FB: American Rivers Conference

[Alfredeneumann]

 if you bring in like 50-80 players a year, how are you going to judge talant in 2/3 weeks of camp with the rule restrictions now?

Also-I know Wartburg during the couple years that they had huge classes would have a seperate practice for the newcomers so they could get individual instruction and evaluated better.

Wartburg had about a week of "NEWBIE" practices. Usually early in the morning. I guess to check on dedication.

[Floyd in Iowa City]

analyzing rosters in iiac. do the numbers of players in each class surprise anyone? what does this mean for the future of the teams?

Buena Vista  TOTAL ROSTER SIZE = 93 (16 SR, 17 JR, 16 SO, 44 FR)
Central  TOTAL ROSTER SIZE = 129 (19 SR, 18 JR, 40 SO, 52 FR)
Coe  TOTAL ROSTER SIZE = 90 (20 SR, 16 JR, 26 SO, 28 FR)
Cornell  TOTAL ROSTER SIZE = 63 (16 SR, 5 JR, 17 SO, 25 FR)
Dubuque  TOTAL ROSTER SIZE = 106 (16 SR, 18 JR, 24 SO, 48 FR)
Loras  TOTAL ROSTER SIZE = 85 (11 SR, 19 JR, 22 SO, 33 FR)
Luther  TOTAL ROSTER SIZE = 83 (28 SR, 17 JR, 16 SO, 22 FR)
Simpson  TOTAL ROSTER SIZE = 116 (20 SR, 23 JR, 16 SO, 57 FR)
Wartburg  TOTAL ROSTER SIZE = 128 (21 SR, 24 JR, 34, 49 FR)

central and wartburg numbers tell a story.
dubuque as well.
looks to me like luther is in trouble in the next few yrs.
i think simpsons getting things in place but probably a couple years away.
coe coaching change affect fr class?

i know quality is more important than quantity, but the strong survive system seems to be working at central and wartburg. comments?

The numbers have dropped off dramatically at Luther as they had large senior classes each of the previous two years (at the least).  They still have the biggest senior class listed above, but they haven't retained players in the sophomore and junior classes like they had in previous groups.

I think it was just last year that Luther was in the 110-120 range for players on the roster.  That was not an unusual number during the Hefty era.

This is the smallest freshmen class in recent memory.  It will be interesting to see how Coach Durnin recruits and retains/develops players compared to the Hefty era.

Beat the Oles!

[Walston Hoover]

OK, this board needs to get going to get to 1200.
What clubs/other activities were you guys (and df1) involved in in college.

[Walston Hoover]

OK, this board needs to get going to get to 1200.
What clubs/other activities were you guys (and df1) involved in in college.

Obviously football for me.
Also sang in the Wartburg Choir for 4 years. Spent some time as SK's boss as the sports director for The One and also assistant SD for Wartburg TV.
Wrote a little for the paper. Somehow finagled may way into the Society of Collegiate Journalists and Lambda Pi Eta. Wartburg Republicans. FCA leader. Also majored in Communications and History.

[footballdaddy]

Intersting to note the size of Central's freshman and sophomore classes.During the recruiting process Coach Mac said the ideal incoming class would be about 40. That is the number of returning 2nd year players.

Wartburg's freshman numbers look better after several years in the 80-90 range to start camp and around 70 to start the season.

[Ram2]

Main_event, I think Tracker is saying that quality is better then quantity. In most cases that is true. but...if you dont have a quantity of players to choose from it makes it difficult to put out a good quality football team. I mean if you only have a two deep and in some cases one deep rosters it makes it difficult to compete, what happens when you have injuries, suspensions, etc? So having large rosters only helps teams compete at a high level, especially in this league. For example, large high schools are typically better athletically then smaller schools, with some exceptions, because they have a larger pool of people to choose from to put out good quality teams.

[the_mayne_event]

OK, this board needs to get going to get to 1200.
What clubs/other activities were you guys (and df1) involved in in college.

TKE Frat and that was about it i think, besides my majors and football
unless you count intramural sports (basketball, dodgeball, softball maybe??)
Paddy O'Rourke's on Friday and Saturday, and Monday (pool after night class), and Tuesday (cup night) and Wednesday (wingies), sometimes Sunday fundays.

[doolittledog]

OK, this board needs to get going to get to 1200.
What clubs/other activities were you guys (and df1) involved in in college.

Tennis, 1 year.  Nobody will ever confuse me for Roger Federer...or even an athlete for that matter
Pep Band, 2 years...I wonder if they still exist...and if they do, are they still allowed to play the Budweiser jingle???
Mu Sigma Beta
Around 40 hours per week for Pizza Hut...gotta pay the bills  
second home was the Dog House...I am sure WillieU or Keith45 were much too busy with school work to even know what that place was  

[the_mayne_event]

Main_event, I think Tracker is saying that quality is better then quantity. In most cases that is true. but...if you dont have a quantity of players to choose from it makes it difficult to put out a good quality football team. I mean if you only have a two deep and in some cases one deep rosters it makes it difficult to compete, what happens when you have injuries, suspensions, etc? So having large rosters only helps teams compete at a high level, especially in this league. For example, large high schools are typically better athletically then smaller schools, with some exceptions, because they have a larger pool of people to choose from to put out good quality teams.

obvioulsy if you have a larger pool of player to choose from you have a better chance of succeding because it draws out competition and practice reps, and in case of injuries you have backups.  you shouldn't count on suspensions happening.  but in wartburgs old case (90-100+ frosh) you usually loose players after 1 year (if not 1 week) and never know if they could have blossomed into a great player after a year or two of eating right, lifting, running, and practicing.  you do have a general idea of who is going to play from recruiting, but you usually dont have much contact with players after they choose your school.  they could put on 15 pounds after using your program to lift.

[Ram2]

I was almost in too many things at luther....

Lets see,

Founded a Fraternity, Student Senate, Black Student union, Community Assembly, Football, Track and Field,Work study job, local club DJ, I even started a hip hop dance group!!!!

O yeah, and from time to time I found the time to go to class!!!!!! !!

[dutchfan1]

OK, this board needs to get going to get to 1200.
What clubs/other activities were you guys (and df1) involved in in college.

Um, let's see.... I cheered for football and basketball, worked on the Ray (school paper), had a radio show for 4 years, served as Greek Council President for two years, served as recruitment and education coordinator for my sorority, played intramurals, worked on Campus Diversity, and the Communication Club. I joined the raquetball club one semester to flirt with a guy. It seems like I'm missing something....oh, yeah, and I went to class most of the time.

I also coached at Pella High, so that took up some of my "free time."

[Airborne Dutch]

DF2k4, we do need that aggression and anger but we are just in garrison and studying for our job certification. Its amazing, when the NCOs and Officers are in a good mood, it filters down to the rest of the platoon. It works if they are in a bad mood too. Same thing on a football team. Ahhh, 50 hours until kickoff!!!!!!!

[Ram2]

I fully agree with you about recruiting 90+ freshmen. I think its "unethical" do such. Your not only "monopolizing" on the market, your by taking players away from programs they could actually impact. Your also doing those players a disservice by having quality players just sit. With the suspensions thing I was only talking worse case scenario type situations. As a coach you never take that into consideration, but you do try to think about EVERY situation, when planning your season.Because you really never know.

But as i was saying if you look at the two top teams in the conference Wartburg and Central. they both have too things in common. Lots of wins and lots of players. Now look at Cornell, struggling in the win column and small roster. I don't think those correlations are by chance.

[dutchfan1]

OK, Ram2, my question is -- if we've worked to recruit them, why would we want to give your our impact players? If someone can come into a Wartburg or Central knowing that they will probably sit the first couple of years, but make impacts later on, why wouldn't we want them? We want the dedicated athletes that will stick it out and work on their games. I don't think it's unethical at all to recruit these players.

[DutchFan2004]

Plus K for the good work Storm Tracker. DutchFan2004, you make some good points, but the part about Coe and Luther being in trouble because 2/3s of their recruits drop out before the senior season just escapes me. It looks the other way around to me. I'm sure this years Seniors at Luther didn't start with 60 kids as Freshmen.
Wartburg has been brought up many times when it comes to huge Freshmen classes that turn into average size Senior classes. To me that just seems natural, that the best teams would get the highest number of recruits and therefore have the biggest losses to attrition.
I will concede that Luthers Freshmen numbers have been lacking the past two seasons. I'm sure the coaching change had something to do with that. Thats what makes Simpsons numbers so surprising to me.

I didn't make my point very well I guess.  The boards opinions is that Central and Wartburg are the top programs.  (not everyone's but most)  The average football team is 99 players in the IIAC of which there are an average of 19 seniors and an avereage freshman class of 40 reruits.  The bottom programs I listed have an average of 15 players that are seniors.  I was off a little on the math but 17 players for those 4 schools average and Luther at 28 seniors really brings those numbers up because if you drop them out and use Cornell, Loras, and BV you average 14 per class.  With an average class of 40 freshman the retention rate is well below 50% closer to 40%.  The point I was trying to make is that you need a larger senior class to keep a program at the top of the conference year in and year out.  I think it has been mentioned on this board many times that the secret to having success is having upper classmen with experience to win games.  It is not always the rule but if you want to have a steady successful program the backbone will be the upper classmen carrying the load.