FB: American Southwest Conference

[CruAlum39]

I looked up the ruling for the kickoff on the online NCAA rule book.  It states the the only way team a (kicking team) can recover the ball from team b (receiving team) are as follows...

1). The ball comes in contact with team b and team a recovers.

2). The ball crosses the restraining line (ten yards from where the ball is kicked), and stays beyond the restraining line. 

So even if the the ball had landed beyond at the 42, if it bounced back behind the restraint line and was not touched by UWW, then it would be UWW's ball wherever UMHB recovered it.

[headlinesman]

No disrespect intended, but why didn't you include number three in your rule recitation?  6-1-3-a of the NCAA football rules says that "No Team A player may touch a free kicked ball until after:
1.  It touches a Team B player (with certain exceptions);
2.  It breaks the plane of and remains beyond Team B's restraining line (with certain exceptions), OR,
3.  It touches any player, the ground, an official or anything else beyond Team B's restraining line.
Thereafter, all players of Team A become eligible to touch, recover or catch the kick.
Had it struck the ground at the 42, it would have been the Cru's ball.  period.

[CruAlum39]

Sorry, must have missed that when I was reading and didn't see necessary to put it.  But I guess I should have.

[Bill McCabe]

Sorry, must have missed that when I was reading and didn't see necessary to put it.  But I guess I should have.

That was the strangest play I've ever seen.  Nobody seemed to know what to do.  The kicker could have caught it in the air.  If it was illegal touching, why wasn't it kicked again?

[CruAlum39]

Free Kick Caught or Recovered

ARTICLE 6. a. If a free kick is caught or recovered by a player of the receiving
team, the ball continues in play (Exceptions: Rules 4-1-3-g, 6-1-7, and 6-5-1 and
2). If caught or recovered by a player of the kicking team, the ball becomes dead
(A.R. 4-1-3-II and A.R. 6-1-6-I).

To answer your question Bill, and I haven't looked this up in the rule book, but I think they did away with the rule that you are penalized for illegal touching but allowed to kick again.  I'm pretty sure this was due to the fact that you used to be able to kick an onside kick, illegally touch it as the kicking team, get penalized, but still have the opportunity to try the onside kick again.

Once again this is just what I think, I have not looked this up in the rule book.

[CruAlum51]

that kick-off was the weirdest play i had ever seen.  i do think from that point on in the game it really broke the Cru's back and the game was decided then.

[cowboyfan]

I would disagree with the notion that teams from a certain area are better than teams from another area. UMHB has proved that they could probably beat about 230+ DIII teams no matter where they are from. Mt. Union and UWW have both proved to just be better than everyone else and I can live with that.... at least till next season 

Crufootball,

I agree. I think UMHB has proven that they are a quality program (despite saturday's outcome). They played well this season despite having to overcome Massive injuries. There is nothing to hang your heads about in my opinion. I think you can play and have played with the best and that has earned respect from others in the conference and around the nation. From this cowboy fan thanks for representing our conference so well.

[Sader4life]

With or without the kicking play UMHB just got beat on Saturday, they didnt show up to play and that's what happens. UW-Whitewater was the better team and the best team won on Saturday hats off to the Warhawks and good luck in Salem. Disappointing end to the season for the Cru considering what our goals for this season were but keep your heads up, it took us 5 tries to beat Trinity if I am not mistaken and right now it may seem as if Whitewater has our number, knows where we stay, our Social Security Number, our mailbox number, DNA information and pretty much everything you can think of about us but one day our day will come to beat them. But when all is said and done the Cru lost to a better team on Saturday.

[PA_wesleyfan]

Free Kick Caught or Recovered

ARTICLE 6. a. If a free kick is caught or recovered by a player of the receiving
team, the ball continues in play (Exceptions: Rules 4-1-3-g, 6-1-7, and 6-5-1 and
2). If caught or recovered by a player of the kicking team, the ball becomes dead
(A.R. 4-1-3-II and A.R. 6-1-6-I).

To answer your question Bill, and I haven't looked this up in the rule book, but I think they did away with the rule that you are penalized for illegal touching but allowed to kick again.  I'm pretty sure this was due to the fact that you used to be able to kick an onside kick, illegally touch it as the kicking team, get penalized, but still have the opportunity to try the onside kick again.

Once again this is just what I think, I have not looked this up in the rule book.

CruAlum 39

they did some tinkering with that rule.. There was a playoff game where the kicking team got 3 chances to kick because of illegal touching . Was a bad rule for sure..
 
one rule that does  not apply here but is interesting is that the kicker CANNOT be the first player to touch an onside kick

my younger son once tried an onside kick that actually went five  yards and arched back toward his kickoff team, but what happened last week is as odd as it gets

[CruAlum39]

I'm not so sure about that kicker can't be the first one to touch the ball rule.  Is it in the rule book.  Not saying you're wrong, but we used to have a surprise onside kick in high school that worked twice for us where everyone would break from a tight huddle, kicking the ball straight ahead, and the kicker was designed to recover it as the entire KO team ran past the ball to take out and opposing players.  Also saw it last season when I was scouting a high school football game.  Wonder if it is one of those rules that is not enforced or not widely known.  Maybe is is a college rule and not a high school rule.

[PA_wesleyfan]

  It may well be a college rule. my son was actually flagged for that but he was
kicking ,geesh almost ten years ago

[Llamaguy]

RooCru & CruAlum39 sent you a PM about Friday night. 

[bleedpurple]

Never too early to start thinking about next year.  I count 18 seniors from the UMHB website, 8 on defense and 9 on offense, plus a kicker.  It looks like heavy losses in both lines, 2 DE, 3 DT, 5 OL, plus the starting QB, TE, and FB. 

How does it look at the other schools?  HSU?

I thoroughly enjoyed this season.  Wish it was starting again in a few weeks.  Good luck to everyone in the off season.

I don't know if you are asking about ASC schools only, but since UMHB seems to play UWW every year, I thought I'd fill you in on UWW.

UWW has 6 seniors on their roster this year. 5 are starters. Lost are 2 OL, TE, NT, MLB. Everyone else is back. If you consider Anderson and Coppage a "two headed monster" at RB, this year's team has 7 "starters" that are either freshmen or sophomores.

[Toby Taff]

And on post-game review... The ball was not illegally touched.  It hit at the 41.  The Temple-daily Telegram has still shots from the game showing the kickoff and there's a Crusader player and an official standing between the 38 and 39 and the line judge standing on the 40 with the ball well in front of them. 

http://www.tdtnews.com/story/2008/12/16/54432

The article has a bit of a bitter tone, and has Fredenburg calling for instant replay, but also has him saying that the big difference in the game was the superior physicality of the Warhawks.  My favorite quote:

"We have to judge everything on the physicality of our guys," he said. "If there was a smidgen of difference in the game, that's what it was. I would see our running backs and our quarterbacks getting really hit. We tackled, but they really punished you.

[Bill McCabe]

And on post-game review... The ball was not illegally touched.  It hit at the 41.  The Temple-daily Telegram has still shots from the game showing the kickoff and there's a Crusader player and an official standing between the 38 and 39 and the line judge standing on the 40 with the ball well in front of them. 

http://www.tdtnews.com/story/2008/12/16/54432

The article has a bit of a bitter tone, and has Fredenburg calling for instant replay, but also has him saying that the big difference in the game was the superior physicality of the Warhawks.  My favorite quote:

"We have to judge everything on the physicality of our guys," he said. "If there was a smidgen of difference in the game, that's what it was. I would see our running backs and our quarterbacks getting really hit. We tackled, but they really punished you.

Toby, I heard the game tape shows the ball hits at the 41.  The official told Coach Fred that it hit at the 38.  With the score 12-10, that was a huge blown call.  Everyone, including the officials, were surprised by what happened with the football on that kick.