FB: American Southwest Conference

[sigma one]

I find the discussion of enrollments interesting, but not terribly enlightening.  There has long been a debate in D3 about whether the large Wisconsin state universities have a significant advantage over smaller schools.  (As an aside, I think the success of the WIAC has more to do with the lack of D2 and NAIA schools in Wisconsin, thereby freeing up talent which would probably go elsewhere while staying close to home.)
     Using D3FB enrollment numbers for 2022, I took the top 25 teams in the final poll and looked at their enrollments.  Of the final top 25, 15 had enrollments below 3000 students.  Nine of those were under 2000, including 6 of the top 10.  I'm thinking that it's more the emphasis schools place of football that makes the most difference.  A significant number of last year's top 25 are at or near the top of D3 yearly. Then, there are always a few who finish at the top primarily because for a year or two they have really good players--but not consistently enough year after year to compete with the best in D3.
      This is just devil's advocate stuff, but I believe both MH-B and HSU would be competitive from or near the beginning of their association with the other Texas schools.  MH-B has finished in the top 5 of the standings for many years, and won several championships.  HSU battles them, and they are generally in the top 15.
Maybe I don't understand the emphasis the Texas schools place on football, but again I don't think enrollment would be a significant hurdle to overcome. 
   

[Riley Zayas]

I find the discussion of enrollments interesting, but not terribly enlightening.  There has long been a debate in D3 about whether the large Wisconsin state universities have a significant advantage over smaller schools.  (As an aside, I think the success of the WIAC has more to do with the lack of D2 and NAIA schools in Wisconsin, thereby freeing up talent which would probably go elsewhere while staying close to home.)
     Using D3FB enrollment numbers for 2022, I took the top 25 teams in the final poll and looked at their enrollments.  Of the final top 25, 15 had enrollments below 3000 students.  Nine of those were under 2000, including 6 of the top 10.  I'm thinking that it's more the emphasis schools place of football that makes the most difference.  A significant number of last year's top 25 are at or near the top of D3 yearly. Then, there are always a few who finish at the top primarily because for a year or two they have really good players--but not consistently enough year after year to compete with the best in D3.
      This is just devil's advocate stuff, but I believe both MH-B and HSU would be competitive from or near the beginning of their association with the other Texas schools.  MH-B has finished in the top 5 of the standings for many years, and won several championships.  HSU battles them, and they are generally in the top 15.
Maybe I don't understand the emphasis the Texas schools place on football, but again I don't think enrollment would be a significant hurdle to overcome. 

Very much agree. Anyone who has seen Crusader Stadium (at UMHB) knows that the emphasis is there. Sure, UMHB's enrollment hovers around 3,000 (not including grad students) but it's the emphasis on athletics in general that will allow them to be competitive at D2 if they go that route. Enrollment may have something to do with financial budgets for athletics, but by no means will any one of the Baptist 4 automatically struggle in D2 purely because they're in the bottom half of enrollment compared to other schools in the league.

And I totally agree with you on the WIAC schools. Having mostly D3s there rather than a mix of D2/D3/NAIA, (and having fairly affordable tuition rates) brings a lot of kids to the D3 level who have offers from D2s in Minnesota, Illinois, and Iowa, but would rather stay close to home.

[TheChucker]

I find the discussion of enrollments interesting, but not terribly enlightening.  There has long been a debate in D3 about whether the large Wisconsin state universities have a significant advantage over smaller schools.  (As an aside, I think the success of the WIAC has more to do with the lack of D2 and NAIA schools in Wisconsin, thereby freeing up talent which would probably go elsewhere while staying close to home.)
     Using D3FB enrollment numbers for 2022, I took the top 25 teams in the final poll and looked at their enrollments.  Of the final top 25, 15 had enrollments below 3000 students.  Nine of those were under 2000, including 6 of the top 10.  I'm thinking that it's more the emphasis schools place of football that makes the most difference.  A significant number of last year's top 25 are at or near the top of D3 yearly. Then, there are always a few who finish at the top primarily because for a year or two they have really good players--but not consistently enough year after year to compete with the best in D3.
      This is just devil's advocate stuff, but I believe both MH-B and HSU would be competitive from or near the beginning of their association with the other Texas schools.  MH-B has finished in the top 5 of the standings for many years, and won several championships.  HSU battles them, and they are generally in the top 15.
Maybe I don't understand the emphasis the Texas schools place on football, but again I don't think enrollment would be a significant hurdle to overcome. 

Very much agree. Anyone who has seen Crusader Stadium (at UMHB) knows that the emphasis is there. Sure, UMHB's enrollment hovers around 3,000 (not including grad students) but it's the emphasis on athletics in general that will allow them to be competitive at D2 if they go that route. Enrollment may have something to do with financial budgets for athletics, but by no means will any one of the Baptist 4 automatically struggle in D2 purely because they're in the bottom half of enrollment compared to other schools in the league.

And I totally agree with you on the WIAC schools. Having mostly D3s there rather than a mix of D2/D3/NAIA, (and having fairly affordable tuition rates) brings a lot of kids to the D3 level who have offers from D2s in Minnesota, Illinois, and Iowa, but would rather stay close to home.

The Upper Midwest has an interesting dynamic. Wisconsin has no D2 football schools but also no NAIA and only one D1 (helps D3). Iowa only has 1 D2 (Upper Iowa which would probably be better off NAIA) but the NAIA is strong in Iowa. I believe Illinois only has 1 D2 football school in Quincy U and only 4 NAIA but several D1 schools. Meanwhile, Minnesota is chock full of D2 schools, no NAIA, and a lot of D3 schools with only a very small handful actually being competitive.

Meanwhile, TX is big enough that it has all the football divisions but it surprises me a little that there's only 4 current D2 football schools. I just assumed there were more before looking at this.

[Pat Coleman]

I know The Chucker knows this, but a good number of Wisconsin kids go take those partial scholarships in the D-II schools in Minnesota.

[TheChucker]

I know The Chucker knows this, but a good number of Wisconsin kids go take those partial scholarships in the D-II schools in Minnesota.

Yeah. Seems like I've seen plenty of Illinois kids on NSIC rosters too; at least from the south and western part of the conference. Wisconsin's in-state tuition reciprocity with Minnesota makes it a no-brainer to pull those kids over.

[awadelewis]

Meanwhile, TX is big enough that it has all the football divisions but it surprises me a little that there's only 4 current D2 football schools. I just assumed there were more before looking at this.

Most of the schools that were D2 in TX have moved into either D-1 FBS or D-1 FCS ranks.     Texas-A&M Commerce (East TX State) moving to the Southland was one of the last original members of the Lone Star Conference to make the move to D-1.

[Riley Zayas]

Meanwhile, TX is big enough that it has all the football divisions but it surprises me a little that there's only 4 current D2 football schools. I just assumed there were more before looking at this.

Most of the schools that were D2 in TX have moved into either D-1 FBS or D-1 FCS ranks.     Texas-A&M Commerce (East TX State) moving to the Southland was one of the last original members of the Lone Star Conference to make the move to D-1.

True...D2 is a small division, and there's a lure to D1, obviously. Technically 5 D2s in Texas with football (UTPB, TAMUK, WT A&M, MSU, ASU) but TheChucker made a great point in that it feels like there should be more D2 football programs here. Honestly, D2 gives you a much better chance to win a national title than D1.

[BSCpanthers]

There is no benefit to be DII over DI. To move up you don't add a lot of expenses but you do start making more money from conference affiliate to paid game in basketball and football. DII is a dying division.

[UMHB03]

There is no benefit to be DII over DI. To move up you don't add a lot of expenses but you do start making more money from conference affiliate to paid game in basketball and football. DII is a dying division.

There's no benefit to D2 unless you have no viable conference in D3. The benefit to D2 for schools like UMHB and HSU would be the opportunity to compete in a conference with more than 4 members, which meets the NCAA requirement for automatic playoff qualification, as well as not having to find 7 non-conference opponents (when they've had a hard time finding 2-3 non-conference opponents in recent years). If the opportunity to be in a stable conference existed for us in D3 then I agree it would be a better option, but in a couple of years that won't be the case.

[Riley Zayas]

There is no benefit to be DII over DI. To move up you don't add a lot of expenses but you do start making more money from conference affiliate to paid game in basketball and football. DII is a dying division.

There's no benefit to D2 unless you have no viable conference in D3. The benefit to D2 for schools like UMHB and HSU would be the opportunity to compete in a conference with more than 4 members, which meets the NCAA requirement for automatic playoff qualification, as well as not having to find 7 non-conference opponents (when they've had a hard time finding 2-3 non-conference opponents in recent years). If the opportunity to be in a stable conference existed for us in D3 then I agree it would be a better option, but in a couple of years that won't be the case.

I think D3 will always be the better option. And yes, going D1 over D2 makes a lot of sense financially. BUT the Southland Conference is not all that different from the LSC in my opinion. That said, D2 is a shrinking division and is not a long-term solution. My thought would be that, for UMHB, they go D2 (because they are required to in moving up...they cannot just go straight to D1) and then in 5-6 years, begin a transition to D1. Might be a long stretch of no NCAA Tournament appearances (because it'd be almost a decade of transitioning) but the money is there and the scholarship structure would work fine. And I think that is ultimately where UMHB would like to end up.

[The Mole]

Just picked up Lindy's College Football magazine on Friday. Sloppy work by the writer (pages 262-263) who is the sports editor for the Meadville Tribune (near Erie PA home of the Allegheny Gators in the PAC). Ranked Hardin-Simmons 7th overall and said "The Royals return a balanced offensive attack." When did they change the nickname ? 
Furthermore, Trinity TX is ranked 10th overall. That is not the issue, the blurb read "Trinity joins the Southern Athletic Association and has a tough schedule." Lastly, in the article write up he says "Mary Hardin-Baylor has a tough non-conference schedule with matchups against Wisconsin-Whitewater and Wisconsin River-Falls. In conference, the Cru will need to battle Hardin-Simmons and Trinity." Are they in the SAA or the ASC? C'mon, man. Last sentence in the article : "Dark horse teams are Bethel, Wisconsin-Whitewater and Carnegie Mellon." I know as a "homer" he is picking a PAC team, but do the Tartans have a chance of winning a national title? And when is UWW not a contender?

Very frustrating to see simple fact checking not done. Know your audience and try a little harder. And to Lindy's: get a  subject matter expert to write your preview, not a sports editor that admirably focuses on high school sports but is clearly out of depth on D3 football.

[Riley Zayas]

Just picked up Lindy's College Football magazine on Friday. Sloppy work by the writer (pages 262-263) who is the sports editor for the Meadville Tribune (near Erie PA home of the Allegheny Gators in the PAC). Ranked Hardin-Simmons 7th overall and said "The Royals return a balanced offensive attack." When did they change the nickname ? 
Furthermore, Trinity TX is ranked 10th overall. That is not the issue, the blurb read "Trinity joins the Southern Athletic Association and has a tough schedule." Lastly, in the article write up he says "Mary Hardin-Baylor has a tough non-conference schedule with matchups against Wisconsin-Whitewater and Wisconsin River-Falls. In conference, the Cru will need to battle Hardin-Simmons and Trinity." Are they in the SAA or the ASC? C'mon, man. Last sentence in the article : "Dark horse teams are Bethel, Wisconsin-Whitewater and Carnegie Mellon." I know as a "homer" he is picking a PAC team, but do the Tartans have a chance of winning a national title? And when is UWW not a contender?

Very frustrating to see simple fact checking not done. Know your audience and try a little harder. And to Lindy's: get a  subject matter expert to write your preview, not a sports editor that admirably focuses on high school sports but is clearly out of depth on D3 football.

Wow...I'll have to check that out when I get a chance to pick up a copy. It's disappointing how little attention they put towards D3. Like, why even include it if you're not going to even fact-check it? And if they wanted to hire a writer to do something on D3, I know there are countless individuals who contribute nationally to D3football.com who could easily put out something 100x better and would gladly do so if given the opportunity. Just frustrating all the way around.

[crufootball]

Just picked up Lindy's College Football magazine on Friday. Sloppy work by the writer (pages 262-263) who is the sports editor for the Meadville Tribune (near Erie PA home of the Allegheny Gators in the PAC). Ranked Hardin-Simmons 7th overall and said "The Royals return a balanced offensive attack." When did they change the nickname ? 
Furthermore, Trinity TX is ranked 10th overall. That is not the issue, the blurb read "Trinity joins the Southern Athletic Association and has a tough schedule." Lastly, in the article write up he says "Mary Hardin-Baylor has a tough non-conference schedule with matchups against Wisconsin-Whitewater and Wisconsin River-Falls. In conference, the Cru will need to battle Hardin-Simmons and Trinity." Are they in the SAA or the ASC? C'mon, man. Last sentence in the article : "Dark horse teams are Bethel, Wisconsin-Whitewater and Carnegie Mellon." I know as a "homer" he is picking a PAC team, but do the Tartans have a chance of winning a national title? And when is UWW not a contender?

Very frustrating to see simple fact checking not done. Know your audience and try a little harder. And to Lindy's: get a  subject matter expert to write your preview, not a sports editor that admirably focuses on high school sports but is clearly out of depth on D3 football.

Wow...I'll have to check that out when I get a chance to pick up a copy. It's disappointing how little attention they put towards D3. Like, why even include it if you're not going to even fact-check it? And if they wanted to hire a writer to do something on D3, I know there are countless individuals who contribute nationally to D3football.com who could easily put out something 100x better and would gladly do so if given the opportunity. Just frustrating all the way around.

Those magazines are routinely not good at best, last year they said UMHB was having to replace Kyle King, Brandon Jordan and KJ Miller all of which were part of the team and for the most part there was no doubt about their return. 

[Ron Boerger]

Those of us who have been around a while *really* miss the annual D3football Kickoff that came out every year around this time (or August).  But the lack of traffic to the boards and related difficulty in promoting it to the dispersed fan base probably was a contributor to the economics not working out and its subsequent demise.   

Oh, yeah, there was that pandemic thingie too. 

[Ron Boerger]

DCTF's Cory Hogue posted an interview with new ASC Commish David Flores today:  https://www.texasfootball.com/article/2023/07/03/q-a-with-new-asc-commissioner

Nothing terribly earth-shattering but he's only been on the job a couple weeks.