Around the Nation board

[AO]

Why would any team move a division without moving their entire athletics program? That's the total antithesis of D-3. Do you  not get what D-3 is all about?

Yes, I know some programs have grandfathered programs in hockey and lacrosse (and maybe other sports) but in D-3 football or basketball or swimming or volleyball or tennis doesn't wag the dog. An entire athletics program is what is important.

Some athletic directors might have different priorities.  I'm just advocating they be given more options to better serve their school and athletes. 

[Ralph Turner]

The OAC is very competitive and very balanced!  One can make the case that the weekly gauntlet that the OAC teams run prepares them for the post-season.

The OAC runner-up usually laments the blown game that knocked them out of Pool C.

In 2011, the BWC stumbled against Capital to fall from Pool C.
In 2010, ONU won a Pool C and beat Wittenburg in the first round before losing to NCC in the second round.
In 2009, Otterbein stumbled against Marietta to fall from Pool C.
In 2008, Otterbein got the Pool C bid and lost to Franklin in a blowout 62-45 in the first round.
In 2007, Capital got the Pool C bid and lost at National Champion UW-Whitewater 34-14 in the first round. (The 20-point margin was the third lowest that season.)
In 2006, Capital got the Pool C bid and lost to UMU in the Elite 8, 17-14.

[AO]

The OAC is very competitive and very balanced!  One can make the case that the weekly gauntlet that the OAC teams run prepare them for the post-season.

The OAC runner-up usually laments the blown game that knocked them out of Pool C.

In 2011, the BWC stumbled against Capital to fall from Pool C.
In 2010, ONU won a Pool C and beat Wittenburg in the first round before losing to NCC in the second round.
In 2009, Otterbein stumbled against Marietta to fall from Pool C.
In 2008, Otterbein got the Pool C bid and lost to Franklin in a blowout 62-45 in the first round.
In 2007, Capital got the Pool C bid and lost at National Champion UW-Whitewater 34-14 in the first round. (The 20-point margin was the third lowest that season.)
In 2006, Capital got the Pool C bid and lost to UMU in the Elite 8, 17-14.

I agree completely that the OAC is a strong conference that prepares teams for the D3 postseason.  The best teams from any conference push the lower teams.  Mount could become better in a conference/division where they don't win 95% of all games.  You run faster when you have something to chase, or at least something chasing you closely every week.

[HSCTiger74]

The OAC is very competitive and very balanced!  One can make the case that the weekly gauntlet that the OAC teams run prepare them for the post-season.

The OAC runner-up usually laments the blown game that knocked them out of Pool C.

In 2011, the BWC stumbled against Capital to fall from Pool C.
In 2010, ONU won a Pool C and beat Wittenburg in the first round before losing to NCC in the second round.
In 2009, Otterbein stumbled against Marietta to fall from Pool C.
In 2008, Otterbein got the Pool C bid and lost to Franklin in a blowout 62-45 in the first round.
In 2007, Capital got the Pool C bid and lost at National Champion UW-Whitewater 34-14 in the first round. (The 20-point margin was the third lowest that season.)
In 2006, Capital got the Pool C bid and lost to UMU in the Elite 8, 17-14.

I agree completely that the OAC is a strong conference that prepares teams for the D3 postseason.  The best teams from any conference push the lower teams.  Mount could become better in a conference/division where they don't win 95% of all games.  You run faster when you have something to chase, or at least something chasing you closely every week.

Geez, they've been to 13 of the past 15 Stagg Bowls. How much better do you think they need to be?

[Knightstalker]

Under a different system maybe schedules wouldn't be determined 4 years in advance.  Maybe you could choose to play in the same conference but a different post-season tournament if you were able to qualify against some of the other independent teams.

... and if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. Or how about about we set up the world so my kids will eat food and pump out gold bars so I can afford to send them to one of these fine institutions in 20 years? Something tells me the universe isn't going to rearrange itself just because I have a beef. Completely ludicrous. You are talking about totally revamping the category system based on the long-term success of one program in one sport. It hardly makes sense. Especially given the fact that UMU perfectly fits into their conference with like schools and into D3 with a large universe of similar schools. The only problem you have with them is they succeed. I don't know about you, but I try and celebrate success and make it an example, not point to and yell about how they should get out of someone else's way. But to each his own I guess.

+k for your aunt having balls.  That was one of my chiefs favorite expressions.

[smedindy]

AO, why aren't you kvetching about Whitewater? The WIAC resembles some D-2 conferences with its state school population. However, they chose to be D-3 and we welcome them.

Face it, if Mt. Union was winning every playoff game by 20+ points and blowing out teams in the Stagg Bowl, then you may have a point. But Mt. Union, had the breaks fallen a different way, could have lost to B-W, Wabash and Wesley.

[ncc58]

AO, why aren't you kvetching about Whitewater? The WIAC resembles some D-2 conferences with its state school population. However, they chose to be D-3 and we welcome them.

Face it, if Mt. Union was winning every playoff game by 20+ points and blowing out teams in the Stagg Bowl, then you may have a point. But Mt. Union, had the breaks fallen a different way, could have lost to B-W, Wabash and Wesley.

The kvetching about Whitewater will occur next week.  You'll see the public/private, big/small school discussion then. Pat and Keith will write their annual stories about the tiers in D3 and that their is a big difference between tiers 1 and 2. The poll will be whether UMU and UWW play in next year's Stagg Bowl.

UMU could have lost a couple games. UWW could have lost a couple games. But they didn't. It seems that the breaks always fall their way. UMU wins playoff games with third team QBs. UWW is so deep they never have a significant injury.

[jknezek]

Good teams make breaks fall their way. UMU and UWW have made the breaks happen. You have to be ahead to get the game ending interception. You have to be close to have the game ending field goal. Through strength and experience what we call breaks are really just the difference between the tiers. The top tier wins those close games (UWO and BW/Wesley this year), or they wouldn't be the top tier.

Personally I think the dominance by UMU and UWW is a detriment to D3, but I don't have a big problem with it. It is a bit of a running joke that at the beginning of every D3 season we almost always know how it will end (6 or fewer teams out of 240 with a real shot to win, most likely only 2). Let's face it, less than 3% of the D3 teams have a legitimate chance to win the D3 title. And lets also face it, when ESPN shows the Stagg every year, they harp on UMU and UWW making it seem like a bit of a joke to the casual fan stumbling across the game. If you aren't a deep fan, then I could see how a casual associate would just write off the D3 universe as UWW and UMU and everyone else is "intramurals".

While we know that isn't right, it's hard to argue when we are going on Purple Bowl 7, and UMU Bowl 15 of 17 or so. But both programs play within the rules, they just are better. I don't believe in punishing people for success, and I don't think there is any way to do so.

However, the UWW and UMU folks will have to forgive me if I continue to hope, each year, that someone else finds a way to breakthrough. I'd really appreciate it if we could expand that top tier to 10-15 teams, or roughly 6% of the D3 universe. To put it in D1 terms, that would be about 7 teams in any given year with a shot to win. Probably about right. But for D3, we need those teams to equal UMU and UWW, not restrict or remove those teams to make it easier for everyone else.

Come on Wesley, UMBH, Linfield, St. Thomas, St. Johns, Salisbury, St. John Fischer, Cortland, Del Val, Montclair, Trinity, Trine and whoever else has played at the top in the past and currently. Take those next couple steps and make it so you are the team making the "breaks" that end the game. D3 needs you guys.

To be honest, if we can spend a few years without a purple bowl it will make it that much harder for those teams to dominate again. Winning breeds recruiting, and UMU has excelled like no other in that game. So someone else is going to have to take them down a notch for more than a year or two to break that pattern.

[smedindy]

You watch, though, next year it could be UMHB vs. St. Thomas in the Stagg Bowl and it'll still be "PURPLE"! 

[Mr. Ypsi]

[Please note - in case it is not obvious to all, the following is tongue-in-cheek.]

Many, including even some UMU and UWW supporters, are complaining that the seventh consecutive Stagg with the same participants is getting boring.  May I suggest a different perspective:

In several sports, nothing is more anticipated than a finals game seven.  Let's think of the 2005-2011 Staggs as the World Series, NBA Finals, and Stanley Cup all rolled into one!  Celebrate!

HOWEVER, UMU and UWW, do not 'ruin' 2005-2011 by seeking a game eight - what an anti-climax!  Kick back and relax, rest on your laurels, and let two other teams get to know Stone Station!

[wally_wabash]

If it was easier to move between divisions it would likely create more independents, making it easier to schedule against those other independents, or conferences would be easier to get into and out of, especially if we made another competitive move and got rid of the pool A bids.  If you're in bad conference and don't want to play any good teams during the regular season in order to be considered for a pool c, why do you want to go to the post-season and get killed in the first round by those good teams you wouldn't schedule in the regular season?

Nooooo.  Pool A is a GREAT thing.  If we go back to a system that selects teams based on opinion of which league is better than which, then an awful lot of teams that have had some playoff success would never get a chance.  There are plenty of recent examples when Champion of Weak League beats Champion of Strong League or Runner Up of Strong League.  It's way too difficult to say, with absolute certainty, how good a team from one of these perceived "weak" leagues is until they get a chance to play teams from stronger leagues.  It would be a travesty if the tournament turned into a exclusive club where you have to belong to one of six leagues to be a member.  We've got that system already in one level of football and it stinks. 

[jknezek]

You watch, though, next year it could be UMHB vs. St. Thomas in the Stagg Bowl and it'll still be "PURPLE"! 

I'll take it!

[Ralph Turner]

You watch, though, next year it could be UMHB vs. St. Thomas in the Stagg Bowl and it'll still be "PURPLE"! 

The 2004 Stagg was also a PURPLE (Linfield vs UMHB).

[Ralph Turner]

If it was easier to move between divisions it would likely create more independents, making it easier to schedule against those other independents, or conferences would be easier to get into and out of, especially if we made another competitive move and got rid of the pool A bids.  If you're in bad conference and don't want to play any good teams during the regular season in order to be considered for a pool c, why do you want to go to the post-season and get killed in the first round by those good teams you wouldn't schedule in the regular season?

Nooooo.  Pool A is a GREAT thing.  If we go back to a system that selects teams based on opinion of which league is better than which, then an awful lot of teams that have had some playoff success would never get a chance.  There are plenty of recent examples when Champion of Weak League beats Champion of Strong League or Runner Up of Strong League.  It's way too difficult to say, with absolute certainty, how good a team from one of these perceived "weak" leagues is until they get a chance to play teams from stronger leagues.  It would be a travesty if the tournament turned into a exclusive club where you have to belong to one of six leagues to be a member.  We've got that system already in one level of football and it stinks.

If there is one thing that approaches unanimity of favor among the D-III fans who have been around several seasons, it is the Pool System. 

[K-Mack]

I don't know about you, but I try and celebrate success and make it an example, not point to and yell about how they should get out of someone else's way.