Around the Nation board

[smedindy]

Second, I've been wondering if the Monon Bell Game is really Division III's top rivalry. Whenever I'm asked, I always say it is, in a top tier with Williams-Amherst and Ithaca-Cortland. But perhaps DePauw-Wabash is nothing more than Randolph-Macon/Hampden-Sydney Midwest, in which case I've been there every year since 1994.

Oh, Keith, sigh....you KNOW better than THAT. 

Though when you do go to a game, come to one at Wabash. We'll treat you right!

[cawcdad]

Keith, the Unviversity of San Diego (playing against Chapman) is D-IAA not D-II as you listed in your column. They are part of the non-scholorship Pioneer League.

[K-Mack]

That's annoying, because I was just reading about the Pioneer League earlier this week and noticed that it covers from Jacksonville and Davidson through the Midwest to SD.

Sadly though, during some of the late-night stat-compiling ATN missions, my research tool is Google and the word "Division."

Either they're Division II in something and I didn't properly check for football, or I'm blind.

We should get that fixed.

[smedindy]

UC - San Diego is D-2. They don't play football.

It's confusing, I know.

The U. of San Diego is a private, Catholic School that is D-1AA.

San Diego State is a  D-1A school.

[K-Mack]

Today's e-mails and feedback (still got some back stuff that I've read and not shared though).

I'll still withhold e-mail addresses, but I'm pretty sure everyone e-mailing has been properly forewarned about their name/feedback being used publicly.

----- Original Message -----
From: xxxxxxxxxx
To: keith@d3football.com ; pat@d3football.com
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:47 PM
Subject: Full time /Part time coaches in d3

Keith and Pat- Thanks again for a great web site I have been an avid fan of it since 2000 and i am glad of the coverage. Silly Question??? How many of the d3 football teams have full time coaches and how many do not? I am not looking for a true answer but thought that could be a good story. I played , graduated and coached at a d3 program that was ALL part time coaches ( we were all teachers) @ UMass Dartmouth and just curious how and if that reflects in the number of coaches. We played Ithaca last year in the ECAC and they had twice the staff plus at least 5 guys who were considered full time football (coaches and G.A's) It was actually funny because one of the coaches had to take a day out of work to drive the film to NY. These "little" things get overlooked and a friend and former player was curious how all of d3 is set up

xxxxxx

(Actually, I took this guy's name off because it's probably a touchy subject. I know, I'm such a wuss.)

xxxxxx,
There are limitations unique to many small schools, some by entire conferences. I know at Randolph-Macon, where I went, except for the head coach, everyone else who was a school employee had some other job: Baseball coach, softball coach, intramurals coordinator, taught health and 'coaching football,' worked in financial aid office. And we had a few coaches who would show up about 3 p.m. in a suits from their day jobs and get changed for practice just like players.

We talk to coaches who double as ADs or SIDs or conference football committee chairs. I know at least one conference has, or had, limits on preseason practice that did not match up with what the rest of Division III is allowed, etc. ... Some schools just cost $30,000 and their conference opponents a half or a third of that, and others are 1,000-student schools trying to battle those with 10,000 (the size of the teams may be similar, but the resources available aren't). Part of that is just the facts of life in any group of colleges, be it Division III football or whatever.

That said, I think you are on to something in that it would be interesting to chart what the different limitations are and how they affect competitiveness. It's definitely something on our radar, though I'm not sure where, when or how we might be able to gather all of that information.

Keith McMillan
Keith@D3football.com

----- Original Message -----
From: xxxxxxxxxxxxx@aol.com
To: keith@d3football.com
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:48 PM
Subject: Curry Vrs. Fitchburg State

Kieth, I hope either team (Curry or Fitchburg State) makes you eat your words in the NCAA brackets this year!  Go NEFC.  They have been forced to play away in each NCAA opening round game based on their seeded positions in the past.  That's a big disadvantage.  How many times have they been represented in the NCAA's, seven years?  The NEFC is getting better each year.

No one will be happier than me if either team kicks butt in the opening round this year ... they get no respect!!!

Bill Price
Curry 1969

Bill,
I am assuming that was a reference to the "eat your words" part of the column and not anything I said. I've definitely noted that there will only be one NEFC bid this year, but I don't think I've disparaged the conference's ability to win in the playoffs outside of mentioning the facts.

I don't believe conference strength alone wins playoff games, and as I pointed out earlier this year, since the playoffs expanded there have been games NEFC teams should have/could have won (Ursinus 43, Bridgewater 38 in 1999, West. Conn. 8, Westfield State 7 in 2001) ... the other scores were 25-0, 56-6, 34-20 and 35-16, so those haven't helped. I think the UMass-Dartmouth loss in '02 hurt the conference's reputation most, especially since they were 11-0 coming in ... In this year's case, the NEFC champ will get sent on the road irrespective of the conference's past. Every NEFC team has a loss or two, and the inter-conference results are not impressive.

In any case, we've seen the SCIAC rise with respectable performances in the past three years, and the IBFC nearly won its first-round game last year. I'd much rather get sent on the road in the first round in the East than in the North (Mount Union), West (Linfield) or South (Texas teams). As far as seeding and road games, sometimes, them's the breaks ... Have you ever heard the phrase to be the best you have to beat the best?

Bill, talk you again soon. Best of luck to the NEFC champ.

Keith McMillan
Keith@D3football.com

----- Original Message -----
From: xxxxxx
To: <keith@d3football.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:47 PM
Subject: Double-Digit Winless Streaks

Hello,
>
>   First off let me say that I look forward to your column every week. As
> a 1997 Nichols College grad I hate to say this, but Nichols actually
> belongs in the double-digit winless streak list. The Bison's last win
> was a 35-7 decision over MIT on October 23, 2004. Hopefully the streak
> will end this weekend vs WNEC, but the way things are going this season
> it doesn't look good. Thanks for all you do and keep up the good work.
>
>   Charlie Marble

Charlie,
Thanks. I guess if I have to fail to mention anything for any particular
school, it might as well be that. Thanks for the heads-up.

Keith McMillan
Keith@D3football.com

----- Original Message -----
From: xxxxxxx
To: keith@d3football.com
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 11:43 PM
Subject: Hopkins playoff chances

Keith,

I like your column but I don't understand why you said Hopkins put its playoff hopes in doubt.  They still control there own destiny the last time I looked.  Just because McDaniel was ranked by you guys earlier in the year doesn't mean Hopkins is going to go in there and get pushed around next week.  Sure, Hopkins lost a game they should of won last week, but this hopefully served as a wake up call for them.

- Tom

Tom,
I said they put their hopes in doubt because until then, there were virtually no doubts. It doesn't have anything to do with McDaniel; rather the fact that Hopkins let Ursinus back into the race.

Keith McMillan
Keith@D3football.com

A couple more to come, I think ...

[K-Mack]

One last straggling turn of a phrase ...

If you could afford it, you would read the WSJ.

(I think that advances the joke, but perhaps was what you were going for all along.)

Anyway ...

So, Swarm, just wondering if there are any papers you would consider good?

Somehow, I'm expecting to hear WSJ . . .

The Danbury (CT) News-Times. 

Has the Wall Street Journal ever had to return a Pulitzer Prize?  I might read the WSJ, if I could afford it.

Enough of this nonsense--on to the important stuff, like who's going to get the Pool C bids?

[redswarm81]

So, Swarm, just wondering if there are any papers you would consider good?

Somehow, I'm expecting to hear WSJ . . .

The Danbury (CT) News-Times. 

Has the Wall Street Journal ever had to return a Pulitzer Prize?  I might read the WSJ, if I could afford it.

Enough of this nonsense--on to the important stuff, like who's going to get the Pool C bids?

One last straggling turn of a phrase ...

If you could afford it, you would read the WSJ.

(I think that advances the joke, but perhaps was what you were going for all along.)

Anyway ...

Thank you everybody, you've been a great audience, I'll be here all week!  Be kind to the waitresses!

[K-Mack]

Yeah, really.

OK. I have some errands to run and bags to pack, but I'll be back tonight with more feedback ... for those crazy enough to sit up the night before a game surfing the board for new stuff to rap about.

[K-Mack]

> Below is the result of your feedback form.  It was submitted by
> Gordon (nashusmc@earthlink) on  Sunday, November 06, 2005 at 10:52:48 AM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Subject: Div III Playoffs
> Age: 58
> Hometown: Arlington, Virginia
> Team I follow: ODAC, Hampden-Sydney
> Notes: Keith,
> Please give HSC some respect.  The current seniors have won 32 games and
> should beat Macon to make it 33. This year they are 11 points from being
> undefeated.
> V/R,
> Gordon

Gordon,
With all due respect, what respect aren't the Tigers getting that you think they deserve? They were a top 25 team the first four weeks and still received votes after their yearly Bridgewater loss. The Washington & Lee loss is abnormal, but the Generals will probably win seven this year. The Hopkins win would have been more impressive if they hadn't lost to Ursinus the week before. Around the Nation mentioned that they had the nation's No. 3 offense and were an outside playoff candidate.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, just not sure what else you're looking for. The assessment of their playoff hopes as slim is very realistic. Two losses is a crapshoot. In our site's projection of the 32-team field last week, which mimics the NCAA's selection criteria, 37 teams were mentioned, and H-SC was not among them.

Keith McMillan
Keith@d3football.com

[K-Mack]

> Everyone tends to blame the BCS for the mess in DI football. It isn't
> entirely the BCS' fault. I believe D3 should adopt a rating scale related
> ranking system. These would be the official rankings of the NCAA. They
> would be based on the same criteria of that currently used for the
> playoffs. There would be one change. This system would account for margin
> of victory. According to this system, Linfield would not be #1, nor do
> they currently deserve to be. They have played a lackluster schedule and
> are yet to prove themselves. UW-Whitewater would be the #1 team in the
> nation in accordance to the NCAA DIII Playoff seeding criteria.
>
> If I must I will be more than willing to prove my knowledge by giving you
> the north region's bracket playoff bracket.
>
>
>
> 1.   WABASH
> 2.   MOUNT UNION
> 3.   NORTH CENTRAL
> 4.   AUGUSTANA
> 5.   Mount Saint Joseph
> 6.   LAKELAND
> 7.   ALBION
>
> With a win this week, Augustana solidifies themselves as a #3 seed and
> would play Lakeland. If they were to loose (which they will), they will
> Play Mount Saint Joe. In accordance with NCAA DIII's handbook. The site
> location would be based off of the following criteria: Seating,
> Attendance, Facility Quality, and Seeding. Mount Saint Joseph's football
> team currently calls Schuler Field home. It attends for 3,500 persons and
> is 1 year old in existence. Mount Saint Joseph would be the #4 seed, thus
> making them eligible to host. If North Central were to be the #4 seed .MSJ
> would play in Illinois.
>
> Thanks,
>
> J.R. South

> Avid sports enthusiast
>
> PS. Please respond if you agree, disagree, or have more to add to my
> playoff picture. Those ratings are not the ratings you will see on
> Wednesday of November 9th, but that of November 16th.
>

John,
You're tackling a couple of different issues here, but I see some of what you're saying.
The BCS stinks, no doubt about it, but if it were merely a part of the championship picture, maybe people wouldn't hate it so much. In our case, we have a playoff system that opens to door to everyone for access to the playoffs. Since 21 of 32 bids are automatic, a ratings scale is not necessary to select most of the playoff field, but I think you're saying you want something better than the Quality of Wins index for the NCAA selection committee's criteria.
I like Margin of Victory as a criteria, rather than just straight wins and losses. As a poll voter, I don't crunch numbers to the point where a 2-point win is much different than a 7-point win, but I do look for three levels of victory: could've gone either way/last-minute, 2-3 scores or blowout. Our poll does not affect the playoff field, but it does give a pretty good measurement of what's going on across the country. Linfield should be the No. 1 team and very much deserves to be so. They only have a limited pool of teams who are really able to schedule them, either because of proximity or financial ability to fly to/from Oregon. They play virtually the same schedule as they did last season, when theirs appeared to be a hard schedule, and they have added Hardin-Simmons in the future to ensure quality opponents. Personally, as a poll voter, I don't punish Linfield for their schedule not turning out to be strong, as I might for some schools whose schedule is often weak, no effort made to be strong or does not play logical geographic rivals, perhaps out of fear. The AQ system has eliminated the need for a lot of that though.
You may know that there are at least two ratings (Laz Index and Massey) which use formulas similar to those used in Division I-A's BCS to rate D3 teams.
To my knowledge, stadium factors are not part of the decision on game site, except in the case of inadequacy. For a playoff game, a D3 stadium has to meet certain expectations for the press, for bathrooms, handicap access or whatever; Teams also have to file paperwork in advance, and have been sent on the road for not doing so.
The NCAA also saves on paying for a 55-player/80-person flight when possible, so it might send a 5 to a 3 instead of a 6 to a 3 if it makes financial sense.
Your North bracket looks pretty good except for it missing an 8th team.

I will post this message and response on our Around the Nation board on Post Patterns, our message board.

[Pat Coleman]

Your North bracket looks pretty good except for it missing an 8th team.

Isn't that really a key point?

[gobash]

Second, I've been wondering if the Monon Bell Game is really Division III's top rivalry. Whenever I'm asked, I always say it is, in a top tier with Williams-Amherst and Ithaca-Cortland. But perhaps DePauw-Wabash is nothing more than Randolph-Macon/Hampden-Sydney Midwest, in which case I've been there every year since 1994.

K-mack, this does mean you're coming to the Bell game this year, right?  Come to the Wabash tailgating area and look for the guy with scarlet hair (me) and I'll hook you up with a traditional Monon Bell clove-vodka screwdriver (trust me Pat, it'll help him report the game )

[K-Mack]

That's funny.

I've had plenty of invites to meet, but with a 10:30-arriving flight, it might be a close call before gametime, especially if this week goes anything like last week.

[Trincoll]

Go Trinity College Bantams (CT) to win this weekend will be the third undefeated season and 30 game win streak only second to USC

[religion_major]

Now if only they could test those 30 wins against the rest of the Divison 3 world...