FB: American Southwest Conference

[Ralph Turner]

How about the Al Queda? No one around here would give a rat's behind if that offended that group!

You are right about al-Qaeda, baddog.

The only problem with al-Qaeda is that it conflicts with McMurry's ties to the United Methodist Church.

One of the last speeches that al-Zawhiri gave reminded us that al-Qaeda's intentions towards infidels (Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, animists, and even secular humanists) is to convert us, kill us or conquer us and make us pay the tribute known as the "dhimmi", basically, a tax for not being Muslim.

[calhsu]

 Being politically correct is crazy.  But I'm afraid that McMurry is standing on the beach fighting the tide which keeps coming.   According to the list that Ralph gave of the teams that have kept their names,  they used tribe names.  The name Indians is just considered a white slur.  I think it is being over sensitive.  I have Norweigan blood,  I'm not offend by teams called Vikings.
The trouble is that the NCAA is not ever going to back down.  Going to the NAIA is really a shot in the dark.  You lose all you natural foes and have to go farther to play teams you really don't know.
Keep the tradition,  in fact make more of it,  have a tepee on campus,  just lose the offending word.

[Zmotion10 out on 2]

If they do away with "Indians" then they would have to replace it with something else?  That is where the problem comes in.  As an alumni of Midwestern State they chose to do away with Indians.  There was not a single mascot name that I liked.  Including Mustangs.  There was no way to make me happy except to sue and try and keep the name.  Or approach a tribe and get permission of which they did neither.  The President liked mustangs and so it was.  With no input from alumni or students. 

As far as suing the NCAA I'm not a lawyer and really have no idea what standing a college has in being able to keep a nickname. Maybe we will get more information from the McM committee if they choose to go that way.  If I was a graduate or student at McM I would be proud of how my university has handled this situation thus far.

Of course I don't find the nickname "Indians" offensive.  Same with "Cowboys" not offensive.  Seeing how the university takes pride in is nickname like every other college school I have ever seen I find it a hard sell to say that "Indians" is offensive.

Anyway, I can't wait to get football started!

[Ralph Turner]

When a university signs on with the NCAA, it agrees that the Federal courts in Peopleapolis, Peopleiana ( ) have the jurisdiction over the cases.

Any litigation would need to take place there...a little more expensive than getting local help.

As for a specific tribe, I understand that there are several recognized Kaw tribes.  Sometimes getting a consensus among the various tribes can be hard.  The Oklahoma Seminoles objected to FSU.  I understand that Mississippi College found one tribe of Choctaw who were sympathetic, and another one was less supportive.  However, the McMurry Indian heritage is based on the tribes of the American Plains.

Tipi Village has featured numerous tribes.  The Kaw (Kanza or known among themselves as the "People of the Wind") were from Kansas and Nebraska.  The tribes that were indigenous to the Abilene/Big Country area included the Kiowa, the Lipan Apaches and the Comanches.  The Tipis at the 2005 Tipi Village represented the Comanche and the Oglala Sioux among others.  There was even a wiki-up, from a tribe I cannot remember.

This is going to be a real challenge.

[Zmotion10 out on 2]

When a university signs on with the NCAA, it agrees that the Federal courts in Peopleapolis, Peopleiana ( ) have the jurisdiction over the cases.

Any litigation would need to take place there...a little more expensive than getting local help.

As for a specific tribe, I understand that there are several recognized Kaw tribes.  Sometimes getting a consensus among the various tribes can be hard.  The Oklahoma Seminoles objected to FSU.  I understand that Mississippi College found one tribe of Choctaw who were sympathetic, and another one was less supportive.  However, the McMurry Indian heritage is based on the tribes of the American Plains.

Tipi Village has featured numerous tribes.  The Kaw (Kanza or known among themselves as the "People of the Wind") were from Kansas and Nebraska.  The tribes that were indigenous to the Abilene/Big Country area included the Kiowa, the Lipan Apaches and the Comanches.  The Tipis at the 2005 Tipi Village represented the Comanche and the Oglala Sioux among others.  There was even a wiki-up, from a tribe I cannot remember.

This is going to be a real challenge.

Looks like it.  It seems that McM has taken pride in the Indian traditions on campus.  That history may have some impact on a court case if it goes that way.  I wonder how much money they would lose by not hosting championship events?  If it is not a lot then that may be a better option.  Unless later on down the line the NCAA changes directions and want a total removal of the mascot or Indian name for regular season games as well. 

[Ralph Turner]

Z, the NCAA has memos encouraging schools not to schedule games with teams that are on the list as well.  Now I am not sure what or when they would be enforced, but you know that this is a high-profile issue with them.

How about the impact of negative recruiting?  What if the NCAA 2006 Women's Hoops Playoffs had been held at HSU last year, because McMurry was prohibited from hosting?  You cannot tell me that a little "non-sanctioned" negative recruiting by fans of the respective clubs wouldn't have arisen from that fact.

[Josh Bowerman]

Ralph--

This is going to sound kinda funny, but I mean it quite seriously and literally.

You need two tribes to sponsor you/allow you to use their tribal name as your university mascot.  If you had two sponsoring tribes/official mascots, you could legitimately use the term Indians.

It might also provide a nice way to involve the two (or more) sponsoring tribes at Homecoming, through special admissions initiatives, through student service projects and/or undergraduate research projects.  Given the McQuinney Foundation's interest in preserving and studying regional heritage, it might even be an opportunity to raise some bucks.

Just my humble .02 worth.   Wish I could help more.

[roocru]

First time to post after I got back from the Texas High School Coaches School in Austin.  Largest one ever and great All Star games.  HSU had one player committed on the South football team.

#29, David Lakeman, 1A, RB, 5-9 170, Celeste

Talked to a couple of UMHB coaches.  They are still amazed at the numbers of incoming freshman they are getting.  I think the number is around 100-110.  I believe around 80 upperclassmen returning.  They know they need to get right to work to get ready for CNU.

Saw Coach Gage from Austin College at the Hall of Honor banquet where he received his ring as outgoing president of the association, but did not get a chance to talk to him.

Talked to Coach Keeling and his comments were along the line of the ASC getting tougher and tougher along with his beefed up schedule.

Not a whole lot of details but I said I would post what I heard.  I continue to be impressed with the quality of coaching in the ASC.  Not only good coaches but great role models for their kids and highly interested in what really counts, the well-being and futures of their athletes.  We ASC fans are truely blessed and the SCAC is getting a great one in Ronnie Gage.

[Indians]

when do practices start?

[Zmotion10 out on 2]

HSU will start practice on the 14th.

Can't wait!!!!!

[proudmcmdad]

Quick comment - NCAA needs to be concerned about something other than nicknames, I think there are bigger problems out for them to resolve

Second comment - The season is less than a month away.  What is everyone's opinion? I would like to see the rest of the preseason writeups for each team and our "experts" opinions on rankings (to be purchased by all I hope).

I personally rank the teams in 3 categories:
MHB and HSU as the top 2.  I am leaning toward HSU with injured QB returning, I was really impressed by him before the injury and hope he comes back strong this year.
ETBU/HPU/TLU are in my next tier and could end up in any order and any of them are capable of beating the top 2 (and I think at least 1 of them will beat the top 2). ETBU appears to be returning most of their best players.  TLU missing their offensive firepower from last year.  HPU coming back from a great season last year.  Tough to pick the order of these 3 in my mind.
LC/MC/McM/SRSU bring up the rear but all are much stronger teams than they were 2 or 3 years ago and a couple of these teams will beat the 2nd tier teams this year.  I don't know how LC will play under the new coach.  We never hear much about what is going on at MC.  McM players are excited about how spring workouts went and I think the new coaching philosophy is starting to take hold.  SRSU was much stronger last year and I hope continues to improve.
Looking forward to an exciting season this year.
Also really glad ASC is letting McM finish the season with a big win against the Cowboys (if Indians is derogatory then Cowboys has to be also).

[Josh Bowerman]

One thing that is interesting, at least to me, about the upcoming season is that ETBU, HPU, SRSU and McM all have only four home games. 

[Ralph Turner]

One thing that is interesting, at least to me, about the upcoming season is that ETBU, HPU, SRSU and McM all have only four home games. 

ETBU played at Austin College in 2005.  AC dropped them and ETBU apparently could not fill the home date.  They have added "at" D2 Ouachita Baptist, AR.

HPU played 6 home games in 2004 including hosting Southern Nazarene.  The return game for Southern Nazarene is in Bethany, OK this year.  HPU filled the AC date with Paul Quinn College in Dallas.

SRSU only plays nine games.  They were unable to fill the Austin College date.

McMurry played 6 home games in 2005.  They return the game at Menlo, and Austin College kept their old rival in their schedule.

SRSU only plays nine games.  They were unable to fill the Austin College date.

[dballa]

Also with the loss of AC it screwed up all of the scheduling and HPU has to play McMurry in Abilene for the 2nd straight year.  It's also McMurry's homecoming game this year as it was last year.  Hopefully it won't be as wild and full of turnovers as last years game was.

[Josh Bowerman]

dballa--

With regard to scheduling....

I think this was just the result of this season being first time the ASC juggled it's schedule in the past four seasons.  HSU is at SRSU and home against ETBU for the second season in a row, too.

I'll trade your drive from Brownwood to Abilene for our drive from Abilene to Alpine, if you'd like.