FB: American Southwest Conference

[The Third Division]

Not to mention UMHB openly bans gay marriage.

[Ron Boerger]

The only reason I could see Schreiner or TLU heading back to the ASC (remember, they both left the ASC for the SCAC ten years ago this September) would be that the travel needed in the suddenly expanding SCAC is more than they want to deal with - similar to when the SAA split from the SCAC after it added a bunch of Texas schools.  Lyon joining would exacerbate the situation.  The SCAC presidents did had to approve the Ozarks/Concordia additions and would similarly have to approve Lyon. 

BUT ... TLU football already gets royally pounded by UMHB and HSU (at least).  Schreiner is just starting a program which would be down 50-0 after the first quarter against either of them.  Lyon traditionally hasn't been a strong program.  TLU, at least, will be able to compete for the SCAC's all-sports championship after Trinity and Southwestern (1st for 14 years straight/2nd most years) leave, which may or may not make a difference. 

[CruFrenzy]

Hilarious to see the trolls coming throwing shots at UMHB in the middle of May... Crusader football living in your heads rent free baby <3

[Etchglow]

The only reason I could see Schreiner or TLU heading back to the ASC (remember, they both left the ASC for the SCAC ten years ago this September) would be that the travel needed in the suddenly expanding SCAC is more than they want to deal with - similar to when the SAA split from the SCAC after it added a bunch of Texas schools.  Lyon joining would exacerbate the situation.  The SCAC presidents did had to approve the Ozarks/Concordia additions and would similarly have to approve Lyon. 

BUT ... TLU football already gets royally pounded by UMHB and HSU (at least).  Schreiner is just starting a program which would be down 50-0 after the first quarter against either of them.  Lyon traditionally hasn't been a strong program.  TLU, at least, will be able to compete for the SCAC's all-sports championship after Trinity and Southwestern (1st for 14 years straight/2nd most years) leave, which may or may not make a difference.

Yeah, I don't really see TLU coming back. 

[crufootball]

The only reason I could see Schreiner or TLU heading back to the ASC (remember, they both left the ASC for the SCAC ten years ago this September) would be that the travel needed in the suddenly expanding SCAC is more than they want to deal with - similar to when the SAA split from the SCAC after it added a bunch of Texas schools.  Lyon joining would exacerbate the situation.  The SCAC presidents did had to approve the Ozarks/Concordia additions and would similarly have to approve Lyon. 

BUT ... TLU football already gets royally pounded by UMHB and HSU (at least).  Schreiner is just starting a program which would be down 50-0 after the first quarter against either of them.  Lyon traditionally hasn't been a strong program.  TLU, at least, will be able to compete for the SCAC's all-sports championship after Trinity and Southwestern (1st for 14 years straight/2nd most years) leave, which may or may not make a difference.

Yeah, I don't really see TLU coming back.

Don't think its going to happen either but I didn't see Trinity and Southwestern leaving the SCAC either.

Gonna be a bumpy ride.

[TLU02SA]

The only reason I could see Schreiner or TLU heading back to the ASC (remember, they both left the ASC for the SCAC ten years ago this September) would be that the travel needed in the suddenly expanding SCAC is more than they want to deal with - similar to when the SAA split from the SCAC after it added a bunch of Texas schools.  Lyon joining would exacerbate the situation.  The SCAC presidents did had to approve the Ozarks/Concordia additions and would similarly have to approve Lyon. 

BUT ... TLU football already gets royally pounded by UMHB and HSU (at least).  Schreiner is just starting a program which would be down 50-0 after the first quarter against either of them.  Lyon traditionally hasn't been a strong program.  TLU, at least, will be able to compete for the SCAC's all-sports championship after Trinity and Southwestern (1st for 14 years straight/2nd most years) leave, which may or may not make a difference.

Yeah, I don't really see TLU coming back.

Don't think its going to happen either but I didn't see Trinity and Southwestern leaving the SCAC either.

Gonna be a bumpy ride.

I would not say never. I could see TLU making this move but, given the current circumstances, I would question a move back to the ASC. TLU has a good working relationship with ASC schools, including and especially UMHB.  They schedule each other in every sport they both sponsor and TLU just started up an Athletics and Tumbling team due to the recent success of that sport at UMHB and ETBU. The ASC helped TLU out in its transition to DIII in 1999 and when SCAC football dissolved several years ago. There is a lot of good will built up there. 

I also note that TLU's athletic website has been completely silent about all the recent moves the SCAC has made, including the announcement of the return of football.  That may simply be what the current communication director considers newsworthy or maybe it means more. I don't know. The other side of this coin is that SCAC membership voted to approve the addition of McMurry, Ozarks, Concordia and Lyons (football only). It seems obvious now that Trinity and SW were not in favor of these additions. My suspicion is it takes a super-majority to approve extending an invite to a new member, so it is likely TLU was in favor of these moves. Again, I don't know and this is just speculation on my part.

The issue I see is whether TLU is willing to put all of its athletic programs into a conference that is not stable at the moment. For a move by TLU to the ASC to make sense, there has to be another football program coming with them.  I see someone suggested Schreiner but I am not 100% convinced that football is going to happen at Schreiner.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[QB11111]

There are a couple of guys on the D2 message board who (without naming names) have implied that there may (or may not be) 2 current D3 schools that are considering making a jump to D2, could TLU be one of those?

[TLU02SA]

There are a couple of guys on the D2 message board who (without naming names) have implied that there may (or may not be) 2 current D3 schools that are considering making a jump to D2, could TLU be one of those?

A move to DII by TLU would surprise me. I don't think TLU is interested in moving back to DII and athletic scholarships.

[crufootball]

There are a couple of guys on the D2 message board who (without naming names) have implied that there may (or may not be) 2 current D3 schools that are considering making a jump to D2, could TLU be one of those?

At this point I hope every school president and AD in the ASC has at least considered D2, with the state of the ASC it would be foolish to just think this is going to blow over without some deals being made.

[UMHB03]

Looks like D2 or NAIA may be the only options for the Baptist Four.

UMHB and HSU could be quality additions to the Lone Star Conference. POSSIBLY ETBU. HPU might be screwed and have to resort to the Sooner Athletic Conference in NAIA.

[SagatagSam]

What is the benefit of moving to D2?
Increased cost for (roughly) the same exposure as D3?

It seems like the number of D2 football schools is dwindling because they are either making the jump to FCS for the big(ger) money, or dropping to D3 to eliminate the expense of athletic scholarships. At least that's the view from the upper midwest.

[Bmo]

If competitive balance is the primary factor in what's happening with the ASC, it would being interesting to know what changes might have been implemented to alleviate that issue some years back.  Maybe conference-imposed mandates could have helped.  Some ideas:  Roster limits, in-conference transfer restrictions,  GPA requirements.  I'm sure there are others. 

[TLU02SA]

If competitive balance is the primary factor in what's happening with the ASC, it would being interesting to know what changes might have been implemented to alleviate that issue some years back.  Maybe conference-imposed mandates could have helped.  Some ideas:  Roster limits, in-conference transfer restrictions,  GPA requirements.  I'm sure there are others.

Really interesting question. I suspect that such mandates would be controversial with schools looking to compete for national championships not wanting the mandates and schools looking for competitive balance in favor of such mandates. Even if those mandates are approved (or not approved), you would see conference movement with schools trying to locate a conference with similar competitive ambitions.

At the D3 level, can you have in-conference transfer restrictions? From a legal standpoint, such a mandate seems suspect.

Another mandate would be the minimum number of hours student is enrolled in per semester to participate in varsity sports. [Modifying to state that NCAA rules probably already require a minimum hour requirement.]

[UMHB03]

What is the benefit of moving to D2?
Increased cost for (roughly) the same exposure as D3?

It seems like the number of D2 football schools is dwindling because they are either making the jump to FCS for the big(ger) money, or dropping to D3 to eliminate the expense of athletic scholarships. At least that's the view from the upper midwest.

The only alternative to D2, it appears, would be staying in a 4-team (non-AQ) conference where each school would have to find 7 non-conference football opponents every year. A move to D2 would be one of necessity rather than outright benefit. Teams in our neck of the woods do not have as many options as schools in most other parts of the country. The only other conferences that would be geographically viable for the four schools in question would be the SAC or the SCAC, and neither of those are options due to the fact that most of the programs in those conferences can't/won't compete with the likes of UMHB and Hardin-Simmons or the fact that they don't like the Christian values of the Baptist schools.... or possibly both.

[Ron Boerger]

What is the benefit of moving to D2?
Increased cost for (roughly) the same exposure as D3?

It seems like the number of D2 football schools is dwindling because they are either making the jump to FCS for the big(ger) money, or dropping to D3 to eliminate the expense of athletic scholarships. At least that's the view from the upper midwest.

The only alternative to D2, it appears, would be staying in a 4-team (non-AQ) conference where each school would have to find 7 non-conference football opponents every year. A move to D2 would be one of necessity rather than outright benefit. Teams in our neck of the woods do not have as many options as schools in most other parts of the country. The only other conferences that would be geographically viable for the four schools in question would be the SAC or the SCAC, and neither of those are options due to the fact that most of the programs in those conferences can't/won't compete with the likes of UMHB and Hardin-Simmons or the fact that they don't like the Christian values of the Baptist schools.... or possibly both.

The SCAC tried the four-team thing for a few years and played a double-round robin schedule due to the difficulty lining up OOC games.  Nobody was terribly happy about the result.  I have a "SCAC LAST GAME" challenge coin somewhere as a result.

There are also (perceived or actual) differences in academic standards which can contribute to a decision to change conference affiliations.