigrants.

Purple Heys ... thanks for the reminder of our history and our roots.

[the_mayne_event]

sk... you went to high school for 7 years???

[DutchFan2004]

SK,

I too am Irish on both sides.  IMHO a part of the Irish culture was that it could not sustain itself because of the blight.  So from that point it was a reason to come to land of milk and honey.  The ability for ones country or culture to feed itself is part of that culture is it not.  For what ever reason it is. 

DF1 what you said does say it better so far.  If we are a salad and we all add flavor we do have to be "tossed" and "mixed" together to achieve that end flavor.  That was the whole point.  Trying to stay separate was the my point.  We all add to the flavor of our society but staying separate and not blending in does no one good.  I accept everyone's differences I am not trying to exclude anyone. 

[TheOne89.1]

sk... you went to high school for 7 years???

Just a few years less than college.

[TheOne89.1]

The One 89.1...
What high school in MN did you go to?  Sounds like the one I attended....Spring Grove MN.

That is correct.  Proud graduate of 2001.

[the_mayne_event]

SK,

I too am Irish on both sides.  IMHO a part of the Irish culture was that it could not sustain itself because of the blight.  So from that point it was a reason to come to land of milk and honey.  The ability for ones country or culture to feed itself is part of that culture is it not.  For what ever reason it is. 

DF1 what you said does say it better so far.  If we are a salad and we all add flavor we do have to be "tossed" and "mixed" together to achieve that end flavor.  That was the whole point.  Trying to stay separate was the my point.  We all add to the flavor of our society but staying separate and not blending in does no one good.  I accept everyone's differences I am not trying to exclude anyone. 

that was the general point of my first post.  you tend to get more differences in culture at a larger school because they are in larger metro areas.  which, depending on how you look at it, could be the greatest difference in large and small schools in iowa, not to say the rest of the country, because i dont know how that goes.  if you combine 3 small "farm" schools, there is no cultural difference, just larger class sizes and harder to keep track of the kids.  i do understand, however, that this has to be done quite often because of financial situations.  it would be nice to keep the smaller schools open, because i think they have a better educational value then larger schools.

[the_mayne_event]

sk... you went to high school for 7 years???

Just a few years less than college.

just a shade under a decade.. a lot of people go to college for 7 years...

[Pat Coleman]

If I recall the movie line correctly, the proper response is, "yeah, but they're called doctors."

[the_mayne_event]

If I recall the movie line correctly, the proper response is, "yeah, but they're called doctors."

that is correct.... (same actor, different movie)

[sportsknight]

sk... you went to high school for 7 years???

Let me try to break it down for you:  When I came in as a freshman, there were three classes older than me.  When I graduated, there were three classes younger than me.  Add in my class (3+3+1=7) and that's where 7 comes from.

If I recall the movie line correctly, the proper response is, "yeah, but they're called doctors."

Or as we used to joke at Wartburg, they're called Jordan Atchison.

[Alfredeneumann]

I think an even better line is:
"Christ. Seven years of college down the drain. Might as well join the f'ing Peace Corps. "- Bluto, Animal House

[sportsknight]

SK,

I too am Irish on both sides.  IMHO a part of the Irish culture was that it could not sustain itself because of the blight.  The ability for ones country or culture to feed itself is part of that culture is it not.  For what ever reason it is. 

Actually, the Irish would have been able to feed themselves and survive the famine if the British weren't stealing all their other food sources and shipping them off to England.  Its a common misconception that potatoes were all that the Irish grew.  That's just not the case.  They raised cattle and sheep, grew corn, and fished.  But because of the subjegation by the Limeys, the couldn't eat what they were raising.

What the British did to the Irish from the Rebellion of 1641 up through Ireland gaining its independence in 1922 basically amounts to ethnic cleansing.  Under the penal laws following the Battle of the Boyne, land was taken away from Irish owners and given to Protestant colonists loyal to the throne.  The Irish still had to work the land and by exorbitant rents to their English overlords.  By the time of the Famine in the 1840s, the potato had become a staple of the Irish diet, and when that crop failed and the Irish were unable to keep any of the other food they were developing, many were forced to leave their homeland or die.  There are many accounts of Irish people being found dead with their lips and tongues turned green because they had become so hungry that they tried to eat grass.  In fact, there's a line from an old Irish folk song called "The Fields of Athenry" that talks about a young father being loaded up onto a prisoner ship and being sent away to Australia.  They line goes "Michael they have taken you away, for you stole Trevelyan's corn, so the young might see the morn, now a prison ship lies waiting in the bay."

As much as I realize that it isn't exactly a great academic source, the Irish History section at Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_history has a lot of good info.