FB: American Southwest Conference

[umhb2001]

Policeman pulls you over for speeding. You've never been pulled over before. He takes your ID and runs your record...nothing. He comes back and asks you if you know you are speeding. You admit it and apologize.

Does the officer always give a ticket?
Do they give you the same penalty as the guy with multiple tickets?
Do they sometimes give warnings instead of a ticket?
Do you take the ticket, take the class, and get to remove the ticket and restore your driving record?

🤔

[umhb2001]

"would have" isn't really a defense.

Character witnesses may attest to as much.

[Toby Taff]

"would have" isn't really a defense.

ok, but the rule says a student a athlete can receive the benefit if it is generally available to other students. Would have matters. As would evidence of him doing similar for others over the years.

[Pat Coleman]

"would have" isn't really a defense.

ok, but the rule says a student a athlete can receive the benefit if it is generally available to other students. Would have matters. As would evidence of him doing similar for others over the years.

As Pete Fredenburg said last week: "The rules regarding impermissible benefits have some complexities."

[bleedpurple]

So...a football coach gets two old cars. One he lends out to players. The other he makes available to the study body (non-athletes) on a sign-out basis.

All good?

[SW66]

We all know Coach isn't afraid to make a tough decision on reprimanding a player or players if they break the rules so I am pretty sure he believed he was not breaking the rules by loaning the car. Bad judgement maybe, and probably should have listened to staff or checked it out beforehand but in no way do we think it was done to get the upper hand. Isn't he the coach who suspended Silvio Diaz the defensive player of the year before the WW game in 2013 that probably cost them the NC? Suspended players this year already and there have been others so we know he takes the rules seriously and this was a mistake on his part. We could always do what PSU did and sue the NCAA to get the wins reinstated.

[HSCTiger fan]

We all know Coach isn't afraid to make a tough decision on reprimanding a player or players if they break the rules so I am pretty sure he believed he was not breaking the rules by loaning the car. Bad judgement maybe, and probably should have listened to staff or checked it out beforehand but in no way do we think it was done to get the upper hand. Isn't he the coach who suspended Silvio Diaz the defensive player of the year before the WW game in 2013 that probably cost them the NC? Suspended players this year already and there have been others so we know he takes the rules seriously and this was a mistake on his part. We could always do what PSU did and sue the NCAA to get the wins reinstated.

The NCAA has  authority over recruiting, eligibility, financial aid, practice and competition. Its main purpose is making sure that its member institutions follow its rules.  The NCAA's authority did not extend to criminal acts perpetrated by someone who happens to be affiliated with an athletic team. That is why Paterno's wins were reinstated. Extra benefits (such as loaning a car) definitely fall under the NCAA's authority.

[SW66]

We all know Coach isn't afraid to make a tough decision on reprimanding a player or players if they break the rules so I am pretty sure he believed he was not breaking the rules by loaning the car. Bad judgement maybe, and probably should have listened to staff or checked it out beforehand but in no way do we think it was done to get the upper hand. Isn't he the coach who suspended Silvio Diaz the defensive player of the year before the WW game in 2013 that probably cost them the NC? Suspended players this year already and there have been others so we know he takes the rules seriously and this was a mistake on his part. We could always do what PSU did and sue the NCAA to get the wins reinstated.

The NCAA has  authority over recruiting, eligibility, financial aid, practice and competition. Its main purpose is making sure that its member institutions follow its rules.  The NCAA's authority did not extend to criminal acts perpetrated by someone who happens to be affiliated with an athletic team. That is why Paterno's wins were reinstated. Extra benefits (such as loaning a car) definitely fall under the NCAA's authority.

.....Yea, It was just sarcasm. We all know what the end result is gonna be and ya live and you learn from it. We all know who won the games and that will never change regardless of the NCAA and their rulings. But we also do realize that it may have been a rules violation but you can't convince us that it was a competitive advantage no matter how hard you try. So there isn't ever gonna be any wiggle room for any violation from the D3 COI because this ruling will only set the bar and you know what the outcome is if you get caught or self report no matter the rules infraction.

[Pat Coleman]

Playing an ineligible player is an advantage, though.

[jknezek]

Playing an ineligible player is an advantage, though.

Yeah. We've tried this point over and over. I don't think you are going to get them to agree.

[UMHB03]

Playing an ineligible player is an advantage, though.

Not enough of an advantage to justify vacating 29 wins, including the Stagg Bowl.

Nobody said that the violation should go unpunished, just that the penalty was grossly disproportionate to the offense. Just like if a kid steals a bag of chips from the store, and then returns it, he shouldn't be let off the hook just because he ultimately did the right thing, but he also shouldn't be sentenced to 10 years in prison.

[SW66]

Playing an ineligible player is an advantage, though.

...Depends on how you define advantage. Was it an advantage on the field? If so how? Did the player get better by driving the car? If he didn't drive said car would he have been a different player? If he would have gotten a ride with teammates everywhere but was still on the team then are you saying things would have been different? How do we know the next man up wasn't just as good as said player? Maybe advantage should be saved for recruiting players that would not have come to your school unless offered an incentive and when they came to said school it improved the program to the point of being better than their opponent. Most D3 athletes just don't quite make the cut for higher level athletics whether because of height,size or some variable, so an advantage I don't see it on the field which is where the games are being played.

[Toby Taff]

I wouldn't say playing the player was not an advantage. The player made some significant plays both seasons. 

[Pat Coleman]

Playing an ineligible player is an advantage, though.

Not enough of an advantage to justify vacating 29 wins, including the Stagg Bowl.

If the guy played in 29 games and was ineligible, that's the punishment, and has been consistently.

[Pat Coleman]

Did the player get better by driving the car?

Not in any way relevant.

Except, that if driving the car allowed him to get to classes and to work and therefore stay in school ...