FB: American Southwest Conference

[Toby Taff]

Wesley is Lready making the trip to Texas regularly to play a number of ASC schools. We need a work hole between Delaware and Texas to make travel easier

[Chess4Me]

Here's an interesting article on former UMHB standout, Jerrell Freeman: (http://indy.st/RlzUn8)

[Ron Boerger]

I see I'm not the first to suggest it, and unless I'm forgetting what Trinity and Austin's plans are, seems like affiliate football membership with the ASC is automatic if they want it and the ASC wants to keep its AQ. The two schools regain playoff AQ access, and conference awards, etc. and the ASC gets an eighth school to protect from another defector costing the AQ. The ASC has enough core members that adding affilates for football only would mean the ASC wouldn't have to lose its bid and wait two years to gain it back (hope I'm wording that correctly).

Only roadblock I see to that is if the schools don't want it. Austin left the ASC once already, but we'll see if they would rather be in a football conference and swallow their pride, or try to get eight random games a year. Trinity I'm guessing would welcome it since it scheduled UMHB, TLU and HPU this year ... fear of associating with not-like institutions or competitive disadvantages wouldn't seem to factor in. Games against teams in Texas make sense. Trinity and Austin would actually probably have some non-con dates open up if they went ASC.

100% speculation on my part. Makes too much sense.

If this were D-I, Wesley would join the ASC as an affiliate member for football. Geography, schmeography.

Couple of things to consider ... one, there will be four football teams in the SCAC next year as TLU joins and Southwestern starts up its program.  Bam, ten teams if they get together, makes scheduling easy but only one non-conf game available.  Two, all of the four schools, except SW, did leave the ASC or the TIAA, its predecessor, for whatever reasons. 

Access to a bid is only valuable if the schools are willing to devote the resources to winning one.  With the incredibly successful and remarkably well-funded* (for D3) UMHB program, I just don't see the SCAC schools being willing to do what it takes to compete at that level.   And if you have no chance to get a bid, all you've bought yourself is a solution to a scheduling problem and a fight for a Pool C ... the latter which you could have anyway without affiliating. 

* - yes, I recognize the irony in a Trinity alumnus making this statement, but TU doesn't spend any of that near-billion in the endowment on athletics, certainly not on facilities.

[Josh Bowerman]

Good job getting that for us five hours early!

No doubt. Breaking news is one of the things that's hard for us to do a lot of since all the writers and staffers have other jobs or business. It usually takes connections, time and work to break stuff. Good one here.

I see I'm not the first to suggest it, and unless I'm forgetting what Trinity and Austin's plans are, seems like affiliate football membership with the ASC is automatic if they want it and the ASC wants to keep its AQ. The two schools regain playoff AQ access, and conference awards, etc. and the ASC gets an eighth school to protect from another defector costing the AQ. The ASC has enough core members that adding affilates for football only would mean the ASC wouldn't have to lose its bid and wait two years to gain it back (hope I'm wording that correctly).

Only roadblock I see to that is if the schools don't want it. Austin left the ASC once already, but we'll see if they would rather be in a football conference and swallow their pride, or try to get eight random games a year. Trinity I'm guessing would welcome it since it scheduled UMHB, TLU and HPU this year ... fear of associating with not-like institutions or competitive disadvantages wouldn't seem to factor in. Games against teams in Texas make sense. Trinity and Austin would actually probably have some non-con dates open up if they went ASC.

100% speculation on my part. Makes too much sense.

If this were D-I, Wesley would join the ASC as an affiliate member for football. Geography, schmeography.

In my experience with the ASC, the perceived reason for the departure of Austin, Schreiner and TLU were for academic reasons. Those three schools had more similar admission standards to each other than that of the remaining ASC schools. Obviously, these types of decisions SHOULD trump what schools do with their athletic programs. With the SAA and USA South growing it will be interesting to see if the SCAC and ASC and possibly Trinity do to keep an AQ. However, I think (personal opinion) that several ASC schools will be looking to see if McMurry and MC can pull of their respective D2 moves well. Don't know how the Choctaws will structure their D2 move, but McMurry's model is a tuition discount / walk-on dependent model which has been successful for several existing D2's. There are rules as to how much financial aid an athlete through the NCAA Clearing House at the D2 level if they are a walk on. Thus creates more of a full-paying customer than general students who can tap in to federal, state and institutional aid. If you can create a program that attracts 50-100 walk-ons a year, revenue is generated to offset the athletic scholarships aka tuition discounts ... all this depends on each institution of course.

The other line of thought everyone needs to consider is that this is now the culture of college athletics. All this D1 conference jumping is trickling down in the "what have you done for me lately" society. I think we'll see more conference swaps, and institutional exits from various divisions and athletic conferences in the very near future.

Given my experience with the school and my historic connections to the ASC, I'd have a hard time envisioning Hardin-Simmons ever leaving Division III for Division II.  Of course, having said that, I would have said the same thing about McMurry.  Mississippi College surprises me less than McMurry's decision surprised me.

To Kyle's hypothosis, of the remaining schools it would seem to make the most sense for Sul Ross to explore Division II options, given their status as a public institution and the flexibility that affords them from a tuition/grant-in-aid perspective.  They'd potentially be good fits in the Lone Star Conference or even, perhaps, the Rocky Mountain Conference (It's only 300 miles farther from Alpine to Spearfish, SD than it is from Alpine to Jackson, MS). 

I suppose UMHB could be interested with their new stadium and all, but posts in this very forum by their previous President, Dr. Jerry Bawcomb, were dismissive of that idea.  Dr. Bawcomb is no longer President at UMHB, though, so that may or may not have any kind of impact on UMHB's institutional decision making process.

I also don't know much about LC, though (and I say this with no personal knowlege, just familiarity with his background and experience at Evangel) it's not hard for me to imagine Coach Dunn wanting to move up a notch on the competition ladder.  Complete speculation on my part, though.

What I do know is that MC leaving is bad news for the conference, and that the predominance of non-football playing ASC members is becoming a problem.  I hope the ASC leadership can figure it out.

I shall crawl back into my hole now.  Hope everyone is doing well.

[PA_wesleyfan]

Wesley is Lready making the trip to Texas regularly to play a number of ASC schools. We need a work hole between Delaware and Texas to make travel easier

Toby

If it wasn't so costly I believe Wesley would welcome playing .... I can't imagine what the cost of travel is this year for the Wolverines.I don't know if they are flying to Huntingdon or not but I know they are flying to Cal. later this season. They flew to UMHB and La.Co. and the later was not such a happy travel situation.

On another side , I don't know if CNU's addition to the CAC will give Wesley another sure game every year or not.... Frostburg wouldn't play them this year and they are in the CAC. Still a mess for Wesley . I will find out next week if Wesley has agreements to play home and home with UMHB,LA Co and Birm. So. Wesley has had agreements with other closer teams only to back out but I don't see that happening with these teams!!

[Ralph Turner]

One can almost argue the case that UMHB's success in the D-III model for football has "proverbially" killed the ASC.

Look who has left?

AC -- left for the SCAC
McMurry  -- went back to "D-II" where the school was prior to 1971, the last season in the Lone Star Conference.
Miss College  -- ditto and the Gulf South Conference
TLU -- left for the SCAC.

UDallas bailed on the ASC early in the last decade when they saw the conference members' "mission/vision" change from what it had been in the 1990's.  They wanted to get into the SCAC straightaway with their departure from the ASC.

If I were LeTourneau and Concordia, I would start talking to the SCAC. I don't see why CTX might not start football if they could get into the SCAC.

[Toby Taff]

Wesley is Lready making the trip to Texas regularly to play a number of ASC schools. We need a work hole between Delaware and Texas to make travel easier

Toby

If it wasn't so costly I believe Wesley would welcome playing .... I can't imagine what the cost of travel is this year for the Wolverines.I don't know if they are flying to Huntingdon or not but I know they are flying to Cal. later this season. They flew to UMHB and La.Co. and the later was not such a happy travel situation.

On another side , I don't know if CNU's addition to the CAC will give Wesley another sure game every year or not.... Frostburg wouldn't play them this year and they are in the CAC. Still a mess for Wesley . I will find out next week if Wesley has agreements to play home and home with UMHB,LA Co and Birm. So. Wesley has had agreements with other closer teams only to back out but I don't see that happening with these teams!!

my understanding is that UMHB Wesley is a home at home. Delaware this year and then Wesley will be the home opener for the new stadium next year. Should be another great game in a great new venue.

[Ralph Turner]

Status of the ASC, (which was 16 teams in May 2012).

McMurry gone to D-II
Miss College going to D-II

Centenary -- gone to the SCAC.

TLU  going to the SCAC
Schreiner going to the SCAC


ETBU -probably committed to the D-III model. Would ETBU go back to D-II? They came to the ASC from NAIA/D-II status.
HSU -- committed to D-III.  Has always been a successful program. National champion in women's soccer in 2010.
UMHB --  very strong program,; hi-profile football and building every "minor" sport that it can.

Thriving in the model
UTT  -- successful in D-III. The strongest school in spring sports in the conference.
UTD  -- doing well as a D-III. The model fits the school and the academic profile.

Geographic orphans
SRSU
UOzarks -- not many other schools that size in Arkansas.
LaCollege to some degree. Not much else in Louisiana.  Centenary is SCAC.
HPU  - on the southern perimeter of D-III.

More like the SCAC than the ASC?  Maybe
LeTU
CTX

I see the ASC stabilizing at 9-11 teams. I am  not sure who would be encouraged to move from the NAIA.

[Ron Boerger]

It would not surprise me to hear that the SCAC has made overtures to HSU; they and CTX would be the two schools I would think the conference would be most interested in.   That said, I can't see HSU moving unless the SCAC had some sort of football playoff solution, and even then they may be perfectly happy in the ASC.   They do play a lot of games against the Texas SCAC schools in non-conf already.

[@d3jason]

Here's an interesting article on former UMHB standout, Jerrell Freeman: (http://indy.st/RlzUn8)

He is mentioned this week's Sports Illustrated too by Maurice Jones-Drew.

[umhb2001]

Very interesting talk as this news about MC has me worried. I hope that things even out as they did for the Big12.

[Toby Taff]

21-7 Cru in the 1st qtr. If Sully's d doesn't figure something out this is going to be a high scoring affair

[crufootball]

21-7 Cru in the 1st qtr. If Sully's d doesn't figure something out this is going to be a high scoring affair

They still haven't figured it out but Sully is trying to keep up as it is 48-21 at halftime. LD already has nearly 300 yards of passing yards.

[Ron Boerger]

I can't get any updates from the Sully web site since half, but it might be the obscure smart phone I'm on.  Anyone??

[Ron Boerger]

The only link that seems to be updated is the 'scoring' one which now has UMHB up 69-21 late in the 3rd.