FB: American Southwest Conference

[Bill McCabe]

Just out of curiosity, why, this season, are there (relatively) so many UMHB fans criticizing the team and its coach? In the past, it seems to me that most [all?] Crusader folks assumed the team and coach walked on water ... or even sometimes floated above it. 

The old Cru fans don't realize how much harder it is to stop the run from a spread/pistol formation.

The Pistol gives teams another element to worry about. The fact that they can't pass very good is irrelevant. Defenses still have to respect the 3 WR set and can't load the box.

"The fact that we can't pass very good is irrelevant."  You've got to be kidding.

[Bill McCabe]

I'll debate that the I formation QBs were less accurate.  Let's look at the stats.

2003  96-183  52.5% 16 TDs 1 TD/11.4 atts  7 INTs  1 INT/26.1 atts
2004  151-267 56.6% 29 TDs 1 TD/9.2 atts   13 INTs 1 INT/20.5 atts
2005  97-176   55.1% 21 TDs 1 TD/8.3 atts   7 INTs 1 INT/25.1 atts
2006  102-192 53.1% 12 TDs  1 TD/16 atts   4 INTs  1 INT/48 atts
2007  111-213 52.1% 23 TDs  1 TD/9.3 atts  10 INTs 1 INT/21.3 atts
2008  120-220 54.5% 23 TDs  1 TD/9.5 atts  6 INTs   1 INT/36.7 atts
2009  112-184 60.89% 9 TDs  1 TD/20.4 atts 9 INTs  1 INT/20.4 atts
2010  131-260 50.4% 17 TDs  1 TD/15.2 atts 13 INTs I INT/20 atts
2011  63-95  66%      3 TDs   1 TD/31.7 atts   9 INTs 1 INT/10.6 atts

Give me the I formation offense any day. I'll take those passing results over the pistols every day.

[Bill McCabe]

It is funny how the CRU fans were critical of our inability to pass from our old offense and that we would never go far in the playoffs without a change in the offense.  Now we've changed and everyone is critical of the change!!!

It seems to me we've gone pretty far in the playoffs.  I know a lot of teams would like to duplicate our success.  I guess the proof will be in how far we go with the pistol.

[roocru]

Is it possible that there is another far-reaching positive in the move to the pistol?  While UMHB has been blessed with fine QB's over the years most have had some trouble with accuracy in throwing the football.  Welch, Padron and Fredenburg were all coaches kids who stayed calm under pressure but none were true passers.  Most high schools in Texas are now running spread offenses and throwing the ball all over the field.  Is it possible that the move to the pistol will attract more and better athletes at QB than their going to an offense in which the QB is more of a mechanic in the I and occasionally is asked to throw the ball. With this offense can we attract QB's like Feaster, Mullin, McLaughlin, etc......  What would this do to open up the running game and helping us to back to the Stagg?

Just something to think about.

Roocru, take a look at the TD passes when the Cru was in the I.  Lots of man to man coverage.  I wonder if this offense will be able to run the ball against a really good defense.  If we are forced to throw I think we are in trouble.

Bill, I definitely agree that the pistol is currently a work in progress and that we are currently throwing way too many interceptions.  My point is that UMHB could become a place where QB's really want to come.  A perennially ranked team, the best D3 facilities around, and now a chance to throw the ball as well might influence even better QB"s to consider coming to Belton.  Especially if they have had great success throwing it around in high school!

A lot of time the man to man coverage was due to opponents loading up the box.  Yes, we were successful but sometimes our running game did get shut down and made it difficult to win against other quality teams.  If we can keep the opponents from loading up the box by alignment alone, it will help us against those quality opponents.  I think Coach Fred has made the move not just to be successful now but to put us in a position to beat the likes of UWW in the future.

Opinions are like elbows, everyone has at least two of them.  You are fully entitled to yours and right now I don't have an argument against some of them.  I guess I am looking out a few years and what the possibilities of a great QB can add to our future success.

[Bill McCabe]

Roocru, great to hear from you.  Looking down the road, I hope we can recruit that kind of QB.  What about this year?  We started moving to the spread 2 years ago and our production has dipped.  When I saw Bailey as a freshman running the offense, I thought we had something really special.  Not out of the pistol.  The defense is really good this year and I hope we don't put a lot of pressure on them and let them get us the ball.

I did a little research on the pistol and there are 3 D 1 schools running it:  Indiana, Nevada and Ohio.  Just my opinion, if it is such a great offense, why aren't more teams running it.  Just a thought.

[crufootball]

Roocru, great to hear from you.  Looking down the road, I hope we can recruit that kind of QB.  What about this year?  We started moving to the spread 2 years ago and our production has dipped.  When I saw Bailey as a freshman running the offense, I thought we had something really special.  Not out of the pistol.  The defense is really good this year and I hope we don't put a lot of pressure on them and let them get us the ball.

I did a little research on the pistol and there are 3 D 1 schools running it:  Indiana, Nevada and Ohio.  Just my opinion, if it is such a great offense, why aren't more teams running it.  Just a thought.

Depending on your trust of Wikepedia, they have a slightly longer list of college and pro teams that use the pistol offense including ETBU.

The following American college football teams have used some aspect of the pistol offense:

Alabama (as of 2009)
Arizona State
Arkansas (as of 2010)
Baylor (as of 2009)
Boston College
Connecticut (as of 2009)           
FIU
Florida State
Hawaii
Illinois (as of 2010)
Indiana (as of 2009)
James Madison
Kansas
Louisville
LSU
Missouri
Monmouth
Nebraska
Nevada
North Dakota
Northern Arizona
Ohio
Ohio State
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Oregon
Portland State (as of 2010)
Purdue
Rutgers
San Jose State (as of 2010)
Syracuse
Tarleton State (as of 2009)
Texas Tech (as of 2010)
UCF
UCLA (as of 2010)
Virginia Tech
Washington (occasionally, 2010)
ETBU


The following NFL teams have used some aspect of the pistol offense:

Kansas City Chiefs
Miami Dolphins
Pittsburgh Steelers
Detroit Lions
Buffalo Bills

[Top Notch]

Just out of curiosity, why, this season, are there (relatively) so many UMHB fans criticizing the team and its coach? In the past, it seems to me that most [all?] Crusader folks assumed the team and coach walked on water ... or even sometimes floated above it. 

The old Cru fans don't realize how much harder it is to stop the run from a spread/pistol formation.

The Pistol gives teams another element to worry about. The fact that they can't pass very good is irrelevant. Defenses still have to respect the 3 WR set and can't load the box.

"The fact that we can't pass very good is irrelevant."  You've got to be kidding.

You do understand that Defenses are spread out against the Pistol, right? They are spread out because THEY HAVE TO. They can't NOT cover the WR's and TE. The QB can have a noodle arm and guess what...whether it's a pass or not, the D will be spread out. This allows UMHB to actually run the ball BETTER....Less people in the box= easier to run...You still with me Bill??

So now you take UMHB's great OL, stable of good RB's, and a good running QB, have the Defense spread out....and magically it's easier to run....Call me crazy but I think the UMHB coaching staff knows better than you....

[Bill McCabe]

Top Notch, If you think this offense performs better than what we ran in the past, I say you're not watching the same games.  3 TD passes and 9 INTs.  The worst in the past 10 years.  Scoring is down.  If running is equal why was it necessary to change?  To throw more INTs?

[roocru]

Just out of curiosity, why, this season, are there (relatively) so many UMHB fans criticizing the team and its coach? In the past, it seems to me that most [all?] Crusader folks assumed the team and coach walked on water ... or even sometimes floated above it. 

The old Cru fans don't realize how much harder it is to stop the run from a spread/pistol formation.

The Pistol gives teams another element to worry about. The fact that they can't pass very good is irrelevant. Defenses still have to respect the 3 WR set and can't load the box.

"The fact that we can't pass very good is irrelevant."  You've got to be kidding.

You do understand that Defenses are spread out against the Pistol, right? They are spread out because THEY HAVE TO. They can't NOT cover the WR's and TE. The QB can have a noodle arm and guess what...whether it's a pass or not, the D will be spread out. This allows UMHB to actually run the ball BETTER....Less people in the box= easier to run...You still with me Bill??

So now you take UMHB's great OL, stable of good RB's, and a good running QB, have the Defense spread out....and magically it's easier to run....Call me crazy but I think the UMHB coaching staff knows better than you....

Slow down Top Notch.  You are obviously new to the board and do not need to get tacky with Bill.  There are few more reliable and passionate Cru supporters than him.  We sat in the stands together for many years while our sons were playing side by side including the year we went to the Stagg Bowl.  He is fully entitled to his opinion whether you agree with him or  not.  That is the real beauty of these Boards that we can sometimes agree to disagree.  Pat Coleman has as his signature "Let's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect."  Please keep that in mind and your stay on this board will be much more fruitful!!!

[Warren Thompson]

Take this comment from an old fart for what it might/might not be worth: there are doubtless a good many workable football formations, some old, some new, some very old. E.g., the single-wing (with balanced or unbalanced line) isn't used by any colleges that I know of, though there are pockets of high school single-wing teams in Virginia and Michigan. It is a good formation, but it takes a great deal of intensive practice to perfect. * The same for Dutch Meyer's "TCU Spread." Yet when used by well-trained, disciplined players, such formations can be difficult to stop. I suspect the same holds, e.g., for the "Pistol" and other "new-fangled" offensive schemes.
____________________________

* Vince Lombardi allegedly once said that if his team ever faced the single-wing, they'd have their butts kicked (or words to that effect).

[Bill McCabe]

Warren, the spread offense incorporates a lot of the single wing philosophy with a heavier dose of the "forward pass." 

[Bill McCabe]

Just out of curiosity, why, this season, are there (relatively) so many UMHB fans criticizing the team and its coach? In the past, it seems to me that most [all?] Crusader folks assumed the team and coach walked on water ... or even sometimes floated above it. 

The old Cru fans don't realize how much harder it is to stop the run from a spread/pistol formation.

The Pistol gives teams another element to worry about. The fact that they can't pass very good is irrelevant. Defenses still have to respect the 3 WR set and can't load the box.

"The fact that we can't pass very good is irrelevant."  You've got to be kidding.

You do understand that Defenses are spread out against the Pistol, right? They are spread out because THEY HAVE TO. They can't NOT cover the WR's and TE. The QB can have a noodle arm and guess what...whether it's a pass or not, the D will be spread out. This allows UMHB to actually run the ball BETTER....Less people in the box= easier to run...You still with me Bill??

So now you take UMHB's great OL, stable of good RB's, and a good running QB, have the Defense spread out....and magically it's easier to run....Call me crazy but I think the UMHB coaching staff knows better than you....

Going back to 2003, this years offense is 5th in average rushing yards per game.  It is behind 2010 and 2009.  So I don't see a great improvement and it certainly isn't "better."  It is not like we couldn't run the ball before.

[Warren Thompson]

Warren, the spread offense incorporates a lot of the single wing philosophy with a heavier dose of the "forward pass." 

Yes, depending on the exact type of spread formation and whether it has a balanced or unbalanced line. Back in the Stone Age in Austin, I watched TCU's balanced-line spread do a number on the Longhorns. The Frogs had a very gifted back named Lindy Berry.

[crufootball]

Just out of curiosity, why, this season, are there (relatively) so many UMHB fans criticizing the team and its coach? In the past, it seems to me that most [all?] Crusader folks assumed the team and coach walked on water ... or even sometimes floated above it. 

The old Cru fans don't realize how much harder it is to stop the run from a spread/pistol formation.

The Pistol gives teams another element to worry about. The fact that they can't pass very good is irrelevant. Defenses still have to respect the 3 WR set and can't load the box.

"The fact that we can't pass very good is irrelevant."  You've got to be kidding.

You do understand that Defenses are spread out against the Pistol, right? They are spread out because THEY HAVE TO. They can't NOT cover the WR's and TE. The QB can have a noodle arm and guess what...whether it's a pass or not, the D will be spread out. This allows UMHB to actually run the ball BETTER....Less people in the box= easier to run...You still with me Bill??

So now you take UMHB's great OL, stable of good RB's, and a good running QB, have the Defense spread out....and magically it's easier to run....Call me crazy but I think the UMHB coaching staff knows better than you....

Going back to 2003, this years offense is 5th in average rushing yards per game.  It is behind 2010 and 2009.  So I don't see a great improvement and it certainly isn't "better."  It is not like we couldn't run the ball before.

You may be right on this issue Bill, however I think comparing our averages so far this year to whole years of the past is not realistic. UMHB has not played the historically weak teams of the ASC yet so their numbers should go up.

[LA Crusader]

Bring back full backs Turner and Vadell, smash mouth football.