FB: American Southwest Conference

[Etchglow]

Official:  Sul Ross applying to D2.  https://www.sulross.edu/news/srsu-applies-to-move-to-ncaa-division-ii/

One of the conditions is an earmarked pool of $250,000 for athletic scholarships. Saving on the expense of travel will help to offset those costs, as will a minimal increase in the athletic fee, along with the expected higher enrollment. However, said Workman, most of that cost is expected to be generated by fundraising efforts.

$250K spread among all their sports is pretty damned thin initiative to go there.

Bolded what I feel is the important part lol and what I think everyone expected.  Even if Sul Ross ONLY offered their full amount of scholarships for football (36 full rides), 250k wouldn't fully fund that even since the average in state tuition is 9k/year. 

[UMHB03]

And where does this leave ASC football in 2024, when Sul Ross leaves?

Austin -> SCAC in 2024
1. ETBU
2. HPU
3. HSU
McMurry -> SCAC in 2024
Sul Ross -> D2 in 2024
4. TLU -> SCAC by 2026
5. UMHB

(Southwestern -> SAA in 2023, SCAC by 2026)

The two-year Pool A clock starts ticking in 2024 unless the conference adds another football team by then.

It doesn't look like there are any realistic candidates to join the ASC unless we can convince a couple of NAIA schools to give up scholarships and move to D3. I wonder if the remaining ASC teams could form some sort of football-only alliance with the remaining SAA schools. If BS ends up closing, they will be teetering on the edge of automatic qualifier status too. If not, about the only option for UMHB might be D2. Like most on this board I prefer D3, but remaining in a 4-team "conference" doesn't appear to be a viable option for both scheduling and playoff qualification purposes.

[BSCpanthers]

And where does this leave ASC football in 2024, when Sul Ross leaves?

Austin -> SCAC in 2024
1. ETBU
2. HPU
3. HSU
McMurry -> SCAC in 2024
Sul Ross -> D2 in 2024
4. TLU -> SCAC by 2026
5. UMHB

(Southwestern -> SAA in 2023, SCAC by 2026)

The two-year Pool A clock starts ticking in 2024 unless the conference adds another football team by then.

It doesn't look like there are any realistic candidates to join the ASC unless we can convince a couple of NAIA schools to give up scholarships and move to D3. I wonder if the remaining ASC teams could form some sort of football-only alliance with the remaining SAA schools. If BS ends up closing, they will be teetering on the edge of automatic qualifier status too. If not, about the only option for UMHB might be D2. Like most on this board I prefer D3, but remaining in a 4-team "conference" doesn't appear to be a viable option for both scheduling and playoff qualification purposes.

If UMHB decided to go the scholarship route, I'd skip DII and go straight FCS.  No reason y'all couldn't compete in whats left of the Southland.  Already have a better stadium then most, even better then a couple schools that just moved to CUSA is FBS.

[jknezek]

And where does this leave ASC football in 2024, when Sul Ross leaves?

Austin -> SCAC in 2024
1. ETBU
2. HPU
3. HSU
McMurry -> SCAC in 2024
Sul Ross -> D2 in 2024
4. TLU -> SCAC by 2026
5. UMHB

(Southwestern -> SAA in 2023, SCAC by 2026)

The two-year Pool A clock starts ticking in 2024 unless the conference adds another football team by then.

It doesn't look like there are any realistic candidates to join the ASC unless we can convince a couple of NAIA schools to give up scholarships and move to D3. I wonder if the remaining ASC teams could form some sort of football-only alliance with the remaining SAA schools. If BS ends up closing, they will be teetering on the edge of automatic qualifier status too. If not, about the only option for UMHB might be D2. Like most on this board I prefer D3, but remaining in a 4-team "conference" doesn't appear to be a viable option for both scheduling and playoff qualification purposes.

If UMHB decided to go the scholarship route, I'd skip DII and go straight FCS.  No reason y'all couldn't compete in whats left of the Southland.  Already have a better stadium then most, even better then a couple schools that just moved to CUSA is FBS.

That's not as easy as St. Thomas made it look. There were some special circumstances and exemptions that were done for that to happen. Generally speaking, you cannot "skip" DII. Though I agree. I don't get the point of DII except as a marketing gimmick.

[TheChucker]

And where does this leave ASC football in 2024, when Sul Ross leaves?

Austin -> SCAC in 2024
1. ETBU
2. HPU
3. HSU
McMurry -> SCAC in 2024
Sul Ross -> D2 in 2024
4. TLU -> SCAC by 2026
5. UMHB

(Southwestern -> SAA in 2023, SCAC by 2026)

The two-year Pool A clock starts ticking in 2024 unless the conference adds another football team by then.

It doesn't look like there are any realistic candidates to join the ASC unless we can convince a couple of NAIA schools to give up scholarships and move to D3. I wonder if the remaining ASC teams could form some sort of football-only alliance with the remaining SAA schools. If BS ends up closing, they will be teetering on the edge of automatic qualifier status too. If not, about the only option for UMHB might be D2. Like most on this board I prefer D3, but remaining in a 4-team "conference" doesn't appear to be a viable option for both scheduling and playoff qualification purposes.

If UMHB decided to go the scholarship route, I'd skip DII and go straight FCS.  No reason y'all couldn't compete in whats left of the Southland.  Already have a better stadium then most, even better then a couple schools that just moved to CUSA is FBS.

That's not as easy as St. Thomas made it look. There were some special circumstances and exemptions that were done for that to happen. Generally speaking, you cannot "skip" DII. Though I agree. I don't get the point of DII except as a marketing gimmick.

I don't know if FCS would be realistic given its enrollment size. Even though UMHB's facilities are all better than St. Thomas's (which isn't saying much), it is half the size in enrollment and has a much smaller endowment. UMHB would share being the smallest school in the Southland with Houston Christian (Baptist) which is in the bottom of the standings in most sports. I don't see it.

[BSCpanthers]

Speaking of Houston Christian(Baptist), Trinity plays them in football next season.

[Ralph Turner]

There are other sports beside football where perhaps that may be more accurate.

Even counting the other sports, you're going from an 8-10 member conference with an average travel distance of ~510 miles to a 17 member conference with an average travel distance of 430 miles.

Let's itemize those travel distances later today.

[Etchglow]

There are other sports beside football where perhaps that may be more accurate.

Even counting the other sports, you're going from an 8-10 member conference with an average travel distance of ~510 miles to a 17 member conference with an average travel distance of 430 miles.

Let's itemize those travel distances later today.

That sounds like too much math .  Oh okay, I did it with men's baseball lol.  They don't run divisions there and it makes the spreadsheet prettier....

Conference	Total Games	Conference Games	Home Series	Away Series	Average Distance	Total Distance
ASC	34	26	4	3	491.9	1721.65
LSC	52	50	6	6	421.92	2531.54

With the ASC I used an average of 3.5 away series as that is what it'd work out to over 2 years. 

[Etchglow]

https://athletics.sfu.ca/news/2023/2/1/football-update-on-conference-alignment-for-football.aspx

Sounds like the Sul Ross addition is a formality at this time as Lone Star conference isn't renewing Simon Fraser's football only affiliate.

[Ron Boerger]

SFU plays in an 1800-seat stadium.  D2?  Why?

[Etchglow]

SFU plays in an 1800-seat stadium.  D2?  Why?

A quick looks shows some interesting history there.  They originally wanted to go D2 back in the 90's but got turned down, they then tried to get into the Canadian league for college football but that never got completed, and then became the only D2 CFB team from in the Great Northwest Athletic Conference.  I guess that conference had everyone quit playing football but Simon Fraser, Central Washington, and Western Oregon who then joined the Lone Star Conference in 2022.  Kind of a strange fit but I guess they're the only 3 D2 football teams west of Colorado left?  I think Simon Fraser is supposed to open at Linfield, they could probably find a home in D3 but they'd have to give up scholarships... I don't know enough about them to know if that is even a possibility.

[crufootball]

SFU plays in an 1800-seat stadium.  D2?  Why?

A quick looks shows some interesting history there.  They originally wanted to go D2 back in the 90's but got turned down, they then tried to get into the Canadian league for college football but that never got completed, and then became the only D2 CFB team from in the Great Northwest Athletic Conference.  I guess that conference had everyone quit playing football but Simon Fraser, Central Washington, and Western Oregon who then joined the Lone Star Conference in 2022.  Kind of a strange fit but I guess they're the only 3 D2 football teams west of Colorado left?  I think Simon Fraser is supposed to open at Linfield, they could probably find a home in D3 but they'd have to give up scholarships... I don't know enough about them to know if that is even a possibility.

Yeah I saw that they were playing Linfield again, kind of stinks for the Wildcats because after that they are only playing 8 more games for a total of 9 which is not crazy unusual for them but when one of the 9 isn't really going to help you that has to sting. 

[Ralph Turner]

Also, why are these schools leaving the ASC?

McMurry says it is a "Mission and Vision" thing (my quotation marks, my assessment), that the SCAC is a more academically compatible group of schools. McM has been a Swimming affiliate for several years.

If the SCAC were to lose Southwestern and especially Trinity Tx to the SAA, the SCAC would lose some of the panache that McMurry was seeking in the move.

[Toby Taff]

Also, why are these schools leaving the ASC?

McMurry says it is a "Mission and Vision" thing (my quotation marks, my assessment), that the SCAC is a more academically compatible group of schools. McM has been a Swimming affiliate for several years.

If the SCAC were to lose Southwestern and especially Trinity Tx to the SAA, the SCAC would lose some of the panache that McMurry was seeking in the move.

Was having a discussion about the ASC and McMurry with some folks at the Leaf a week ago. They think the reason given for moving is fanciful at best. They're profs at McM and said the mission and vision haven't changed since they were last rejected by the SCAC

[Ralph Turner]

Also, why are these schools leaving the ASC?

McMurry says it is a "Mission and Vision" thing (my quotation marks, my assessment), that the SCAC is a more academically compatible group of schools. McM has been a Swimming affiliate for several years.

If the SCAC were to lose Southwestern and especially Trinity Tx to the SAA, the SCAC would lose some of the panache that McMurry was seeking in the move.

Was having a discussion about the ASC and McMurry with some folks at the Leaf a week ago. They think the reason given for moving is fanciful at best. They're profs at McM and said the mission and vision haven't changed since they were last rejected by the SCAC

+1!