Around the Nation board

[labart96]

can anyone tell me when the NCAA comes out with their initial regional rankings?

thx!

[usee]

As to the regional comparisons, I noted one computation error (not that I've pulled the original data!): the South averages for top 25 OR top 40 cannot be correct, since that added team in the South was, by definition, somewhere beyond 25, so the top 40 average has to be larger than the top 25 average.

Ypsi,

Thanks. It wasn't a computational error, it was an operator error. I fat fingered the data entry. fixed it. thanks

[usee]

The data presented gives a pretty compelling case that Keith got the order right.  Note a potential problem with the averages, however: the more teams ranked in a region, almost inevitably the higher the average will be.  A cleaner comparison of the averages might be to use only the 6 (or 8 or whatever) highest ranked teams in each region - without having computed the actual numbers, I strongly suspect this would give a very clear ranking (almost certainly the same ranking that Keith gave).

I used the top 6 teams from each region (20 out of 24 are in the top 25). And came up with an average rank of:

North: 7
South: 9.5
West: 19.3
East: 21.7

[usee]

can anyone tell me when the NCAA comes out with their initial regional rankings?

thx!

Based on past years it's probably on October 22nd.

[Pat Coleman]

Actually, should be the 29th. We get to see three rankings and they have a fourth secret one on Selection Sunday.

[usee]

Pat,

I thought last year they released them on the 24th, 31st and 7th with the 4th on selection Sunday. I am sure you are right but those dates from last year was what I based my original post from. Thanks for the clarification.

[Pat Coleman]

Yes, the season is six days later this year.

[K-Mack]

Very interesting all around. Surprised my "guess" held up so well under the, uh, statistical spotlight.

So I was reading an article by John Feinstein which co-opted a lot of the rhetoric we use to describe D3 when talking about big networks missing out on football being played by class kids, etc.

I wrote this response:

I could get with the gist of this article a lot more if it wasn't painted as big guys vs. little guys. Because that's simply a matter of perspective.

It's true the big networks are missing some great college football, wonderful traditions and the like. But aren't the people at Navy just as clueless about The Citadel and VMI, and those guys just as clueless about the Coast Guard-Merchant Marine rivalry?

Those guys would kill to get a sliver of the attention the worst Army-Air Force-Navy game gets, so when you talk about small-college football and guys playing for the love of the game, remember that depending on your perspective, those guys are just as much the big spoiled brats as they are the overlooked good kids who deserve more attention.

Appropriate or am I just being a pee-pee head?

[Knightstalker]

Very interesting all around. Surprised my "guess" held up so well under the, uh, statistical spotlight.

So I was reading an article by John Feinstein which co-opted a lot of the rhetoric we use to describe D3 when talking about big networks missing out on football being played by class kids, etc.

I wrote this response:

I could get with the gist of this article a lot more if it wasn't painted as big guys vs. little guys. Because that's simply a matter of perspective.

It's true the big networks are missing some great college football, wonderful traditions and the like. But aren't the people at Navy just as clueless about The Citadel and VMI, and those guys just as clueless about the Coast Guard-Merchant Marine rivalry?

Those guys would kill to get a sliver of the attention the worst Army-Air Force-Navy game gets, so when you talk about small-college football and guys playing for the love of the game, remember that depending on your perspective, those guys are just as much the big spoiled brats as they are the overlooked good kids who deserve more attention.

Appropriate or am I just being a pee-pee head?

Doo-Doo head maybe but not pee-pee head.

[K-Mack]

Very interesting all around. Surprised my "guess" held up so well under the, uh, statistical spotlight.

So I was reading an article by John Feinstein which co-opted a lot of the rhetoric we use to describe D3 when talking about big networks missing out on football being played by class kids, etc.

I wrote this response:

I could get with the gist of this article a lot more if it wasn't painted as big guys vs. little guys. Because that's simply a matter of perspective.

It's true the big networks are missing some great college football, wonderful traditions and the like. But aren't the people at Navy just as clueless about The Citadel and VMI, and those guys just as clueless about the Coast Guard-Merchant Marine rivalry?

Those guys would kill to get a sliver of the attention the worst Army-Air Force-Navy game gets, so when you talk about small-college football and guys playing for the love of the game, remember that depending on your perspective, those guys are just as much the big spoiled brats as they are the overlooked good kids who deserve more attention.

Appropriate or am I just being a pee-pee head?

Doo-Doo head maybe but not pee-pee head.

Yeah dude, I have toddlers. Gotta keep it PG.

[Ralph Turner]

Very interesting all around. Surprised my "guess" held up so well under the, uh, statistical spotlight.

So I was reading an article by John Feinstein which co-opted a lot of the rhetoric we use to describe D3 when talking about big networks missing out on football being played by class kids, etc.

I wrote this response:

I could get with the gist of this article a lot more if it wasn't painted as big guys vs. little guys. Because that's simply a matter of perspective.

It's true the big networks are missing some great college football, wonderful traditions and the like. But aren't the people at Navy just as clueless about The Citadel and VMI, and those guys just as clueless about the Coast Guard-Merchant Marine rivalry?

Those guys would kill to get a sliver of the attention the worst Army-Air Force-Navy game gets, so when you talk about small-college football and guys playing for the love of the game, remember that depending on your perspective, those guys are just as much the big spoiled brats as they are the overlooked good kids who deserve more attention.

Appropriate or am I just being a pee-pee head?

Doo-Doo head maybe but not pee-pee head.

Yeah dude, I have toddlers. Gotta keep it PG.

Do they know German yet? 

One of my best "squelched laughs" was when I was reading Catch-22 by Joseph Heller in high school senior English while I should have been listening to my teacher talk about Bede or Beowulf or something like that.

I turned the page, and the next section of the novel was about Lieutenant Scheisskopf!   

[redswarm81]

So I was reading an article by John Feinstein which co-opted a lot of the rhetoric we use to describe D3 when talking about big networks missing out on football being played by class kids, etc.

I wrote this response:

I could get with the gist of this article a lot more if it wasn't painted as big guys vs. little guys. Because that's simply a matter of perspective.

It's true the big networks are missing some great college football, wonderful traditions and the like. But aren't the people at Navy just as clueless about The Citadel and VMI, and those guys just as clueless about the Coast Guard-Merchant Marine rivalry?

Those guys would kill to get a sliver of the attention the worst Army-Air Force-Navy game gets, so when you talk about small-college football and guys playing for the love of the game, remember that depending on your perspective, those guys are just as much the big spoiled brats as they are the overlooked good kids who deserve more attention.

Appropriate or am I just being a pee-pee head?

Good God Mack, if you start a "John 'Junior' Feinstein, the Czar of Sports" Board, I might never get any sleep!   

I don't think you were off-base at all.  John Feinstein is the most thoughtful and most prolific sportswriter today, but this column was a bit hit and miss.  What exactly makes for the excitement and highminded athletic competition, John?  The service academy rivalries? (YES)  The tournaments? (Yes, but less so)  Any game including a service academy, regardless of the opponent?  (Not really).  Any game pitting an underdog against an overwhelming favorite? (Given that 90+% are won by the favorites, no)

I think your criticism is well taken.  John missed the opportunity to point out where the best competition/value lies: in the fiercest rivalries, regardless of the prominence of the program.

(That's why some people around here keep harping on such rivalries as The Little Three, Colby-Bates-Bowdoin, Monon Bell, Dutchmen's Shoes, . . .  )

[Pat Coleman]

This is someone who insists that the Patriot League is the last amateurs.

[redswarm81]

This is someone who insists that the Patriot League is the last amateurs.

That was basketball, right?  I haven't read "The Last Amateurs."  How does it compare to Austin Murphy's "The Sweet Season?"  I thought that The Sweet Season was terrific, and in that book Murphy describes up close, in detail the lack of bitterness, the lack of anger that Feinstein touches upon in his column.

When I'm D-III Czar, The Sweet Season will be required reading for entering freshmen. 

[Pat Coleman]

I didn't read The Last Amateurs because I disagreed with its very premise from the front cover.

I, too, thought The Sweet Season was excellent.