FB: American Rivers Conference

[Fannosaurus Rex]

Winning will not redeem me nor will it redeem the Rams.  It will simply be a win.  And then we begin working on the next one.

It will however affirm that hard work pays off...In this case the journey is equally as important as the destination.

For all the philosophical stuff, I want a competitor.  Winning and losing is only an outcome.  It is not a definition.

Case in point
In definition by outcome:  The 300 Spartans of Thermopylae were losers.

Your case in point may have another outcome.  Yes they lost the battle but in the grand scheme of things did not the Greeks win that war because of what the Spartans did there?  


Success can have more than one determining factor.  I think that is missing from our conversations and has been brought out to some extent.  How we each define success is different.  With the tradition that the Dutch have had my opinion is that nothing less than the IIAC championship is unsuccessful.  Is that narrow as DF1 has said I don't think so but she defines things her own way.  I go by what the goals of the team are.  Having heard the coaches state on more than one occasion that the goal of the team year in and year out is the IIAC Crown.  If that is there goal and they do not achieve it I would have to say the have been unsuccessful.  Are they losers no.  I think the terms have been substituted freely here and they are two different things.  As talked about on other boards in the past with D3 with there being a champion crowned of D3 there are 238 losers and only one winner.  I don't hold to this.  

I am almost certain I read somewhere that one of Coach McMartin's goals is to have fun.  It is just a game.  I care who wins and loses because that is part of the fun.  I want to see the participants try to do their best because that is part of the fun.  I don't think the country has slipped into mediocrity because we try to provide positive, fun experiences to little children so that they might keep an interest in an activity where they don't excel.  Wars are different.  Wars aren't supposed to be fun.

[Alfredeneumann]

WCF Courier small college Preview
http://wcfcourier.com/articles/2008/10/10/sports/local/10677301.txt

Wartburg
"Wartburg has registered 18 straight wins in weeks following a defeat, and it hasn't dropped consecutive games since 1996. ... Wartburg is first in the IIAC in total offense (368 yards per game)"

Luther
"Quoting Luther coach Mike Durnin:
On his team: "I think last week gave the kids some credibility for what they've been working on. It's a little bit a payoff for their efforts, in terms of learning the offense, defense and other new things."

They like Wart 16-10
and the Norse 48-14

[Alfredeneumann]

WCF Courier Article on Luther QB Chris Reynolds

http://wcfcourier.com/articles/2008/10/10/sports/local/10677859.txt

Sounds like this kid is one CIML player I wish that didn't want to play in the IIAC.

[Thunderbolt]

  What a beautiful day!  The sun is shining, it's Friday, three of my ten stocks are green! Life is good--- well better than the rest of the week anyway.

[Old Dutch]

I don't want to be labeled a fair weather fan so I thought I better get some posts up this week.  Doing a lot of lurking but haven't had much to say. 

I read the article on Reynolds, and it sounds like he is exactly the player a new coach wants, someone to build a program around, where he can legitmately go into recruiting this winter and talk about the progrm turning the corner or at least on the rebound by pointing to the freshman phenom and getting guys excited about his team.  That is if the Norse keep playing at this level. 

[Old Dutch]

Wow, looking at the typos in that last post (before fixing them) you'd of thunk I needed those Google Goggles.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/oct/07/google.email

[Old Dutch]

To further refine my ideas on winning, I believe there is too much emphasis on just participating. Our kids are brought up being told it's to just show up, no matter how they performed. There are no winners or losers, everyone gets a ribbon for being there. I believe that competition is good, and builds character. I'm not saying that those who don't come out on top are losers, unless they are satisfied where they are. As Vince Lombardi said"Winning isn't everything-the will to win is". That's what keeps us going. It's what keeps Cornell's players and coaches coming back and working hard. If they were satisfied with being at the bottom and "participating", why bother to do it? It's the same thing that drives Central's players to stay at the top.

My opinion is that the PC world we have today would rather have us, instead of crowning a IIAC champion, give everyone a trophy for "participating".   

Well FBDaddy, I agree with some of your post here.  No matter what the circumstances, the best people and the ones who succeed in life may not always win and may not always be #1, but they always compete.   Purple Hayes said it best   "For all the philosophical stuff, I want a competitor.  Winning and losing is only an outcome.  It is not a definition."

However, there are times and age groups where participation is the goal.  I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to see little league, pee wee or even JH coaches playing to win at the cost of a young persons interest inthe game.  Guys who coach those age levels and get all wrapped up inthe W-L record are self absorbed frustrated wanna bees.  These kids need to learn the game, enjoy the game and be supported  in their best efforts.  SO yes, participation is the key for those kids.  When the get to JV and eventually varisity competition, there's plenty of time to "learn how to win"  the focus can and should certainly change. 

[Klompen]

WCF Courier Article on Luther QB Chris Reynolds

http://wcfcourier.com/articles/2008/10/10/sports/local/10677859.txt

Sounds like this kid is one CIML player I wish that didn't want to play in the IIAC.

Reynolds is very good, I wish he had wanted to stay a little closer to home.  Interesting article.  I have also developed a lot of respect for Coach Durnin in the few articles that I have read about Luther football.  It sounds like he is fair, honest and respectful in his comments.  I think Luther got two good recruits this year, but only one of them plays. 

[DutchFan2004]

To further refine my ideas on winning, I believe there is too much emphasis on just participating. Our kids are brought up being told it's to just show up, no matter how they performed. There are no winners or losers, everyone gets a ribbon for being there. I believe that competition is good, and builds character. I'm not saying that those who don't come out on top are losers, unless they are satisfied where they are. As Vince Lombardi said"Winning isn't everything-the will to win is". That's what keeps us going. It's what keeps Cornell's players and coaches coming back and working hard. If they were satisfied with being at the bottom and "participating", why bother to do it? It's the same thing that drives Central's players to stay at the top.

My opinion is that the PC world we have today would rather have us, instead of crowning a IIAC champion, give everyone a trophy for "participating".   

Well FBDaddy, I agree with some of your post here.  No matter what the circumstances, the best people and the ones who succeed in life may not always win and may not always be #1, but they always compete.   Purple Hayes said it best   "For all the philosophical stuff, I want a competitor.  Winning and losing is only an outcome.  It is not a definition."

However, there are times and age groups where participation is the goal.  I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to see little league, pee wee or even JH coaches playing to win at the cost of a young persons interest inthe game.  Guys who coach those age levels and get all wrapped up inthe W-L record are self absorbed frustrated wanna bees.  These kids need to learn the game, enjoy the game and be supported  in their best efforts.  SO yes, participation is the key for those kids.  When the get to JV and eventually varisity competition, there's plenty of time to "learn how to win"  the focus can and should certainly change. 

Old Dutch I agree with what you have said about younger players and getting them into the game.  I coached all four of my boys in various sports.  I was always trying to get the very best play out of every team member.  A good coach will try to make the best players out of what he has no matter the ability of the player.  A good coach will put the players (especially the younger ones) in places to be a credit to the team and not to put undue pressure on them.  One player and one play do not make a team or the game.  You win as a team and lose as a team.  Seeing how these kids react to a little positive reinforcement they do stay with sports longer.  One thing in my kids high school and junior high is a documented fact is those kids that were sports, band, speech, chorus and all the extra activities that the school had to offer had a full grade point higher GPA than kids that were not in anything. 

[Fannosaurus Rex]

Just remember nearly fifty per cent of the people in the world are below average.  You don't want us to lead, but you sure want us to participate.

[oldNorse]

WCF Courier Article on Luther QB Chris Reynolds

http://wcfcourier.com/articles/2008/10/10/sports/local/10677859.txt

Sounds like this kid is one CIML player I wish that didn't want to play in the IIAC.

Reynolds is very good, I wish he had wanted to stay a little closer to home.  Interesting article.  I have also developed a lot of respect for Coach Durnin in the few articles that I have read about Luther football.  It sounds like he is fair, honest and respectful in his comments.  I think Luther got two good recruits this year, but only one of them plays. 

Not too sure who the other recruit Klompen speaks about but sure he will play.  If he is OLine...it is the most difficult position to learn in the Norse offense.  If he is DLine he has some solid seniors to contend with.

Yes,Luther Coach Durnin is a class A guy.  Forthright, clear in objectives for the team, demanding and working to help young men mature with integrity, purpose and discipline.  The kind of coach any IIAC school would want.......and a great teacher of assistant coaches.  I think that  will help the eventual  Norse turnaround whether it be this year or in the future.

[LCNorse]

WCF Courier Article on Luther QB Chris Reynolds

http://wcfcourier.com/articles/2008/10/10/sports/local/10677859.txt

Sounds like this kid is one CIML player I wish that didn't want to play in the IIAC.

Reynolds is very good, I wish he had wanted to stay a little closer to home.  Interesting article.  I have also developed a lot of respect for Coach Durnin in the few articles that I have read about Luther football.  It sounds like he is fair, honest and respectful in his comments.  I think Luther got two good recruits this year, but only one of them plays. 

Not too sure who the other recruit Klompen speaks about but sure he will play.  If he is OLine...it is the most difficult position to learn in the Norse offense.  If he is DLine he has some solid seniors to contend with.

Yes,Luther Coach Durnin is a class A guy.  Forthright, clear in objectives for the team, demanding and working to help young men mature with integrity, purpose and discipline.  The kind of coach any IIAC school would want.......and a great teacher of assistant coaches.  I think that  will help the eventual  Norse turnaround whether it be this year or in the future.

I think he was talking about Coach Durnin...

Good luck to all IIAC teams this week...another great Saturday!! GO NORSE!

[Klompen]

WCF Courier Article on Luther QB Chris Reynolds

http://wcfcourier.com/articles/2008/10/10/sports/local/10677859.txt

Sounds like this kid is one CIML player I wish that didn't want to play in the IIAC.

Reynolds is very good, I wish he had wanted to stay a little closer to home.  Interesting article.  I have also developed a lot of respect for Coach Durnin in the few articles that I have read about Luther football.  It sounds like he is fair, honest and respectful in his comments.  I think Luther got two good recruits this year, but only one of them plays. 

Not too sure who the other recruit Klompen speaks about but sure he will play.  If he is OLine...it is the most difficult position to learn in the Norse offense.  If he is DLine he has some solid seniors to contend with.

Yes,Luther Coach Durnin is a class A guy.  Forthright, clear in objectives for the team, demanding and working to help young men mature with integrity, purpose and discipline.  The kind of coach any IIAC school would want.......and a great teacher of assistant coaches.  I think that  will help the eventual  Norse turnaround whether it be this year or in the future.

Reynolds is the recruit that will play.  Durnin is the recruit to Luther that won't.  Sorry for the confusion.  To my way of thinking, you have to recruit not only the best players, but the best coaches.  Didn't mean to confuse anyone.

[warthog]

I graduated with a degree in economics.  Mrs. Warthog graduated with a degree in English and her extra-cirricular activity was choir.  Today however she taught me two important lessons as we discussed our 401K, our annuities, and our stock portfolio.

1) "Just remember, we haven't lost anything unless we sell." 

2) "Isn't it wonderful to be in a position to have something to lose?" 

[warthog]

I'll take the Knights by a td.