Around the Nation board

[Ralph Turner]

Another thing to keep in mind about MUC is that, with all the blowouts, their subs probably logged more PT than those of any other team.  Of course, much of it may have been against the OTHER team's subs, also, so maybe it doesn't amount to all that much more experience than JV play.

Respectfully, I think that any reps by the subs in a varsity game are valuable.

[K-Mack]

Another thing to keep in mind about MUC is that, with all the blowouts, their subs probably logged more PT than those of any other team.  Of course, much of it may have been against the OTHER team's subs, also, so maybe it doesn't amount to all that much more experience than JV play.

Respectfully, I think that any reps by the subs in a varsity game are valuable.

And certainly that, coupled with the fact that MUC and UWW players could have had as many as 15 more games and weeks of practice than their counterparts over the past three years are factors worth considering even when a third of their lineups are first-time starters.

Probably why we all have them both in the top few teams in the country still.

[K-Mack]

cc: from Players in the Pros

It's not the pros but I just heard while watching the Tennessee/UCLA game that new Tennessee OC Dave Clawson is a Williams graduate who played football and basketball for them in his day.

Sooner or later, I'm going to start a board for this. For now, the ATN thread is the (il)logical home for famous D3 alums.

I have a new one too: Ravens owner Steve Biscotti = Salisbury.

[K-Mack]

Jets D-Line Coach Dan Quinn is a Salisbury guy too. 1990-93 in his bio

If we start this list, either as a running repost here, or as its own thread, I'd like to have it tiered, maybe like:

- non-sports celebrities/politicians who went to D3 schools:
- Pro Players from D3
- Current coaches who were ex-D3 players
- Coaches who formerly worked in D3 (Keeler, Chris Meidt,

And you would have had to only attend to be counted, you didn't have to graduate.

Just some way to separate out that Danny Ragsdale becoming a GA at Stanford, while cool, is not on the same list as Belichick & Goodell. Or having spent a year as Middlebury's secondary coach or getting cut from the af2 franchise in Tupelo is not the same as a guy of SNL fame being having gone to Whitewater.

Back on pages 45, 46 and mostly on 47 we were having this discussion. Would be a good place to draw a new, more organized list from.

[Pat Coleman]

The Democratic presidential nominee attended Occidental for two years.

[K-Mack]

Who? Never heard of him.

Thanks for the nice intro though. (blushes)

Around the Nation

Some games kick off tonight, some on Friday, and weather permitting, a whole bunch on Saturday. Although the path of Hanna has already prompted Christopher Newport to shut the school down for the weekend, there are still plenty of prime games to look forward to, and Keith McMillan has your September schedule all planned out in the season's first Around the Nation column.

If this is your first season following Division III, Keith is a former safety at Randolph-Macon who has worked at USA Today and currently is a copy editor at The Washington Post. He started writing our signature column in 2001 and has been across Division III in the years since, seeing the game played in stadiums all around the country. His weekly column is a must-read for any Division III fan.

This week, check out the big games coming up for Week 1, and plan ahead for the rest of the season.

[PBR...]

Who? Never heard of him.

Thanks for the nice intro though. (blushes)

Around the Nation

Some games kick off tonight, some on Friday, and weather permitting, a whole bunch on Saturday. Although the path of Hanna has already prompted Christopher Newport to shut the school down for the weekend, there are still plenty of prime games to look forward to, and Keith McMillan has your September schedule all planned out in the season's first Around the Nation column.

If this is your first season following Division III, Keith is a former safety at Randolph-Macon who has worked at USA Today and currently is a copy editor at The Washington Post. He started writing our signature column in 2001 and has been across Division III in the years since, seeing the game played in stadiums all around the country. His weekly column is a must-read for any Division III fan.

This week, check out the big games coming up for Week 1, and plan ahead for the rest of the season.

KMack...saw you lurkin and postin on the LLPP...initial thoughts would be the rpi vs. union game last one on the '86 field this year....usually thats the game alot of the LLPP is hangin' also maybe 'bart and rpi this year should be a very good game and a decent turnout for that as well...

[labart96]

TGP would second the Hobart-RPI game.  Could be for the League title, AQ, etc.

[K-Mack]

Got another suggestion for that one. Week 11 is always a tough sell, but I'll take a look at the suggested games and see if I can come up with a winner.

Meanwhile, found this classic thread on the Dose, where we were coming up with funny (well, to us anyway) potential Stagg Bowl matchups.

[K-Mack]

From the Otterbein story in What We're Reading:

"I was starting to feel like a bum," said Rafferty, 22. "Just being a normal student was not fulfilling enough. . . . You talk to guys who are 25 and older, and they will tell you they would give . . . (anything) to play again. I knew I had to do something quickly."

That's exactly why I never considered going to a college where I wasn't going to be on the team. Just couldn't sit and watch ...

[smedindy]

I think that's the beauty of D-3, that you can be involved. My involvement was radio, stats and PA, but at a big school I doubt if I could do that. Well, maybe if I displayed my uber sports geek early on...

Nah...I didn't want my lunch money stolen...

[dewcrew88]

Got another suggestion for that one. Week 11 is always a tough sell, but I'll take a look at the suggested games and see if I can come up with a winner.

Meanwhile, found this classic thread on the Dose, where we were coming up with funny (well, to us anyway) potential Stagg Bowl matchups.

Keith:
I third the rpi/union and hobart/rpi matchups... I'll meet you there if you do one of them.

[K-Mack]

Got another suggestion for that one. Week 11 is always a tough sell, but I'll take a look at the suggested games and see if I can come up with a winner.

Meanwhile, found this classic thread on the Dose, where we were coming up with funny (well, to us anyway) potential Stagg Bowl matchups.

Keith:
I third the rpi/union and hobart/rpi matchups... I'll meet you there if you do one of them.

It is imperative that the posse come out en masse for this. It is really the only way the rest of the nation could get a taste of life in the LL.

[K-Mack]

the weird stuff you find doing research for ATN articles.

Ohio Supreme Court: Kaczkowski vs. Ohio Northern Univ.

and on the flip side, a feature in Buena Vista's alumni magazine by a faculty member and former ONU player who grew up in a rough part of Youngstown, was the first to graduate college in his family and cited Kaczkowski as an inspiration.

Too random for 'What we're reading' but pretty interesting, to me at least.

[K-Mack]

Some e-mail feedback from the first couple weeks. Pay attention to the last one because faithful ATN readers' opinions & suggestions are needed on this one:

>> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>>Subject: Re: D3 LaGrange College got their first win in their 3rd season and
it was quite impressive
>> From: "xxxxxxx" <xxxxxxx@comcast.net>
>> They joined the SLAC conference this year and are ranked 4th in the
>> conference. Take a look around and let us see some good info about this up and coming team.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Keith@D3football.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:40 PM

> Already talked to Coach Mooney and LaGrange is one of three teams featured
> in Thursday's Around the Nation column, so look for it!
>
> Keith McMillan
> National Columnist
> Keith@D3football.com

From: "xxxxxxx" <xxxxxxx@comcast.net>
Awesome!

I cannot thank you enough for responding.

Subject: Thank you for the Hiram article!!
Date:  Thursday, September 11, 2008 6:49:59 PM

My nephew plays for Hiram. I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to write the article. I think you did a great job in capturing in words how those kids felt after the victory and how hard they worked for it. I can tell you are quite aware of the struggles that a school like Hiram has to overcome. They did get to ring that bell Saturday night...and well into Sunday morning  from what Ive been told!! Its very nice that those kids hard work gets recognized. Thanks again!

-------------- Original message --------------
From: xxxxxxxxxxx <xxxxxxxxxxxx@hotmail.com>
Keith,

I suggested this to the East ATR guy, but figured this could be just as useful. I've long felt that one of the biggest challenges to being a D-III fan is that we simply don't know how good some of these teams are. For example, as an Ithaca fan, seeing that King's beat Randolph-Macon 34-13, Hartwick beat W. New England 63-37, Cortland hung 51 on Morrisville State, and Springfield put up 55 on Fitchburg State made me go "Uh-oh" But once you do a little digging you see that Morrisville State is in their 3rd year, that Randolph-Macon might have been a one year wonder, that W. NE is a not great team that plays in a pretty bad conference to boot, which is pretty much how Fitchburg State is too. So maybe those scores aren't really that worrysome.

Have you guys ever thought about putting in a "Degree of difficulty" type thing when you discuss these games? You mention it from time to time in certain games, but I think it would help people's understanding as a whole to know why some losses aren't really big deals (SJF losing at Mt. Union) and why some wins aren't either (SJF beating Buff State at home 20-7)

I just think it might help people--especially people new to D-III--get a better understanding of the games, rankings, etc. Anyway, keep up the excellent work.

xxxxx,
Hello again. I see where you're going with this, and that's definitely Around the Nation's function, to try to make sense of national happenings for folks who only follow one team or one conference. But I'm not sure of a one-stop way, like a 1-5 star rating, to boil everything down so simply.

Part of the reason is because I think the perceived strength of teams can be a matter of opinion. We try to address that with the top 25 poll and conference ratings and even the NCAA's SOS index later in the season, and we try to discuss the significance of certain wins as much as possible in the column and podcast.

If you take it a step further, final scores aren't always what they seem either. Wabash, a top 10 team, beating Denison 41-27 would've been a little concerning, but it was really a 41-13 game with 10 minutes to go before two late scores. I know when I vote in the poll there's not always enough time to read 25 or 35 game stories before my ballot is due, but I do try to look at certain box scores to see if it was a tied or close game in the fourth quarter, a 2- or 3-score game, or a straight blowout.

So I agree with you about the need to more or less translate for people the meaning of these wins and losses, but I'm afraid I don't have a good answer for you other than yes, we have thought about it, and what we do now is sort of the best we've come up with. If it were something we were expected to do across the board each week for every game, we'd have to find a way to make it feasible with the manpower we have.

What I will do is loop Pat Coleman into this discussion and post it on the ATN thread on Post Patterns and see if anyone comes up with any ideas. At the least we can try to be responsive to you and more clear about those things when discussing.

Keith McMillan
National Columnist
Keith@D3football.com