FB: American Rivers Conference

[Purple Heys]

It's easy to jump on the "talent is down" bandwagon when the usual suspects aren't at the top of the conference.
I'll be curious to see how the IIAC rep does during playoff time to judge if the conference talent level is down.
One thing's for sure---HUGE Homecoming matchup for the Knights AND Duhawks in Waverly this weekend. Always been some pretty close matchups there anyway, but a lot riding on this one should make it even more interesting.

Agree...I do not think that the talent level is down, it might just be spread out a little more.  I know BV has had some really good kids coming in this year and last year.  I have heard the same for other conference school, outside of the big two. 

BTW:  Has anyone seen that Carleton is at the top of th MIAC?  Undefeated and looking like the team to beat.  All things considered this might not have been the worst loss of the season for Cornell

Cornell was up 14-13 midway through the 3rd quarter and for all the running up an down the field by Carleton, the Rams were squarely in that game.

The Carleton game took a turn when Carleton took the ensuing kickoff answered the Cornell score with an 18 play, 75 yard drive.  Cornell followed by driving to the Carleton 34 yard line and fumbling.  Carleton scored 1 play later.  Then Cornell drove to the Carleton 3 only to turn over on downs...Carleton scored in 5 plays.  Cornell fumbled the kickoff, Carleton recovered and within a few plays scored again for the final.

It was a microcosm of Cornell's season to date.  Turnovers on offense, being vulnerable to the run up the middle and giving up big pass plays on defense and not being able to cash in when opportunity presents itself.

If Cornell could have found a way in this game, I think the collective psyche of this team would be far different.  Grinnell was about not being ready to play.  This game cut deep.

[Purple Heys]

Perenial MIAC power UW-L is 0-5

WIAC

[DutchFan2004]

It's easy to jump on the "talent is down" bandwagon when the usual suspects aren't at the top of the conference.
I'll be curious to see how the IIAC rep does during playoff time to judge if the conference talent level is down.
One thing's for sure---HUGE Homecoming matchup for the Knights AND Duhawks in Waverly this weekend. Always been some pretty close matchups there anyway, but a lot riding on this one should make it even more interesting.

Walston,  DF1 you two have been around for a lot more years than I.  What happens if 4 or more teams finish on top.  I know the Rose Bowl Rule settles ties but what happens if if two team make to the top like Luther and Loras.  Both have never been to the playoffs.  Do they come down to head to head? Not to say it will happen but if Wartburg, Coe, or Central would tie with Luther and Loras or even BV.  Since there are only two teams that have not been to the playoffs on that list does the head to head determine the AQ?

Its mathmatically impossible for 4 teams to finish at the top.  With the remaining games left this will play itself out.  I do remember when Coe, Central, and Wartburg all finished on top.  I believe it was Central who was left at home that season while Coe and Warty went to playoffs.  Your are right about the Rose Bowl rule that did have to take effect. 

Klopenhiemer,

If Central loses to Loras and wins the rest they are 5-3

If Wartburg loses to UD and Loras they are 5-3

If BV loses to Luther, Central, and Coe they are 5-3

If Loras loses to Luther and UD they are 5-3

If Luther loses to Wartburg and Coe they are 5-3

Is it probable I don't think so but it is mathematically There is how you can have a five way tie for the conference.  With the topsy turvy season so far this is possible.  Not probable but possible.  With this being a possiblilty I am curious how it would be decided.  If Wartburg, Central, and BV, and Luther are eliminated by the Rose Bowl rule and leaves Loras left since they have no conference championships.

[DutchFan2004]

Perenial MIAC power UW-L is 0-5

What are you drinking tonight?      UW-L is in the WIAC.  Lacrosse is in Wisconsin not Minnesota.  It is close to MN.   

[DutchFan2004]

First off, the IIAC's tiebreakers are only used to determine the automatic qualifier to the playoffs.  As far as the IIAC is concerned, teams can tie for the league championship and can be co- or even tri-champions, but when those pesky playoffs get involved, someone obviously needs to emerge as the winner.

The first tie-breaker in the IIAC is always head-to-head.  So if two teams tie at the top, whichever one won earlier in the year gets the automatic bid.

In the case that there are more than 2 teams tied for first, and no winner is established by the head-to-head results, then the Rose Bowl Rule is used to eliminate teams until a winner can be decided by the head-to-head rule.

For instance, if somehow Wartburg, Central, and BV would all tie for the league lead, and each have a 1-1 record against the other teams, then Central would be eliminated by virtue of their playoff appearance last year.  At that point, it would come down to the head-to-head result between Wartburg and BV, which would obviously favor the Beavers.

Then this would be Loras going from what you described under my situation.  BV and Luther do have playoff games do they not? 

[doolittledog]

Perenial MIAC power UW-L is 0-5

What are you drinking tonight?      UW-L is in the WIAC.  Lacrosse is in Wisconsin not Minnesota.  It is close to MN.   

Could 5 Words be referring to UW-L often playing MIAC teams...and beating them?  UW-L being located near Minny??  UW-L playing home games this season in Minny at Winona St. while their stadium is being renovated???

Or could it be 5 words is hitting the sauce...that has been known to happen

[sportsknight]

First off, the IIAC's tiebreakers are only used to determine the automatic qualifier to the playoffs.  As far as the IIAC is concerned, teams can tie for the league championship and can be co- or even tri-champions, but when those pesky playoffs get involved, someone obviously needs to emerge as the winner.

The first tie-breaker in the IIAC is always head-to-head.  So if two teams tie at the top, whichever one won earlier in the year gets the automatic bid.

In the case that there are more than 2 teams tied for first, and no winner is established by the head-to-head results, then the Rose Bowl Rule is used to eliminate teams until a winner can be decided by the head-to-head rule.

For instance, if somehow Wartburg, Central, and BV would all tie for the league lead, and each have a 1-1 record against the other teams, then Central would be eliminated by virtue of their playoff appearance last year.  At that point, it would come down to the head-to-head result between Wartburg and BV, which would obviously favor the Beavers.

Then this would be Loras going from what you described under my situation.  BV and Luther do have playoff games do they not? 

Klopenhiemer,

If Central loses to Loras and wins the rest they are 5-3

If Wartburg loses to UD and Loras they are 5-3

If BV loses to Luther, Central, and Coe they are 5-3

If Loras loses to Luther and UD they are 5-3

If Luther loses to Wartburg and Coe they are 5-3

Is it probable I don't think so but it is mathematically There is how you can have a five way tie for the conference.  With the topsy turvy season so far this is possible.  Not probable but possible.  With this being a possiblilty I am curious how it would be decided.

Actually, under your scenario, BV would get the AQ.

All 5 of the teams you list would be 2-2 against each other.  With nothing decided by head-to-head, Central would be eliminated by the Rose Bowl Rule.  That takes a loss away from BV, giving them a 2-1 record against the "Top 4," but it takes a win away from Wartburg, Loras, and Luther, giving them 1-2 records. 

The way the IIAC applies the Rose Bowl Rule, it only eliminates one team at a time until there is a clear winner in the head-to-head.

[5 Words or Less]

Perenial MIAC power UW-L is 0-5

What are you drinking tonight?      UW-L is in the WIAC.  Lacrosse is in Wisconsin not Minnesota.  It is close to MN.   

I sharpest tool in shed - No?

[corkballrules]

It's easy to jump on the "talent is down" bandwagon when the usual suspects aren't at the top of the conference.
I'll be curious to see how the IIAC rep does during playoff time to judge if the conference talent level is down.
One thing's for sure---HUGE Homecoming matchup for the Knights AND Duhawks in Waverly this weekend. Always been some pretty close matchups there anyway, but a lot riding on this one should make it even more interesting.

Agree...I do not think that the talent level is down, it might just be spread out a little more.  I know BV has had some really good kids coming in this year and last year.  I have heard the same for other conference school, outside of the big two. 

BTW:  Has anyone seen that Carleton is at the top of th MIAC?  Undefeated and looking like the team to beat.  All things considered this might not have been the worst loss of the season for Cornell

Cornell was up 14-13 midway through the 3rd quarter and for all the running up an down the field by Carleton, the Rams were squarely in that game.

The Carleton game took a turn when Carleton took the ensuing kickoff answered the Cornell score with an 18 play, 75 yard drive.  Cornell followed by driving to the Carleton 34 yard line and fumbling.  Carleton scored 1 play later.  Then Cornell drove to the Carleton 3 only to turn over on downs...Carleton scored in 5 plays.  Cornell fumbled the kickoff, Carleton recovered and within a few plays scored again for the final.

It was a microcosm of Cornell's season to date.  Turnovers on offense, being vulnerable to the run up the middle and giving up big pass plays on defense and not being able to cash in when opportunity presents itself.

If Cornell could have found a way in this game, I think the collective psyche of this team would be far different.  Grinnell was about not being ready to play.  This game cut deep.

Maybe if they had a veteran coaching staff to help them?

The kids will continue to make mistakes on offense and the D will still give up on average, 34 a game, but, I think that this week is the week that they break through and earn that first win of the season.

Maybe it's because the last conference victory was against DBQ or it is time that the Karma gods smiled on us and said......what the heck, since both Wartburg and Central are not fighting it out for the top spot, BV is in first place, and Coe is losing, why not a win for Cornell?

[Klopenhiemer]

It's easy to jump on the "talent is down" bandwagon when the usual suspects aren't at the top of the conference.
I'll be curious to see how the IIAC rep does during playoff time to judge if the conference talent level is down.
One thing's for sure---HUGE Homecoming matchup for the Knights AND Duhawks in Waverly this weekend. Always been some pretty close matchups there anyway, but a lot riding on this one should make it even more interesting.

Walston,  DF1 you two have been around for a lot more years than I.  What happens if 4 or more teams finish on top.  I know the Rose Bowl Rule settles ties but what happens if if two team make to the top like Luther and Loras.  Both have never been to the playoffs.  Do they come down to head to head? Not to say it will happen but if Wartburg, Coe, or Central would tie with Luther and Loras or even BV.  Since there are only two teams that have not been to the playoffs on that list does the head to head determine the AQ?

Its mathmatically impossible for 4 teams to finish at the top.  With the remaining games left this will play itself out.  I do remember when Coe, Central, and Wartburg all finished on top.  I believe it was Central who was left at home that season while Coe and Warty went to playoffs.  Your are right about the Rose Bowl rule that did have to take effect. 

Klopenhiemer,

If Central loses to Loras and wins the rest they are 5-3

If Wartburg loses to UD and Loras they are 5-3

If BV loses to Luther, Central, and Coe they are 5-3

If Loras loses to Luther and UD they are 5-3

If Luther loses to Wartburg and Coe they are 5-3

Is it probable I don't think so but it is mathematically There is how you can have a five way tie for the conference.  With the topsy turvy season so far this is possible.  Not probable but possible.  With this being a possiblilty I am curious how it would be decided.  If Wartburg, Central, and BV, and Luther are eliminated by the Rose Bowl rule and leaves Loras left since they have no conference championships.

Okay you proved that to me.  I could not find any scenario where that worked.  I guess I did not think of that one.  I was thinking of more probable situations rather than the ones that got Central and  Wartburg back into the conference race   Oh wait Wartburg still is.   

[DutchFan2004]

SK, 

Your last post ignores a direct win for Luther over BV in my example.  Is that not a direct criteria in determination.

[wartknight]

It might be mathmatically impossible this year for a 3 or 4 way tie.  In 1978 we had a 4 way tie at the top.  BV, Central, Dubuque, and Luther all went 5-2 in conference play that year.  I don't know which team or teams went to the playoffs that year or what the tie-breakers were.  I do know Dubuque did not go to the playoffs and it had been since 1948 since their last conference title.  

1978 is also the last time BV or Luther won the IIAC.  Loras has never won a conference title in football.  So this could be a memorable season in our conference. 

I don't think there was an AQ back then, so the IIAC probably didn't have any team get invited. In 1982 when the Warts made their first playoff appearance, only 8 teams were invited & there was no AQ. While confidence was high that the Knights would get a bid, until the call, there was still uncertainity.

[sportsknight]

SK, 

Your last post ignores a direct win for Luther over BV in my example.  Is that not a direct criteria in determination.

OK.  Looking that over again, in your scenario, Luther would actually have a 3-1 record against the other co-champs (with wins over Central, Loras, and BV), which would be the best record against the other teams tied for first.  That'd give Luther the AQ.

[Floyd in Iowa City]

Perenial MIAC power UW-L is 0-5

They must miss Coach Durnin.

[Floyd in Iowa City]

It's easy to jump on the "talent is down" bandwagon when the usual suspects aren't at the top of the conference.
I'll be curious to see how the IIAC rep does during playoff time to judge if the conference talent level is down.
One thing's for sure---HUGE Homecoming matchup for the Knights AND Duhawks in Waverly this weekend. Always been some pretty close matchups there anyway, but a lot riding on this one should make it even more interesting.

Agree...I do not think that the talent level is down, it might just be spread out a little more.  I know BV has had some really good kids coming in this year and last year.  I have heard the same for other conference school, outside of the big two. 

BTW:  Has anyone seen that Carleton is at the top of th MIAC?  Undefeated and looking like the team to beat.  All things considered this might not have been the worst loss of the season for Cornell

How is Grinnell doing?  That was the game that most had the Rams winning.