FB: American Southwest Conference

[crufootball]

I'm not defending the exodus of those schools that have departed to get away from UMHB and HSU.....but what he's saying is absolutely false.

From 1999-2022 the ASC has been awarded 32 playoff spots. 
UMHB: 18
HSU: 11
ETBU: 1
Mississippi College 1
Louisiana College 1

No one else ever made the playoffs in the ASC....Austin, TLU, Southwestern, Belhaven, McMurry, Sul Ross, etc, etc.....

Exactly how long are they suppose to hang around to start feeling that success?  25 years seems like a good amount of time.  If they have a better shot of making the playoffs in the SCAC or the SAA or the NAIA...... who can fault that decision? 

I don't know what the solution is unless the D3 playoffs were to expand, which doesn't seem likely.

But I feel like we are doing CPR on a corpse at this point.

------------------

I've talked to two ETBU athletes since school started and they don't know what's going to happen.  But I thought it was interesting that both of them seperately mentioned that their current AD has already move a program from D3 to D2.

I really hope that's not the plan.  I don't see how that ends positively for the Tigers.  I could be wrong......but that sounds like like a mistake.  Especially if the LSC was the destination.  GAC.....meh.  Maybe.  Ouachita Baptist has had some success..... but I still don't like it.

Lack of leadership and vision of the ASC caused this......

I realize this is a football board but does the sport of football truly drive the conference shifting in D3?  We know it is the sole factor in Division 1 movement but in D3 is it?  Do the other sports even matter? 
While UMHB is the dominate team in football in ASC conference history; I would say in my association with the ASC they were not the "best" sports program in the conference.  UT Tyler almost always finished in the top of the ASC in the D3 rankings (I can't remember who does those rankings).  Of course they did not play football. 
But then this is Texas.

Since 1998 the Baptist 4 have won 60 percent of all championships in the ASC. If you exclude UT Dallas which moved to D2 at least partially because of being the only non division 1/2 team in the UT system that shoots up to 70 percent.
[/quote]

I think we can only get to that math if you exclude all former members as well since UT Tyler has the second most conference championships in ASC history at 66, MC won 30, TLU 19 and AC won 11.

And if these schools are leaving the ASC because of fear of being controlled by a small number of schools they are going the wrong direction. Since 1991 there has been 579 SCAC championships handed out and Trinity won 263 of them or 45%, if you only include current members that number jumps to 71%.

Now you can obviously say that well Trinity is leaving so that is better but I think it just shows that in every conference at every level there are going to be schools that are just better for any number of reasons.

[Etchglow]

I'm not defending the exodus of those schools that have departed to get away from UMHB and HSU.....but what he's saying is absolutely false.

From 1999-2022 the ASC has been awarded 32 playoff spots. 
UMHB: 18
HSU: 11
ETBU: 1
Mississippi College 1
Louisiana College 1

No one else ever made the playoffs in the ASC....Austin, TLU, Southwestern, Belhaven, McMurry, Sul Ross, etc, etc.....

Exactly how long are they suppose to hang around to start feeling that success?  25 years seems like a good amount of time.  If they have a better shot of making the playoffs in the SCAC or the SAA or the NAIA...... who can fault that decision? 

I don't know what the solution is unless the D3 playoffs were to expand, which doesn't seem likely.

But I feel like we are doing CPR on a corpse at this point.

------------------

I've talked to two ETBU athletes since school started and they don't know what's going to happen.  But I thought it was interesting that both of them seperately mentioned that their current AD has already move a program from D3 to D2.

I really hope that's not the plan.  I don't see how that ends positively for the Tigers.  I could be wrong......but that sounds like like a mistake.  Especially if the LSC was the destination.  GAC.....meh.  Maybe.  Ouachita Baptist has had some success..... but I still don't like it.

Lack of leadership and vision of the ASC caused this......

I realize this is a football board but does the sport of football truly drive the conference shifting in D3?  We know it is the sole factor in Division 1 movement but in D3 is it?  Do the other sports even matter? 
While UMHB is the dominate team in football in ASC conference history; I would say in my association with the ASC they were not the "best" sports program in the conference.  UT Tyler almost always finished in the top of the ASC in the D3 rankings (I can't remember who does those rankings).  Of course they did not play football. 
But then this is Texas.

Since 1998 the Baptist 4 have won 60 percent of all championships in the ASC. If you exclude UT Dallas which moved to D2 at least partially because of being the only non division 1/2 team in the UT system that shoots up to 70 percent.

I think we can only get to that math if you exclude all former members as well since UT Tyler has the second most conference championships in ASC history at 66, MC won 30, TLU 19 and AC won 11.

And if these schools are leaving the ASC because of fear of being controlled by a small number of schools they are going the wrong direction. Since 1991 there has been 579 SCAC championships handed out and Trinity won 263 of them or 45%, if you only include current members that number jumps to 71%.

Now you can obviously say that well Trinity is leaving so that is better but I think it just shows that in every conference at every level there are going to be schools that are just better for any number of reasons.

I did miss UT Tyler. Ultimately, each school's reason for leaving is their own and only the administrators know the true reason. Maybe there is a big enough schism between the Baptists and the other denominations in the other conferences ;p (joking...).

[Ralph Turner]

I'm not defending the exodus of those schools that have departed to get away from UMHB and HSU.....but what he's saying is absolutely false.

From 1999-2022 the ASC has been awarded 32 playoff spots. 
UMHB: 18
HSU: 11
ETBU: 1
Mississippi College 1
Louisiana College 1

No one else ever made the playoffs in the ASC....Austin, TLU, Southwestern, Belhaven, McMurry, Sul Ross, etc, etc.....

Exactly how long are they suppose to hang around to start feeling that success?  25 years seems like a good amount of time.  If they have a better shot of making the playoffs in the SCAC or the SAA or the NAIA...... who can fault that decision? 

I don't know what the solution is unless the D3 playoffs were to expand, which doesn't seem likely.

But I feel like we are doing CPR on a corpse at this point.

------------------

I've talked to two ETBU athletes since school started and they don't know what's going to happen.  But I thought it was interesting that both of them seperately mentioned that their current AD has already move a program from D3 to D2.

I really hope that's not the plan.  I don't see how that ends positively for the Tigers.  I could be wrong......but that sounds like like a mistake.  Especially if the LSC was the destination.  GAC.....meh.  Maybe.  Ouachita Baptist has had some success..... but I still don't like it.

Lack of leadership and vision of the ASC caused this......

I realize this is a football board but does the sport of football truly drive the conference shifting in D3?  We know it is the sole factor in Division 1 movement but in D3 is it?  Do the other sports even matter? 
While UMHB is the dominate team in football in ASC conference history; I would say in my association with the ASC they were not the "best" sports program in the conference.  UT Tyler almost always finished in the top of the ASC in the D3 rankings (I can't remember who does those rankings).  Of course they did not play football. 
But then this is Texas.

Since 1998 the Baptist 4 have won 60 percent of all championships in the ASC. If you exclude UT Dallas which moved to D2 at least partially because of being the only non division 1/2 team in the UT system that shoots up to 70 percent.
[/quote]
... and McMurry under Presidents Shimp and Russell (1996 to 2012) account for another 41 championships.


https://ascsports.org/documents/2023/7/19//ASC_Chart_of_Champions_06_15_2023.pdf

[Ralph Turner]

For the sake of discussion, let's call UMHB the 1st place team regardless of the year and their record.

The record of the remaining teams which have made the playoffs are 7-8 (0.467) when not playing UMHB.

HSU 1999
11/20   vs. Washington U.   W, 28-21   
11/27   vs. Washington and Jefferson   W, 51-3   
12/4   at Trinity (Texas)   L, 40-33

HSU 2000
11/18   bye
11/25   vs. McDaniel •   W, 32-10   
12/2   vs. Trinity (Texas)   W, 33-30   
12/9   vs. St. John's   L, 38-14

HSU 2001
11/17   vs. Wittenberg   L, 38-35

ETBU 2003
11/22   vs. Trinity (Texas)   W, 42-41   
11/29   at Lycoming   L, 13-7   

#3 HSU 2004; received 1 of the 4 1st round byes that year
11/27   vs. #8 Mary Hardin-Baylor   L, 42-28 (UMHB goes to the Stagg)

#8 HSU 2008 as a Pool C
11/22   at #5 Mary Hardin-Baylor   L, 38-35 (HSU earns a Pool C and then gets shipped to Belton.) (This ought to be a 3rd round match-up.)

#19 Miss Coll 2009 as a Pool C
11/21   at RV#39 Huntingdon   W, 56-35   
11/28   at #3 Wesley   L, 43-9

#19 McMurry 2011 as a Pool C
11/19   at#15 Trinity (Texas)   W, 25-16   a nominal 1st round game #19 vs #15
11/26   at Mary Hardin-Baylor   L, 49-20

#23 LaCollege 2012 as a Pool C
11/17   vs. #2 UMHB L 59-20 (appropriate 1st round match-up)

#12 HSU 2015 as a Pool C
11/21   vs. #13 Mary Hardin-Baylor   L, 37-19   (This should be a 2nd round match-up, were it not for geographical proximity.)

#11 HSU 2016 as a Pool C
11/19   vs.  #8 Linfield   L, 24-10   BX P  (This would be a fair 2nd round pairing)

#5 HSU 2017 as a Pool C
11/18   at #8 Linfield   L, 27-13   (That ought to be a 3rd round game)

#7 HSU 2018 as a Pool C
11/17   at #2 Mary Hardin-Baylor   L, 27-6 (That ought to be a 3rd round game.)

#9 HSU 2022 as a Pool C
11/19   at #6 Trinity (Texas) L 14-7 (That ought to be a 2nd round game.)

For the number of Pool C's that we have gotten, I consider the conference has received much respect.

7-8 with more than half of those wins coming in 1999 and 2000.

Thanks for the comment. With the rise of UMHB, the specter of "geographical proximity" has hurt the 1st round pairings of the ASC.

Above are the D3Football.com rankings after Week 11 for these playoff games.

Let's look at these playoff games (not involving UMHB) as if the Poll rankings served as a nominal "seeding" for the post-season brackets.

I can imagine HSU having 7-8 more wins in the post-season if geographical proximity were not the reason for tough early round games.

[Riley Zayas]

HSU looks really sharp tonight...then again, it's Albright. But I've watched the majority of this game, and I like what I see from the Cowboys, especially that receiving corps...they didn't have much returning production, but several WRs seem to have stepped up.

Getting all packed up for tomorrow morning's flight to Minneapolis and then the drive over to River Falls! The 2023 season has arrived!

[Pat Coleman]

For the sake of discussion, let's call UMHB the 1st place team regardless of the year and their record.

The record of the remaining teams which have made the playoffs are 7-8 (0.467) when not playing UMHB.

HSU 1999
11/20   vs. Washington U.   W, 28-21   
11/27   vs. Washington and Jefferson   W, 51-3   
12/4   at Trinity (Texas)   L, 40-33

HSU 2000
11/18   bye
11/25   vs. McDaniel •   W, 32-10   
12/2   vs. Trinity (Texas)   W, 33-30   
12/9   vs. St. John's   L, 38-14

HSU 2001
11/17   vs. Wittenberg   L, 38-35

ETBU 2003
11/22   vs. Trinity (Texas)   W, 42-41   
11/29   at Lycoming   L, 13-7   

#3 HSU 2004; received 1 of the 4 1st round byes that year
11/27   vs. #8 Mary Hardin-Baylor   L, 42-28 (UMHB goes to the Stagg)

#8 HSU 2008 as a Pool C
11/22   at #5 Mary Hardin-Baylor   L, 38-35 (HSU earns a Pool C and then gets shipped to Belton.) (This ought to be a 3rd round match-up.)

#19 Miss Coll 2009 as a Pool C
11/21   at RV#39 Huntingdon   W, 56-35   
11/28   at #3 Wesley   L, 43-9

#19 McMurry 2011 as a Pool C
11/19   at#15 Trinity (Texas)   W, 25-16   a nominal 1st round game #19 vs #15
11/26   at Mary Hardin-Baylor   L, 49-20

#23 LaCollege 2012 as a Pool C
11/17   vs. #2 UMHB L 59-20 (appropriate 1st round match-up)

#12 HSU 2015 as a Pool C
11/21   vs. #13 Mary Hardin-Baylor   L, 37-19   (This should be a 2nd round match-up, were it not for geographical proximity.)

#11 HSU 2016 as a Pool C
11/19   vs.  #8 Linfield   L, 24-10   BX P  (This would be a fair 2nd round pairing)

#5 HSU 2017 as a Pool C
11/18   at #8 Linfield   L, 27-13   (That ought to be a 3rd round game)

#7 HSU 2018 as a Pool C
11/17   at #2 Mary Hardin-Baylor   L, 27-6 (That ought to be a 3rd round game.)

#9 HSU 2022 as a Pool C
11/19   at #6 Trinity (Texas) L 14-7 (That ought to be a 2nd round game.)

For the number of Pool C's that we have gotten, I consider the conference has received much respect.

7-8 with more than half of those wins coming in 1999 and 2000.

Thanks for the comment. With the rise of UMHB, or Linfield or Trinity or even Wesley the specter of "geographical proximity" has hurt the 1st round pairings of the ASC.

Edits in bold.

[cover2]

Based on the early going, UMHB hasn't fixed the snapping issues!

[UMHB03]

It's looking like the Harmon era may be short lived. I don't think I've ever seen a team at any level that is this undisciplined and unprepared. They look like they've never set foot on a football field.

You could find better long snapping at the local junior high. The OL just stands around. The DBs don't cover anyone, and then miss tackles after giving up the catch. Just embarrassing.

Forget about the playoffs, this team will be very lucky to finish above .500. From National Champs to struggling for mediocrity in just two seasons. Sad.

[Etchglow]

I don't even...

[TheChucker]

At the UMHB @ UWRF game. In the first 19 minutes of play, UMHB has spotted RF two muffed punts near their own goal line, 2 fumbles near their own goal line, and an interception deep in their own territory. On top of that, a roughing call on an o-lineman, poor choices on kickoff returns, leaving RF receivers wide open, bad snaps to the QB, poor tackling and on. Never seen a Cru team this unprepared.

[zipmac22]

I think UMHB03 summed it up quite well. If The Cru continues playing like this HSU and ETBU will battle it out for the AQ for the playoffs. UMHB will be lucky if they finish up the season above .500!

It's looking like the Harmon era may be short lived. I don't think I've ever seen a team at any level that is this undisciplined and unprepared. They look like they've never set foot on a football field.

You could find better long snapping at the local junior high. The OL just stands around. The DBs don't cover anyone, and then miss tackles after giving up the catch. Just embarrassing.

Forget about the playoffs, this team will be very lucky to finish above .500. From National Champs to struggling for mediocrity in just two seasons. Sad.

[UMHB03]

The OL doesn't look like they're even trying to block anyone. Defenders just running through the them like they aren't even there.

[Crubacker]

Andy Padron play calling sucks!

[Crubacker]

They look terrible

[umhbalum]

If this same team shows up next weeks it's going to be ugly