FB: American Southwest Conference

[crufootball]

Is the reason why UMHB is behind Wesley in the latest regional ranking due to the fact that the ASC is not as good this year? Or is it for some other reason? I know the Cru just lost bad, but the loss was to a much better opponent than Wesleys loss.

[Ralph Turner]

Crufootball, most accurately, I think that the OWP and the OOWP are the difference this year as to why UMHB is behind Wesley.  (The conference does not have as many good non-conference wins as last year.)

Also, the CNU win this year does not seem to as valuable as the CNU loss last year.

Point differential is not a stated criterion.

[Pat Coleman]

Ralph,  where do you see UMHB being seeded as of today?

I'm not Ralph, but I'll respond anyways.

My guess is that with the current state of things, UMHB would be seeded number 2 in the south region.  Yes, they lost to the nation's #3 team (though technically polls don't come into consideration) and it was an out of region game, but they still have a 1 in the loss column. 

It is a regional game.

[drinkxs.com]

So based off of the NCAA criteria for regional rankings, am I to assume that it did UMHB no good to schedule a SUPER quality opponent like UWW, taking a chance for a loss? vs playing a competetive opponent with a better chance of winning? Please explain to me the advantage of taking a chance on UWW. I realize that if we win, we get a possible #2 seed in the tournament.

I also thought that UWW got a bad deal when they scheduled and loss to a D2 school, causing them to move from #2 to #3. Quite honestly, cannot see why they were bumped down for the D2 loss at the time? If you remember, they were ranked ahead of the CRU before that loss.

[Pat Coleman]

Because St. Cloud State is not all that good and the No. 2 team in Division III should've beaten them.

[Ralph Turner]

So based off of the NCAA criteria for regional rankings, am I to assume that it did UMHB no good to schedule a SUPER quality opponent like UWW, taking a chance for a loss? vs playing a competitive opponent with a better chance of winning? Please explain to me the advantage of taking a chance on UWW. I realize that if we win, we get a possible #1 or #2 seed in the tournament.

drinkxs, UMHB is in a tough situation.  Who were they going to play if they did not have the game versus UWW?  On the "Open Dates" board, UMHB is looking for a game on Sep 6, Sep 13 and October 25  If you will look at the Open Dates board, you can schedule Wesley who is looking for a game on Sep 6th or October 25th as well.  UMHB apparently has not filled either of its non-conference dates in 2008.  You get the OWP of UWW and the OOWP from the strongest conference in D-III.  If you don't want to play an in-region game, then I recommend that you try to find an opponent in the OAC, or Rowan or Cortland from the NJAC.  Playing a D-II doesn't help any, unless you can get a game with Tarleton or Angelo State so you don't break your travel budget.  Isn't having 4 home dates in the playoffs something that you would like to do, especially if every CRU fan thinks that they can do it?


I also thought that UWW got a bad deal when they scheduled and loss to a D2 school, causing them to move from #2 to #3. Quite honestly, cannot see why they were bumped down for the D2 loss at the time? If you remember, they were ranked ahead of the CRU before that loss.

Drinkxs, please don't confuse the Top 25 Rankings with the NCAA South Evaluation Region Rankings.  If you look at the Regional Rankings for the West Region, you will see that UWW is considered to be undefeated.

Sep 06, 2008     UW-La Crosse     Notes
Sep 06, 2008    UW-Stout    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    Wesley    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    North Carolina Wesleyan    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    Wooster    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    Luther    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    Concordia (Wis.)    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    Olivet    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    Juniata    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    UW-River Falls    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    Delaware Valley    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    UW-Stevens Point    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    Marietta    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    St. Vincent    Provisional
Sep 06, 2008    Rochester    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    UW-Eau Claire    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    Menlo    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    Hardin-Simmons    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    Wartburg    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    Carthage    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    Linfield    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    Mary Hardin-Baylor    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    Gallaudet    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    Wooster    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    King's    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    Western Connecticut    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    East Texas Baptist    Notes
Sep 06, 2008    MacMurray    Notes

Sep 13, 2008     UW-La Crosse     Notes
Sep 13, 2008    UW-Stout    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Salisbury    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    North Carolina Wesleyan    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Union    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Concordia (Wis.)    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Gallaudet    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    UW-Oshkosh    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Olivet    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Colorado College    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Delaware Valley    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    King's    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Widener    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Eureka    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Alfred    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Alfred    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Maryville (Tenn.)    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    UW-Oshkosh    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    UW-Eau Claire    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Rockford    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Whitworth    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Tri-State    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Hardin-Simmons    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Pomona-Pitzer    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Linfield    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Mary Hardin-Baylor    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    North Central    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Western Connecticut    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    St. Scholastica    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Bridgewater State    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    East Texas Baptist    Notes
Sep 13, 2008    Lakeland    Notes

I have stricken the teams that are not in-region on those 2 dates, so you can take your pick.

You don't have too many fans crying too hard about UMHB's plight.  They would trade their scheduling benefits for those championship rings that the CRU are wearing. 

[Ralph Turner]

With 7 Pool C bids, I think that it is worthwhile for a good team to double its chances.

Play quality in-region non-conference games.

If you win them, you get seeded higher.

If you win and don't win the conference, then you are still in good shape for a Pool C bid.

If you lose them, then you can still win the conference.

When the selections come out, you can look at the Pool C teams and see that they beat quality in-region non-conference teams.  That was what the 8-10 pages of posting on the SCAC board was all about in early September.   I strongly contend that if Millsaps beats Miss College, then they finish in-region 9-1 and get a Pool C bid!

If HSU had beaten Linfield (and Linfield wins the NWC and gets a Pool B/C bid) and HSU had not lost any other games except UMHB, then HSU would be in strong contention among the 2-loss teams for that last Pool C bid.   

[DPU3619]

Well done, Ralph.  +1

I agree for the most part.

I'll contribute something worthwhile since you brought up HSU.  The same point you made about Millsaps does apply, but at the same time, what if they went 9-1 with almost any schedule? Who knows what we'd be saying about them if they had played some of the teams that their conference foes were scheduling. (I see you over there Huntingdon and Austin.)

They'd sure have a lot better playoff chance than they have right now, that's for sure.

[Ralph Turner]

Well done, Ralph.  +1

I agree for the most part.

I'll contribute something worthwhile since you brought up HSU.  The same point you made about Millsaps does apply, but at the same time, what if they went 9-1 with almost any schedule? Who knows what we'd be saying about them if they had played some of the teams that their conference foes were scheduling. (I see you over there Huntingdon and Austin.)

They'd sure have a lot better playoff chance than they have right now, that's for sure.

Thanks Wes.

The part about Huntingdon and Austin College is that they probably don't want to schedule HSU.  HC's OWP, which becomes McMurry's OOWP, is not as good as Linfield's.  And, Linfield is reginally ranked.

DePauw has a good schedule.  They will have 8 conference games, the "in-Region" Monon Bell game with Wabash (always fights  ), and then can figure out what type of opponent it wants for the 10th game.

I am waiting for another ASC team to add football (Concordia when it moves to the new campus).   

So the WIAC's and the top tier of other D-3 schools (Wesley, UMHB, HSU, Linfield, Willamette) end up playing one another. 

[jaypeter]

Ralph,  where do you see UMHB being seeded as of today?

I'm not Ralph, but I'll respond anyways.

My guess is that with the current state of things, UMHB would be seeded number 2 in the south region.  Yes, they lost to the nation's #3 team (though technically polls don't come into consideration) and it was an out of region game, but they still have a 1 in the loss column. 

It is a regional game.

You know, I saw the listing of regions after I posted and almost came back to change it.  I was thinking of regions as based on the way the brackets are typically worked out.  I hadn't realized the NCAA uses different "Administrative Regions".  At least it was Pat that called me out, and not someone who never posts!

jaypeter

[Bill McCabe]

I think UMHB being 3rd in the regional rankings is about right.  However, I don't believe W&J is the best team in the South.  Wesley is a good #2.  Being 3rd should get UMHB 2 home games in the playoffs. 

[Ralph Turner]

Bill, I draw the bracket with the #1 team getting home field advantage for the first 3 games, #2 getting home field advantage in the first two games and #3 and #4 getting to host first round games.

In the perfect bracket, if #2 Wesley were to lose to #7 RMC??, then UMHB might host the second round game.

Otherwise, I think that UMHB goes on the road, if they win the first round game, which I think is versus Trinity.

[used2b]

Does anyone think that Wesley or WJ or anyone else for that matter should be ranked above UMHB in the south? I think this is garbage.
-UMHB is by far the best team in the south. UMHB should host this thing throughout the south region playoffs.
- I dont think Wesley can get through North Carolina Wesleyan a second time. I guess b/c they have beaten UMHB in the past, some might say they deserve to be the highest ranked team. I predict UMHB to roll through the south, "like crap through a goose"(George Patton).
- I am not a UMHB fan. I hate them IN conference play. However, this eastern dominated D3 thinking needs to stop. I think UMHB is much better than anyone else in the south. (I'll take North Carolina Wesleyan as my upset sleeper still; having seen them play this year).

[Ralph Turner]

Does anyone think that Wesley or WJ or anyone else for that matter should be ranked above UMHB in the south? I think this is garbage.
-UMHB is by far the best team in the south. UMHB should host this thing throughout the south region playoffs.
- I dont think Wesley can get through North Carolina Wesleyan a second time. I guess b/c they have beaten UMHB in the past, some might say they deserve to be the highest ranked team. I predict UMHB to roll through the south, "like crap through a goose"(George Patton).
- I am not a UMHB fan. I hate them IN conference play. However, this eastern dominated D3 thinking needs to stop. I think UMHB is much better than anyone else in the south. (I'll take North Carolina Wesleyan as my upset sleeper still; having seen them play this year).

used2b, I agree with your skepticism about W&J.

For whatever reason, W&J does not match-up well with Texas teams.

However, you cannot say the same for UMHB versus Wesley.  Wesley has beaten UMHB both "home and away."

Finally, the NCAA Committee is asked to evaluate the South Region teams by these criteria, which is different from a Top 25 poll ballot.

[Sender]

The reason UMHB does not match up against Wesley is they have that monster in the middle, Robinson I think, that will mess up a running team when a guy is 2 yards in the backfield every play.