Around the Nation board

[Pat Coleman]

Keith's latest column is posted.

[fijidoc]

Not much love for the little giants.  But that is ok and understandable.  I think Wabash will surprise most though and get to the regional finals.  Whether or not we can top Mount Union, I don't know but I think we will use home field to our advantage and after beating Albion beat either NCC or Capital in a very tough match up.  Homefied ends up being the difference.  Hopefully Augustana and Mount will be equally abusive to one another so neither team has advantage going into the regional final.

[PapaSmurf]

My memory isn't always the best but I don't recall Simpson forfeiting the game in 2003.

[smedindy]

I think it's not that there's not love for the Little Giants, it's just that there's five legit tough teams in the North. Wabash is fortunate to host if they get through. I think that any of those top five could win the whole thing and they'd be legitimate tough teams.

And face it the CCIW and OAC have better conference footprints than the NCAC. So Wabash will just have to prove it on the field - which is OK by me.

[Ralph Turner]

Papa Smurf, the reference to Simpson concerned the (Week #11 #25) Simpson team who lost the St Norbert, which is the only post-season win by a MWC team in the Pool Era, 1999-2004.

UMHB was ranked #11 in Week #11, was second only to #10 Bridgewater from the South Region.  UMHB was also the highest ranked team not to recieve a bid.  The other Pool C's in 2003 were #6 Baldwin-Wallace and #9 Bethel.

http://www.d3football.com/top25.php?year=2003&week=11

[Foss]

Keith, Great job on this week's column. In the "teams we'd like to kick out and invite in" section, personally I liked Whitworth (at least as a team that was talented enough to be in the top 32), although they definately didn't deserve a bid this year after somehow losing late in the season yet again to Willamette. They have played Linfield tough for two straight seasons (11 points and 15 points - hey that's close for the Wildcats!) and by most Linfield fans' account, have the best QB the Wildcats have faced the last two seasons (even over Collins from Occidental, who would probably be second). It's disappointing the Pirates blew their chance and don't have an opportunity to showcase their offense in the playoffs. They have one more shot next year, with many of their top players returning.

By the way, how much better might the seedings have gone if Whitworth had not blown a late 2 score lead to Willamette? Since the committee avoids conference rematches, they would have likely been flown to Occidental, making things a lot more fair across the bracket.

On that note, what is your feeling on conference foes, in certain instances, playing against each other early, especially if it saves money for travel expenses elsewhere in the field? For example, Coe/Central and Concordia/St. Johns should definately be separated because they are pretty equal. But let's say Cal Lutheran would have squeaked in. That would have been a case of Occidental clearly being one of the the top caliber teams, and Cal Lutheran a bottom caliber team (don't know if there are any conference teams who did make it in this year where the same can be said). Would you have had a beef with them playing right away (although Cal Lutheran to Linfield probably would have made more sense) or do you think it's better to just keep conference teams away from each other early regardless of the circumstances?

[religion_major]

I think that one the NCAA pairs up one set of confrence teams up in the first round, it will happen quite regularly after that.  For instance in 2002 #2 Trinity played #3 UMHB in the first round.  Since then high seeds have played each other in the first round quite frequently in the geographicly spread out South and West.  I think that once the NCAA pairs up teams like Oxy vs Cal Lutheran that a St. Johns vs Concordia-Morhead or Hardin-Simons vs UMHB game in the opening round would not be far behind.

[K-Mack]

Eh,
I just didn't remember writing that ... and since it was three years ago, that's understandable.

Here's what I think: That Trinity team, no reason they can't do what Oxy did last season in getting to the final eight. A good team in an OK conference can make a run, especially in the east.

Do I think the NESCAC is great? Can't really say, but I think it's a fair shade above the NEFC.

It took me a couple of reads to get where you were going with that. There's nothing to back off really ... There are just some things you don't remember writing, and sometimes the reason is it was a while ago, and sometimes because you never wrote it at all.

I probably should have said I don't believe I recently wrote that.

OK, maybe not that bad. But I don't remember writing about the Old Rocking Chair game any time this year ... perhaps you sourced where I wrote it back there, and on rare occasion stuff I never wrote gets edited into ATN ... usually for the better though

Around the Nation, Nov. 7, 2002.

I don't understand why you're backpedaling from that opinion.  I think you were 100% right about the NESCAC three years ago.  Now, after witnessing NESCAC football firsthand, you've strongly hinted that Trinity belongs in the D3football.com top ten.  From here, your opinion looks more authoritative today, not less.

[K-Mack]

By the way, I got a lot of good feedback about Trinity, but I lost a ton of it in a recent computer crash and can't seem to recover any e-mail between 11/9 and 10/11.

Could killed any folder of e-mail from any time, and it took the most recent D3 e-mail ... figures.

Let me catch up ... I'm sure some reaction to suprises & disppointments is out there.

[K-Mack]

I think it's not that there's not love for the Little Giants, it's just that there's five legit tough teams in the North. Wabash is fortunate to host if they get through. I think that any of those top five could win the whole thing and they'd be legitimate tough teams.

And face it the CCIW and OAC have better conference footprints than the NCAC. So Wabash will just have to prove it on the field - which is OK by me.

Agreed, smed ... nothing easy about the top five there, and you gotta have balls to pick someone besides Mount Union, even after the past few years.

I like Wabash ... we shall see. Definitely nice line play, won't be easy to run on ... and I don't think Monon was their best game offensively, and a lot of that was probably attributable to a pretty good DePauw D.

I'd like to see more North Region games than I will be able to, put it that way. Cap-NC is my favorite round 1 matchup.

[K-Mack]

Foss,
Lots of good points and questions.

As far as conference rematches, my feeling is that there's 32 teams, let's get creative ... but then again, I don't foot the bill either. I hate to have the scenario of a conference on a particularly strong year eliminating itself ... like the year John Carroll was moved East and won it. That I like, gives teams a chance to prove themselves against good competition ... plus, it's kind of a more fair representation, seeing teams for the first time. Mike Clark of Bridgewater has seen Marty Favret's offense since the mid-90s, couple that with his team's talent and he can slow it to 28-35 points allowed ... but Clark told me once if H-SC ever gets in, they are going to hang 50 on someone who has one week to prepare for them.

So in that sense, the new matchups are good. And even in the Cal Lu-Oxy scenario you mention, it seems unfair for the Kingsmen to not see how they perform against someone else since they already know how they stack up against Oxy.

As far as Whitworth and Willamette, I think the two of them would be well-served by playing an all-D3 schedule, which we know is easier said than done. Because with Linfield, Whitworth, Willamette and PLU, three of those four are almost always having an "up year" so the conference splits its losses ... playing other d3 teams would open the door for 7-1 in-region records, even though techinically losses to Asuza and E/W/S Oregon don't hurt. Maybe Menlo, Colorado, a Texas team and an WIAC team each year would be a good non-conference schedule, and you still keep one local rivalry or SCIAC trip.

I dunno. I thought Wheaton and Whitworth was where the bubble ended ... but I would like to see Clark play. Been to the Pine Bowl actually, but not on game day.

Keith, Great job on this week's column. In the "teams we'd like to kick out and invite in" section, personally I liked Whitworth (at least as a team that was talented enough to be in the top 32), although they definately didn't deserve a bid this year after somehow losing late in the season yet again to Willamette. They have played Linfield tough for two straight seasons (11 points and 15 points - hey that's close for the Wildcats!) and by most Linfield fans' account, have the best QB the Wildcats have faced the last two seasons (even over Collins from Occidental, who would probably be second). It's disappointing the Pirates blew their chance and don't have an opportunity to showcase their offense in the playoffs. They have one more shot next year, with many of their top players returning.

By the way, how much better might the seedings have gone if Whitworth had not blown a late 2 score lead to Willamette? Since the committee avoids conference rematches, they would have likely been flown to Occidental, making things a lot more fair across the bracket.

On that note, what is your feeling on conference foes, in certain instances, playing against each other early, especially if it saves money for travel expenses elsewhere in the field? For example, Coe/Central and Concordia/St. Johns should definately be separated because they are pretty equal. But let's say Cal Lutheran would have squeaked in. That would have been a case of Occidental clearly being one of the the top caliber teams, and Cal Lutheran a bottom caliber team (don't know if there are any conference teams who did make it in this year where the same can be said). Would you have had a beef with them playing right away (although Cal Lutheran to Linfield probably would have made more sense) or do you think it's better to just keep conference teams away from each other early regardless of the circumstances?

[K-Mack]

I think the "islands" of Texas, Cali and the Pacific Northwest are their own animals. I doubt we'd ever see an unnecessary rematch in the East or mid-atlantic or near Chicago/Minneapolis, etc.

The one year Witt and Wabash played in the second round was one of the fastest and most unnecessary rematches, but the committee really did a good job with that this year given all the potential for rematch. And since the first round involved just one flight (I believe), you have to say the committee, going by its rules, hit a home run.

I think that one the NCAA pairs up one set of confrence teams up in the first round, it will happen quite regularly after that.  For instance in 2002 #2 Trinity played #3 UMHB in the first round.  Since then high seeds have played each other in the first round quite frequently in the geographicly spread out South and West.  I think that once the NCAA pairs up teams like Oxy vs Cal Lutheran that a St. Johns vs Concordia-Morhead or Hardin-Simons vs UMHB game in the opening round would not be far behind.

[Foss]

Thanks for the reply, Keith. And to clarify, I didn't want you to get the feeling that I am for conference rematches, which I'm definately not. I meant, that I might tolerate them, in certain situations (like where the conference #1 was thought to be much better than conference #2) if it meant the difference between the committee being able to pay for more flights elsewhere in the region (or even moving teams to other regions where flights might be necessary).

[PapaSmurf]

Papa Smurf, the reference to Simpson concerned the (Week #11 #25) Simpson team who lost the St Norbert, which is the only post-season win by a MWC team in the Pool Era, 1999-2004.

UMHB was ranked #11 in Week #11, was second only to #10 Bridgewater from the South Region. UMHB was also the highest ranked team not to recieve a bid. The other Pool C's in 2003 were #6 Baldwin-Wallace and #9 Bethel.

http://www.d3football.com/top25.php?year=2003&week=11

Thanks Ralph.  I was being sarcastic.  I was at that game.  SNC wasn't "given" anything.  They earned it.

[K-Mack]

That's some pretty serious nitpicking.